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General E46 Forum
This is the place to get answers, opinions and everything you need related to your E46 (sedan, coupe, convertible and wagon) BMW!

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Old 07-11-2007, 03:56 PM   #41
Emanuel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 320de46m47 View Post
the funny thing about this forum is it seems no one ever reads anything anyone else wrote, they just respond to the original post or a response to their post
That's what you do as well! And for a purported English teacher, you seem to have very poor reading comprehension, in addition to not understanding words like "unsubstantiated."

And feel free to pick apart my grammar, as long as you use complete sentences and skip all the "lols" and ellipses, please.
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Old 07-11-2007, 04:04 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by agxster View Post
After I had my inspection 2 done the computer said next oil service in something like 9500 miles. Doesn't this adjust according to your driving style? So if I did a lot of motorway driving the service interval would extend?
Whoa - you've got an E46 and that's what the computer says? I just had an Inspection I done on my Z4, the computer said 15,800 miles till the next oil service when I picked up the car. I come up about on schedule though - my Inspection I light came on at 29,800 miles.

As for your question - nowadays the computer monitors how many gallons of gas you use. (I think it counts 660 gallons, or 600, something like that). More aggressive driving and/or lots of city driving will use more fuel, shortening the interval. Moderate driving on long road trips will lengthen it.
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Old 07-11-2007, 04:08 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by ice330ci05 View Post
is it bad to keep on changin oil brands and grade? e.x 0w40 to 5w30 to 0w30 and soo on..
It's not bad, but it's not recommended either. Your seals and gaskets react differently to different oil brands and oil grades as time goes on. I remember trying a new oil in a Porsche I had and it smoked like a Cheech and Chong movie. I changed the oil the next day back to my previous brand and it cleared up.
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Old 07-11-2007, 04:09 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Emanuel View Post
It's not bad, but it's not recommended either. Your seals and gaskets react differently to different oil brands and oil grades as time goes on. I remember trying a new oil in a Porsche I had and it smoked like a Cheech and Chong movie. I changed the oil the next day back to my previous brand and it cleared up.
thanx
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Old 07-11-2007, 04:19 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Emanuel View Post
That's what you do as well! And for a purported English teacher, you seem to have very poor reading comprehension, in addition to not understanding words like "unsubstantiated."

And feel free to pick apart my grammar, as long as you use complete sentences and skip all the "lols" and ellipses, please.
JUST answer the original question ... WE all NEED proof of these "facts" you have enlightened us with; the science, the scientist called todd ?! you state something as a "fact" and that's it! that's what Unsubstantiated actually means! utterly laughable!
come on big boy, can you?

let me refresh your memory

Originally Posted by Emanuel View Post
Hmm, typically the issue is that the question is poorly phrased, like in this thread. The real question is "how often should you change you oil?" Motor oil should be changed when its performance degrades, and it's been scientifically proven - numerous times, as in todd92's post - that BMW's recommended 15,000 mile interval is correct. At that point the oil's effectiveness is starting to degrade, but you've still got some leeway. Changing the oil and filter sooner derives no proven benefits. Not once has someone's oil analysis come back with results indicating the oil and filter should be changed sooner than factory interval. That is a fact; the rest is unsubstantiated opinion.



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Originally Posted by 320de46m47 View Post
wheres your proof? lol
unsubstantiated opinion....er what ? like yours you mean?
who the hell is todd?

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Old 07-11-2007, 04:29 PM   #46
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I change my oil every 3,500 miles or so. I feel the engine starts feeling weird around then. I also only use Royal Purple Oil.
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Old 07-11-2007, 04:30 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Emanuel View Post
I just had an Inspection I done on my Z4, the computer said 15,800 miles till the next oil service when I picked up the car.
CLEVER GRAMMAR THAT! lololololololololol

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Originally Posted by Emanuel View Post
...what?
YOU USE ELLIPSES ?!?!?!

