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Old 05-31-2007, 05:05 PM   #21
spartanwarrior
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Originally Posted by EIAlfonso View Post
My start up is very similar, pretty warm here right now so it hesitates very little, for a sec or two and then, smooth. This only happens when the car is very cold usually when I pull my car out of the garage in the morning, then it stats up very smooth the rest of the day.

Does not having the stock headers increase this occurrence? Does the back pressure of the stock headers improve the start up performance or maybe the stock cats heat up the 02 sensors quicker?

Spartan on you on the stock exhaust manifold?

Edit: just saw your sigs, it looks like we are both using headers.
Yes i have headers, but when i had the vortech unit on it always started perfectly winter and summer
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Old 06-03-2007, 09:04 AM   #22
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Spartan,

I suspect you might have a FPR back leak, have you verified your fuel pressure to make sure it does not drop all the way to 0 after the car has been parked for a while? It sounds to me like you do not have full fuel pressure during the first 2-3 seconds and after then it is normal. It can also be an injector slighly leaking through to the cylinder. Do check the fuel pressure and make sure it does not drop to 0 after a while.

If it does it is not harmful in any way, it just means that it takes a few seconds for the fuel pressure system to pressurize itself again. To correct this problem you can try to replace the FPR first, and if it does not help I can send you a new set of injectors.
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Old 06-03-2007, 09:20 AM   #23
spartanwarrior
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Spartan,

I suspect you might have a FPR back leak, have you verified your fuel pressure to make sure it does not drop all the way to 0 after the car has been parked for a while? It sounds to me like you do not have full fuel pressure during the first 2-3 seconds and after then it is normal. It can also be an injector slighly leaking through to the cylinder. Do check the fuel pressure and make sure it does not drop to 0 after a while.

If it does it is not harmful in any way, it just means that it takes a few seconds for the fuel pressure system to pressurize itself again. To correct this problem you can try to replace the FPR first, and if it does not help I can send you a new set of injectors.
Ok i will do that, do they check that by putting something in the exaust, does the car need to be cold to check it, and if i do have a fuel leak how is it fixed thanks for looking Asbjorn.
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Last edited by spartanwarrior; 06-03-2007 at 09:26 AM.
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Old 06-03-2007, 09:54 AM   #24
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Ok i will do that, do they check that by putting something in the exaust, does the car need to be cold to check it, and if i do have a fuel leak how is it fixed thanks for looking Asbjorn.
You most likely do not have an external fuel leak, you might have an internal fuel leak meaning the fuel pressure eiteher leaks back into the tank (bad FPR) when the engine is shut down for a while or it can be that one of the injectors do not fully seal internally meaning the remaining fuel pressure after stop will slowly leak into one of the cylinders resulting in the need for a few seconds of operation to rebuild the fuel pressure and even firing. The way to check is to hook up a FPR to the connection on the fuel rail and park the car, it should read ~42PSI when you stop and it will gradually decrease down to ~10-30PSI. If it drops all the way to 0 after a few hours then there is a slight FPR or injector leak which is the root of the initial start hickup problem.
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Old 06-03-2007, 02:57 PM   #25
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You most likely do not have an external fuel leak, you might have an internal fuel leak meaning the fuel pressure eiteher leaks back into the tank (bad FPR) when the engine is shut down for a while or it can be that one of the injectors do not fully seal internally meaning the remaining fuel pressure after stop will slowly leak into one of the cylinders resulting in the need for a few seconds of operation to rebuild the fuel pressure and even firing. The way to check is to hook up a FPR to the connection on the fuel rail and park the car, it should read ~42PSI when you stop and it will gradually decrease down to ~10-30PSI. If it drops all the way to 0 after a few hours then there is a slight FPR or injector leak which is the root of the initial start hickup problem.
Ok i will look into it but it only starts like that when the car sits for a whole day on cold start if it sits for like 6 hours it will start normal thanks again and i will let you know.
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Old 06-03-2007, 11:30 PM   #26
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i mean i can live with the first few seconds rough idle...like a race car warming up... sounds really mean.

it's just when it's daily driving where it studders and lags where i wouldn't want that happening.

hey,, i've owned an e34 m5, and talk about a rough idle no matter WHAT!
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Old 06-03-2007, 11:48 PM   #27
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Ok i will look into it but it only starts like that when the car sits for a whole day on cold start if it sits for like 6 hours it will start normal thanks again and i will let you know.
I believe what he is saying is that the leak is so small that it takes a few hours for it to go to near zero pressure.

