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DIY: Do It Yourself
Post here to share or improve your wrench turning skills! All BMW E46 DIY tips, tales, and projects discussed inside. Learn to work on your car and know the right BMW parts you will need!

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Old 10-18-2007, 10:17 PM   #1
castaway
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e46 clutch replacement - ran into problem

2002 e46 Ci 5-speed
85k miles

ok, replacing my clutch following the writeup at pelicanparts.com

car on jacks. check.
remove exhaust. check
remove driveshaft. check
remove shift linkage. check.
remove transmission. che ... uhhhhhh, problem.









got 9 star bolts out ...



now here's where i'm stuck. 9 bolts out, and i THINK the starter is holding me up. problem is, i can't see the other 2 bolts that pelicanparts talks about??? i've also looked at my330i.com and while they elude to these bolts, there's no pictures and no procedure. sh*t.

so, anybody have any diagrams, pictures, kick-ass descriptions of what to do next with this starter? i've been messing with it for an hour, and while the transmission moves about 2 cm forward, it just won't go

btw, this is a crosspost from http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...d.php?t=846969

thanks for your help!
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Old 10-18-2007, 11:00 PM   #2
frogg320
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Did you look through RealOEM.com yet? (How did you get everything so clean?) I'm going to flip through my Bentley manual, I'll let you know if I find something.
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Old 10-18-2007, 11:03 PM   #3
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Found it. PMing you the image.
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Old 10-18-2007, 11:07 PM   #4
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Nevermind, I'll post for all to enjoy



(big enough picture for you?)
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Old 10-18-2007, 11:09 PM   #5
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It says they're all torx, and you should note length and position of the bolts when you take them out. Thanks, Bentley!
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Old 10-18-2007, 11:23 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frogg320 View Post
Did you look through RealOEM.com yet? (How did you get everything so clean?) I'm going to flip through my Bentley manual, I'll let you know if I find something.
didn't know about that site, thanks! i appreciate the help.

as for it being clean, i was surprised too! she's got 85k miles and that's exactly what it looked like when i dropped everything.
what can i say ... i'm good to her!
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Old 10-18-2007, 11:26 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by frogg320 View Post
It says they're all torx, and you should note length and position of the bolts when you take them out. Thanks, Bentley!
noted.

as seen in the picture, they're actually arranged in an order only i can interpret. (actually, i just started at 12 oclock and went clockwise. easy enough.)
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Old 10-18-2007, 11:41 PM   #8
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ok, realoem.com has this image



i've got something going on between the #1 and #2 bolts on the above picture. i've got #6 out, so it's not that.

i swear i don't see any more torx bolts on my transmission. i see 2 internal torx bolts (look like this)

that MAY be holding the starter on (located between #1 and #2 in reference to above picture), but they're almost impossible to get to, and impossible to get a good grip on. i'll see if i can get a picture.

thanks again mate.

Last edited by castaway; 10-18-2007 at 11:45 PM.
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Old 10-19-2007, 12:46 AM   #9
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1 am, in pj's and slippers, beer in hand, i go climbing under the car to get pics.





#11 does not have a head to it. and i can't see where the hell it comes from (starter?) also, x & y are pictured. they are torx, but NOT like the others (they are internal, like i pictured in my previous post). do i TRY to remove those (looks difficult).

oh, and #4 is NOT torx. it's a bolt that holds something on to transmission (wires?). just an fyi for anyone attempting this.

everything went well up to this point ... so close, and yet ...
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Old 10-19-2007, 06:22 AM   #10
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Sometimes the transmission gets stuck to the starter dowel pin making removal a little hard. Also make sure you removed the engine cross brase since the bell housing of the transmission sometimes gets stuck, you may get it out with the engine brace still attached but it's a ***** putting it back on. And lastly and probably the most overlooked on the pass side midway up on the edge of the bell housing there is a bracket that holds the wiring for the post 02 sensors held in by a 10mm bolt, it also holds the sheild between the engine and the transmission to the transmission make sure it's removed or held the tranmsmission won't come out.

Jared
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Old 10-19-2007, 08:08 AM   #11
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It looks like you're right about #11, from what I can see. Perhaps my shop manual isn't right all the time! But, from the looks of it, that bolt is holding your transmission on, whatever the pictures say...right?
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Old 10-19-2007, 10:09 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Ivegotissues666 View Post
Sometimes the transmission gets stuck to the starter dowel pin making removal a little hard.
Jared
i think this is my problem @ #11
on both ends, it feels as if it has nothing else to it, like it's just a pin.
but i'm not sure, as i can only go by feel (the above picture is the closest i can get a camera, let alone my head)

do i just tap this out (somehow)?

thanks.
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Old 10-19-2007, 10:43 AM   #13
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ok, trying to tap it out didn't work.
when i move the housing, i can see the starter move with it.
it's still attached to the housing at that #11 location. but how to get it off?
i think i'm going to have to drive over to the dealer and ask one of the techs. don't know what else to do at this point ...
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Old 10-19-2007, 11:08 AM   #14
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I haven't done this on my e46, but as per my experience on e36, I believe you have to remove the starter. You didn't mention that you did this yet.