YOU ARE A SoooooooooPREME dh

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Old 07-11-2007, 04:41 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by 320de46m47 View Post
JUST answer the original question ... WE all NEED proof of these "facts" you have enlightened us with; the science, the scientist called todd ?! you state something as a "fact" and that's it! that's what Unsubstantiated actually means! utterly laughable!
come on big boy, can you?
You've commented in this thread that no one else is reading all the posts. The answer to your questions (Where is the proof? Who is Todd?) are already in this thread, previously posted. I also made fairly clear - to someone of normal intelligence, I'll concede - what the facts are and my own views. If you ferret out the answers for yourself and have some follow-up questions, I'll gladly type slowly and use smaller words to address the obvious going forward in our exchange.
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Old 07-11-2007, 04:58 PM   #49
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I will refrain from childish digs on your intellect and use of English as is your want....

if you are referring to post 18, that is not proof!
We need proof from you as follows..........
"Not once has someone's oil analysis come back with results indicating the oil and filter should be changed sooner than factory interval."
Does this in fact mean you have data on every single oil anaysis ever undertaken?
"Changing the oil and filter sooner derives no proven benefits."
Again, proof please?
"That is a fact; the rest is unsubstantiated opinion."
If it's a fact ... just proof please?
you really need to differentiate between what are your views and what are facts...it may indeed help if you type slower and use smaller words. Seriously!
Many thanks AH

Last edited by 320de46m47; 07-11-2007 at 05:09 PM.
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Old 07-11-2007, 05:32 PM   #50
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I will refrain from childish digs on your intellect and use of English as is your want....
Again with the ellipses. And it's "wont." But that was a complete sentence, I'll give you credit for that at least.

Now AH, which seems probable to you? That numerous people have had oil analyses done with negative results, and simply chose to remain silent, or that no one has gotten back negative results? We've seen dozens, perhaps hundreds, of posts on the subject, all across the internet's BMW forums, with nary a peep. You want me to track down every lab result ever produced to prove I'm right? Proving me wrong is far easier - you only need to find one. Me and my pal Occam will wait patiently while you Google.

Truth is, even that wouldn't work - a single example out of the thousands of results done would be a statistical anomaly, not a trend.

Here's my stance again: Not once has anyone proven that the BMW factory oil service intervals will result in damage or premature engine wear to their car. BMW says it won't, my own Blackstone labs results say so, and so does everyone else's independent testing. I've seen nothing substantive from you that indicates this position is misguided or untrue, nor any contradicting lab data; perhaps your ellipses are actually micro-dots containing all the lab results? What's the factual basis for your opinion? Most people feel more frequent oil changes are needed because that's what they're used to; please tell me you've got something more substantive than habit to back up your belligerence.
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Old 07-11-2007, 07:54 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Emanuel View Post
Again with the ellipses. And it's "wont." But that was a complete sentence, I'll give you credit for that at least.

Now AH, which seems probable to you? That numerous people have had oil analyses done with negative results, and simply chose to remain silent, or that no one has gotten back negative results? We've seen dozens, perhaps hundreds, of posts on the subject, all across the internet's BMW forums, with nary a peep. You want me to track down every lab result ever produced to prove I'm right? Proving me wrong is far easier - you only need to find one. Me and my pal Occam will wait patiently while you Google.

Truth is, even that wouldn't work - a single example out of the thousands of results done would be a statistical anomaly, not a trend.

Here's my stance again: Not once has anyone proven that the BMW factory oil service intervals will result in damage or premature engine wear to their car. BMW says it won't, my own Blackstone labs results say so, and so does everyone else's independent testing. I've seen nothing substantive from you that indicates this position is misguided or untrue, nor any contradicting lab data; perhaps your ellipses are actually micro-dots containing all the lab results? What's the factual basis for your opinion? Most people feel more frequent oil changes are needed because that's what they're used to; please tell me you've got something more substantive than habit to back up your belligerence.