Kind of like a tire with a slow leak, if you keep filling it up all day it works fine, you leave it overnight or for a few days you get back and it's flat.
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Old 06-06-2007, 02:21 AM   #28
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The TS2+ application is a little more sensitive to initial 100% smooth running due to the considerably more aggressive cams. We are working on a new TS2+ software revision with slighty altered cam timing during startups trying to make it just as smooth as a stock cammed 330 for the first few seconds as well.
Asbjorn,

Any update as to when the software revision will be completed?


Thanks
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Old 06-09-2007, 03:07 AM   #29
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Does anyone send ECU to ESS to exchange update version?
I will send my ECU to ESS.

I ask ESS to recheck wheter my ECU state is right.
,and to analyze to see what errors/adaptations are present.
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Old 06-09-2007, 04:24 AM   #30
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Spartan,

I suspect you might have a FPR back leak, have you verified your fuel pressure to make sure it does not drop all the way to 0 after the car has been parked for a while? It sounds to me like you do not have full fuel pressure during the first 2-3 seconds and after then it is normal. It can also be an injector slighly leaking through to the cylinder. Do check the fuel pressure and make sure it does not drop to 0 after a while.

If it does it is not harmful in any way, it just means that it takes a few seconds for the fuel pressure system to pressurize itself again. To correct this problem you can try to replace the FPR first, and if it does not help I can send you a new set of injectors.
Ok well this is kind of wierd but here it goes,, my mechanic let me borrow his fuel pressure gauge i took it home and after putting my car in the garage i took the engine cover on top of the fuel rail off, then i unscrewed the fuel cap off and also unscrewed the valve as well, then fuel sprayed out so i installed the fuel pressure gauge and started my car and it went to 3.2 bar, then shut the car off and it dropped to 2.5 so i left it like that over night, well i went to check it in the morning and it read 0.5 bar, so no leaks, i started my car with the fuel gauge still installed and it started perfectly just like stock (wierd) after i took the fuel pressure gauge off and put everything back together again, now ever since my car is starting perfectly this is so wierd can anybody figure out any reason since the only thing i did was just hook the fuel gauge up. Maybe to the others that have this problem try it and see if it works, Oh one more thing another way to see if you have any vacume leaks is if you have a boost gauge installed, when it is at idle if it reads -0.6 bar there are no leaks
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Old 06-09-2007, 07:29 AM   #31
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so far not experiencing any start-up issues. My car has always from day one brand new been a little hesitent on moving too quickly after initial start-up.

I had the cams and headers installed yesterday (didnt feel like tackling them right now, so gave in and paid someone) so I have not experienced a cold start with that configuration. I will let you know what I find.

Stuart
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Old 06-09-2007, 08:45 AM   #32
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Ok well this is kind of wierd but here it goes,, my mechanic let me borrow his fuel pressure gauge i took it home and after putting my car in the garage i took the engine cover on top of the fuel rail off, then i unscrewed the fuel cap off and also unscrewed the valve as well, then fuel sprayed out so i installed the fuel pressure gauge and started my car and it went to 3.2 bar, then shut the car off and it dropped to 2.5 so i left it like that over night, well i went to check it in the morning and it read 0.5 bar, so no leaks, i started my car with the fuel gauge still installed and it started perfectly just like stock (wierd) after i took the fuel pressure gauge off and put everything back together again, now ever since my car is starting perfectly this is so wierd can anybody figure out any reason since the only thing i did was just hook the fuel gauge up. Maybe to the others that have this problem try it and see if it works, Oh one more thing another way to see if you have any vacume leaks is if you have a boost gauge installed, when it is at idle if it reads -0.6 bar there are no leaks
Very interesting! Did you purge the fuel rail with a pressurised air source first? Where did the fuel spray out of ?
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Old 06-09-2007, 10:03 AM   #33
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Very interesting! Did you purge the fuel rail with a pressurised air source first? Where did the fuel spray out of ?
No air source at all,,, it sprayed out of the valve i took off on the fuel rail,, today when i started it was almost perfect, nothing like it used to do
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Old 06-10-2007, 10:43 PM   #34
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If you are unable to scan the DME locally you are welcome so send it in to us for analyzing to see what errors/adaptations are present, but most likely you have a leak somewhere, try the start spray trick and listen for changes in engine sound.