Support the trans,
loosen (or remove) the engine mount bolts,
tip the engine/trans down (in the back),
in order to reach the starter bolts from the bottom;
or,
if you are a contortionist,
take off the cabin filter tray
slip your hand into the top-back of the engine,
in order to unbolt the starter from the engine side.

I think there are two 16mm bolts that remove the starter, which are on the "dark side" (back of the engine) that are bolted onto the internal hex bolts you were describing. If you have a GearWrench short racheting-wrench, 16mm, you can reach them. Gearwrench is Sears' high end 5 degree racheting wrenches -- and you need the shorty set.
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Old 10-19-2007, 11:47 AM   #15
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starter



the 2 internal hex screws i see (x & y in below picture) are holding on part #2 in the above picture.
it looks to me like the starter is held on by two hex bolts, #3 in above picture (one that you see, and one on the far side.) i have these two removed (for reference, these two bolts correspond to position 10 & 1 in below picture).

the starter still won't budge.



while i can't exactly see all that is going on, going by feel (and by these diagrams of what should and shouldn't be there) there are no more bolts holding it on. except for the down pin (position #11 in above picture).

very frustrating.

i appreciate your help. thanks again.
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Last edited by castaway; 10-19-2007 at 11:52 AM.
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Old 10-19-2007, 05:21 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Busby View Post
I think there are two 16mm bolts that remove the starter, which are on the "dark side" (back of the engine) that are bolted onto the internal hex bolts you were describing. If you have a GearWrench short racheting-wrench, 16mm, you can reach them. Gearwrench is Sears' high end 5 degree racheting wrenches -- and you need the shorty set.
This is true on the older BMW's E30's, E34's etc.. they since changed the way the starter mounts and the starter casing is threaded for external torx bolts instead of the 16/17mm nuts/bolts.


Quote:
Originally Posted by castaway View Post


the 2 internal hex screws i see (x & y in below picture) are holding on part #2 in the above picture.
it looks to me like the starter is held on by two hex bolts, #3 in above picture (one that you see, and one on the far side.) i have these two removed (for reference, these two bolts correspond to position 10 & 1 in below picture).

the starter still won't budge.



while i can't exactly see all that is going on, going by feel (and by these diagrams of what should and shouldn't be there) there are no more bolts holding it on. except for the down pin (position #11 in above picture).

very frustrating.

i appreciate your help. thanks again.
Which side did you tap it from? If the bell housing is at the bottom isnt hitting the engine brace and you are sure you removed that 10mm holdig the engine sheild to the transmission then I'm willing to bet money that dowel pin is the cause for the transmission not coming out.

Good Luck

Jared
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Old 10-19-2007, 05:29 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Ivegotissues666 View Post
I'm willing to bet money that dowel pin is the cause for the transmission not coming out.

Good Luck

Jared
you got it jared! ... and so did i (finally!).

just required some ingenuity. and more importantly, a pneumatic chisel. more on that later ...

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Old 10-19-2007, 07:39 PM   #18
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Hahah, I often find that pneumatic chisels are good substitutes for that extra bit of ingenuity. I'd be interested to hear how it went! This is a useful kind of tip for those with lots of guts and not much experience
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Old 10-20-2007, 07:48 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by castaway View Post
you got it jared! ... and so did i (finally!).

just required some ingenuity. and more importantly, a pneumatic chisel. more on that later ...

Glad to hear everything worked out, on all the E46 clutchs I have done that has tended to be the issue.

Jared
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Old 10-21-2007, 01:08 PM   #20
castaway
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out!



this helped. (pneumatic chisel. put it beeween the 2 parts to separate and hit the go button. it went through like butter (this after about 5 hours of research, and many failed attempts at prying it apart with various tools and one big-ass screwdriver.)



the little monkey that caused all this trouble (dowel pin).



oh yeah, second little tip for pulling the trans out. engine must be tilted backwards a bit, we know that. but you can't simply just pull it off, you have to rotate it counter-clockwise a few degrees to get it to clear the underside of the car. this also caused us some trouble until we figured it out.
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