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Old 07-11-2007, 09:04 PM   #52
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I have been changing the oil on my vintage cars using regular dino every one year or 3000 miles for the last 30 years. On my E46 I change the oil and filter every 5000 to 6000 miles, usually that is every 6 months or so.
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Old 07-11-2007, 09:33 PM   #53
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Also is the question of integrity of the oil based on time, as I sometimes drive on average 2000 miles a month. For those that drive a lot in a short period of time, do you or recommend to change it at those same mileage intervals or is it safe to push it for longer?
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Old 07-11-2007, 09:34 PM   #54
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Good Synthetics can last 15k the concern should be with the oil filter which should be changed more often, i'm running Amsoil Euro 5W-40, oil changes every 10,0000km, filter changes every 2500km, works well for me, cars a 2000w/ 180k engine still runs just as smooth as my friends 2005 w/30,000km
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Old 07-11-2007, 10:14 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by win-by-miles View Post
bmw says every 25000 km
lol the salesman told me about the story.

If you buy a new car you can get the free oil change for 4 years.

Now they said 25000km because they don't want people come to the service desk and ask for the oil change every 5000k.

They told me you can get the oil change everyday for free if your car has a warranty.
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Old 07-12-2007, 02:53 AM   #56
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Again with the ellipses. And it's "wont." But that was a complete sentence, I'll give you credit for that at least.

Now AH, which seems probable to you? That numerous people have had oil analyses done with negative results, and simply chose to remain silent, or that no one has gotten back negative results? We've seen dozens, perhaps hundreds, of posts on the subject, all across the internet's BMW forums, with nary a peep. You want me to track down every lab result ever produced to prove I'm right? Proving me wrong is far easier - you only need to find one. Me and my pal Occam will wait patiently while you Google.

Truth is, even that wouldn't work - a single example out of the thousands of results done would be a statistical anomaly, not a trend.

Here's my stance again: Not once has anyone proven that the BMW factory oil service intervals will result in damage or premature engine wear to their car. BMW says it won't, my own Blackstone labs results say so, and so does everyone else's independent testing. I've seen nothing substantive from you that indicates this position is misguided or untrue, nor any contradicting lab data; perhaps your ellipses are actually micro-dots containing all the lab results? What's the factual basis for your opinion? Most people feel more frequent oil changes are needed because that's what they're used to; please tell me you've got something more substantive than habit to back up your belligerence.
did i say that i was trying to prove anything or was stating anything as a fact?

just dont like patronising smug know it alls who whinge about others not being able to back anything they say up and who then prefer to attack spelling and grammar instead of back up anything THEY spout

...but then i dont really need to say this as you do it all by yourself

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Old 07-12-2007, 03:14 AM   #57
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Here's my stance again: Not once has anyone proven that the BMW factory oil service intervals will result in damage or premature engine wear to their car. BMW says it won't...
Hmmm, all I can say is dig. This issue is years old! There have been several master mechanics quoted saying otherwise, I assume if you put enough effort into it you can unfold the layers of the onion, but who cares really.

BMW cannot change their stance - this is simple economics, they will have a zillion claims against them etc - simple cost benefit anaysis tells them the direction they will take. Same kinda thing as the fords blowing up years back - cheaper for them to do a claim by claim basis rather than an admission of guilt or worse a recall - that all costs $$$

Look at it from BMWs point of veiw - they want to keep the car running till the warranty is out, after that they dont care, they are not footing the bill, but they do care about having to pay for the labor on 2x or 3x of the oil changes (and oil) for every car under wannanty. Sure they want to keep these car running forever, but we all know, most don't make it too far anyway, the engine is the last to go. Things are a bit different for the e46fanatics, we are the minority of e46 owners...most dont give a fliying $hit about their cars, nor thier oil.

Simple economics. Dont want to change your oil more often then dont, and dont wait by the mail box looking for BMW to retort their claim on the interval - the way the have it makes the most business sense, plus the added marketing glitz on how well engineered these cars are an how little serivce they need.