We have also made some changes in our current software revisions (both MS43 and MS45) focusing on more start up strength, making the cars less voulnerable to unsmooth operation before the O2's kick in. The initial TS software revisions was made as lean as possible during startup to minimize cold start emissions, but that also makes them more voulnerable to car variances and small leaks. The newest TS software versions starts up a bit richer making them smoother. This upgrade is available for all ESS TS customers.

For existing TS customers we even have an exchange DME program used for updating softwares whenever a updated revision is available. We simply send out a preprogrammed DME matched to your car and you return your old one back as a core exchange. This service is free, we only ask you to cover the ECU freight which is inexpensive as there is no need for express shipping anymore as there is no DME programming downtime.
I have sent e-mail to Asbjorn and hans to cofirm about ECU upgrade software.
but I have not received e-mail.
Asbjorn. please check your e-mail ,and send me !
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Old 06-11-2007, 05:18 PM   #35
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I have sent e-mail to Asbjorn and hans to cofirm about ECU upgrade software.
but I have not received e-mail.
Asbjorn. please check your e-mail ,and send me !
Answered, on the latest software for MS45 DME's we have a revised camshaft positioning during the first 120 seconds of operation making the engine stronger during intial startup. MS45 is programmed from factory with massive overlap during startup to heat up the cats faster. This is why MS45 cars feels a little hesitant when cold started, even stock.

Max, I checked out your video and your startup is definately not normal. Try :

1. Measure vacuum at warm idle. Should read ~0.6bar if no leaks are present.
2. Measure fuel pressure after car is shut down, it should never go to 0.
3. Try a new set of plugs (OEM platinum), also try to borrow a MAF from another M54B30 MS43.
3. If none of the above is abnormal and no error codes are present, then I suspect incorrect cam timing and realignment of the cams is the next step.
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Old 07-02-2007, 10:42 PM   #36
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I send My Z4 TS1 ECU to ESS Norway to rewrite update software.
and it comes back.
I try and check 3times engine cold start!
No problem.
my Engine cold start is improved!
Thanks Asbjorn and ESS stuff!
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Old 07-02-2007, 10:54 PM   #37
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cool, glad it is working out for you
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Old 07-03-2007, 02:16 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by kosaka yuuta View Post
I send My Z4 TS1 ECU to ESS Norway to rewrite update software.
and it comes back.
I try and check 3times engine cold start!
No problem.
my Engine cold start is improved!
Thanks Asbjorn and ESS stuff!
Ok Asbjorn,, mine actually still does it for the first few seconds,, you think i might need to send my ecu in as well maybe the problem is in the ecu like my mechanic says.
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Old 07-03-2007, 05:19 AM   #39
kosaka yuuta
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Asbjorn, I have another question.
I forgot to add this question.
How do TS owners control (manage?) supercharger oil?
please show me how and when to check etc!
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Old 07-03-2007, 03:46 PM   #40
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Ok Asbjorn,, mine actually still does it for the first few seconds,, you think i might need to send my ecu in as well maybe the problem is in the ecu like my mechanic says.
Spartan,

You are welcome to send in your ECU for the richer startup version if you want. Just remember to mark total shipment value less than USD20 if you ship the DME to our Norway office.
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