Remember the SUB-FRAME issue - well one guy has had his repir covered outside of warranty, there is a paper trail on the issue (TSB) and BMW is not going any where with it - if they do nothing with the sub-frame, be sure nothing is going to happen with the oil interval on the record. Again simple economics.

In north america, there is still a stigma on how 'expensive' german cars are to maintain - this was true in the 70's and 80's but is not really the case today. This service interval things is just a cog in the wheel to undo that perception (along with BMWs new 'everything is covered' 100K KM warranty)

Your going to do your thing, BMW is going to do what they do, and I am going to change my oil at 10,000 KMS and were all going to secretly laugh at this and argue about it forever.
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Old 07-12-2007, 04:24 AM   #58
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just dont like patronising smug know it alls who whinge about others not being able to back anything they say up and who then prefer to attack spelling and grammar instead of back up anything THEY spout
Yeah, I figured your response would be along these lines. You don't like patronizing know-it-alls (note the hypenation), and me, I don't like grammar-challenged know-nothings. Big whoop.
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Old 07-12-2007, 04:52 AM   #59
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Hmmm, all I can say is dig. This issue is years old! There have been several master mechanics quoted saying otherwise, I assume if you put enough effort into it you can unfold the layers of the onion, but who cares really....

Your going to do your thing, BMW is going to do what they do, and I am going to change my oil at 10,000 KMS and were all going to secretly laugh at this and argue about it forever.
I've also read accounts of mechanics saying that the new service schedules are a joke, and I agree with them on several points. I haven't read anything about engines seizing up because someone only followed the BMW recommended maintenance schedule, not even from Mike Miller, who's very skeptical of BMW's schedule.

I agree that everyone is pretty much going to do what they feel comfortable with. My original response to the thread's query, which still stands, is that using the recommend oil and filter at the recommended intervals will do no harm. I get that some people aren't comfortable with that, but things tend to get vague or hostile when you press for anything more concrete.

The sub-frame analogy is an excellent example. While BMW refuses to do anything about it, we've got LOTS of anecdotal evidence that it's a problem, it's been mentioned in buying guides and magazines - there's no digging required, everyone's heard about it.

If the oil change interval was leading to disaster on even that small a scale, even if BMW ignored it, we'd have numerous threads, probably stickied, about the issue. The E46 has completed its model run and been superceded, with 100s of thousands of examples sold and plenty of cars well over 100,000 miles - where's the outcry? The E90s haven't sold nearly as many 335s and you can't browse a forum about them without hearing about the fuel pump and oil cooler issues. People on the net complain - constantly, loudly, repeatedly. The silence on this issue is deafening.
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Old 07-12-2007, 05:24 AM   #60
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I've also read accounts of mechanics saying that the new service schedules are a joke, and I agree with them on several points. I haven't read anything about engines seizing up because someone only followed the BMW recommended maintenance schedule, not even from Mike Miller, who's very skeptical of BMW's schedule.

I agree that everyone is pretty much going to do what they feel comfortable with. My original response to the thread's query, which still stands, is that using the recommend oil and filter at the recommended intervals will do no harm. I get that some people aren't comfortable with that, but things tend to get vague or hostile when you press for anything more concrete.

The sub-frame analogy is an excellent example. While BMW refuses to do anything about it, we've got LOTS of anecdotal evidence that it's a problem, it's been mentioned in buying guides and magazines - there's no digging required, everyone's heard about it.

If the oil change interval was leading to disaster on even that small a scale, even if BMW ignored it, we'd have numerous threads, probably stickied, about the issue. The E46 has completed its model run and been superceded, with 100s of thousands of examples sold and plenty of cars well over 100,000 miles - where's the outcry? The E90s haven't sold nearly as many 335s and you can't browse a forum about them without hearing about the fuel pump and oil cooler issues. People on the net complain - constantly, loudly, repeatedly. The silence on this issue is deafening.
Very Well put - the only issue I have heard in regards to the interval are the tiny holes in the vanos clogging due to sludge.
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