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DIY: Do It Yourself
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Old 03-27-2015, 04:41 PM   #1
891CARLOS
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Keyless push start diy-coming soon

Hey guys, I'm in the process of finishing up a truly keyless push button start for our e46's. MEANING, no key in the ignition necessary! I've search and all DIY's or FYI's need a key in the ignition and then the press of the button but a lot of members have said, which I agree, what's the point of doing this if the key is still needed!! right?

Well that was the reason I started this and I was able to setup a NO KEY needed system, I can still use the key as an emergency in case my push button fob is lost or battery dies. It is a Chinese, ebay brand system which includes remote starting, alarm (handy if your car is not equipped), passive keyless entry.

Now, I'am in the last steps of finishing this up but need couple answers of people currently running a push start button to give this a final thought and posting it. So people running push button start, let me know:
-Manual or auto trans?
-After disabling the steering lock, were you able to shift without the key in the ignition?
-Do you have a system or just wired the push start button to the starter/ignition?

The reason I'm not posting it yet is because my setup does have its drawbacks in regards to security. Also, I'm still having trouble with the door locks to function with the system but this is unrelated to the push button operation.
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Old 03-27-2015, 05:13 PM   #2
Cheapbimmer
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Cool idea. What about the ignition tumbler, does it just stay there? I'd be interested if it was removed or some cover was available to hide it.
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Old 03-27-2015, 07:11 PM   #3
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Yes, at the moment I have the ignition tumbler there. Like I said, I would like to have it as an emergency/second option in case I loose or battery on the PB system dies. Now, I also was thinking about removing the tumbler completely and relocating the ews ring somewhere inside the dash. I don't see an issue there, you'll would need to fabricate an insert to cover that space.

I have it all ready but need more input before going live.
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Old 03-28-2015, 10:42 AM   #4
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I've seen those setups using the Chinese systems on eBay. Was going to go with one of those myself.

This is how I'd do it. Remove the ignition lock cylinder and remove the steering lock. I've not seen what size the push button itself is but perhaps it doesn't cover that hole?

I guess I can see where the security flaw in your system lies. To make it a true keyless, you'd have to set a transponder or key by the key ring, which means anybody with a flathead could start your car correct? Maybe I can help you.

There's a couple or ways you can increase your security, and it all involves relays which can be located in places someone on the inside would only know to be able to access and combine wires together to bypass your system.

You can either hook up a relay to the wire that exits the ews and releases the starter, as well as say, turning on your interior light or map light as the other source of power to the relay, and together, they power a relay to complete the circuit to release the starter .

Another option is to either extend the wires to the key ring reader, and relocate it somewhere you want a key to be placed, say inside that sunglass compartment. Setting your key in there so it can read the transponder is another method.

What my original plan was using the systems rfid setup, purchasing my own rfid transponder coder along with multiple blank rfid chips, sowing these chips in to my shoes, boxers, some piece of clothing, so I'd not even have to worry about a key. You should be able to wire it up to where the afternarket system together with the stock system is required in order to release the starter and/or fuel pump
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Old 03-30-2015, 09:22 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NumbaOneNewb View Post
This is how I'd do it. Remove the ignition lock cylinder and remove the steering lock. I've not seen what size the push button itself is but perhaps it doesn't cover that hole?
-I can say that the button in my system will cover the ignition tumbler hole if you'd prefer it that way, but I didn't like that setup. I preferred to have it at the cig lighter location. It also gives you the second option to still use the key in emergency situation.
-Steering lock was disabled but it did not took care of the shifter lock; we know that the in order to shift from park, you must press on the brake pedal but there is another mechanical lock running from the tumbler (which is disable when the key is turned to on position) to the shifter that works with the brake in order to shift. Hope that makes sense. This applies to auto trans, I don't know about manual so that is why I'm asking for more input.

Quote:
I guess I can see where the security flaw in your system lies. To make it a true keyless, you'd have to set a transponder or key by the key ring, which means anybody with a flathead could start your car correct? Maybe I can help you.
-not necessarily: I used the 556uw to bypass the ews using just a transponder chip, no key left inside the car! like other remote start setups I've seen.
-in order for someone to get inside the car (oe alarm bypass, Push button security bypassed) and even if they used a screwdriver or other "tool" and messed around the ignition, they will not be able to turn on my car. The 556uw only is active when the push button system is unlock and recognizes the rfchip in the smart fob. If and only If, they manage to find the transponder chip in the 556uw, then they can start messing with the ignition.

Quote:
Another option is to either extend the wires to the key ring reader, and relocate it somewhere you want a key to be placed, say inside that sunglass compartment. Setting your key in there so it can read the transponder is another method.
-The relay option is overboard in my opinion, however this option above is a great idea! but I do not need it as the 556uw works the same way.

Quote:
What my original plan was using the systems rfid setup, purchasing my own rfid transponder coder along with multiple blank rfid chips, sowing these chips in to my shoes, boxers, some piece of clothing, so I'd not even have to worry about a key. You should be able to wire it up to where the afternarket system together with the stock system is required in order to release the starter and/or fuel pump
-All this is unnecessary as the push button systems have these features, unless you want to set up your own system, it will work the same.
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Old 03-30-2015, 10:59 AM   #6
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I will explain the security drawbacks I was talking about and what security "I think" the system covers, let me know if there is something else I'm not covering:
OE security is active and used with my setup
-motion sensor
-hood sensor
-tilt sensor
-a glass sensor will be also going in and mounted in the motion sensor cover, waiting on this to arrive
Push button security
-shock sensor
-556uw transponder bypass (hidden somewhere in the dash)
-RF chip (smart fob), will only unlock the ignition, starter
-Brake wire to disengage remote start

I may be missing something else. Using just a transponder chip with the 556uw is better than leaving a spare key! which can be used by a thief to easily drive off. Again, this is if they manage to get by the oe and push button system security.

Now, the drawback I see with my setup, in order to disable the shift lock I mentioned earlier:
There is a mechanical cable running from the ignition to the shifter base. It has a small piston/pin that needs to be pressed in to unlock the shifter, this works together with the brake pedal lock in order to shift. This mechanical cable piston/pin is pressed by the ignition tumbler when the key is turned to acc position. This is why a lot of push start systems have you cut a key, leaving it inside the key cylinder and turned to acc position. You will have to cut the key sense wire to avoid having the accessories on all the time. I looked everywhere for diagrams and did not find the keysense wire for 02+, I tried probing the ignition wires without any luck. I was trying this to see how it'll work, but this was a big security issue for me since you are leaving a key in plain sight (even if you cover it with the push button or other cover you make).

-So I opted to bypassed this piston/pin, by bypassing this cable, you can shift no problems and you have a truly Keyless push start system.
The drawbacks with this system are;
1. If you use the key in case of an emergency, the key cannot be removed once it is turned to on position. In order to remove the key, you will need to returned the piston cable to its original position in the tumbler. At the moment, I'm still trying to figure this one out.

2. You don't use the key, no problems right?.. well the other issue I saw is that, by disabling this cable, you would loose the shift lock:
So while the car/engine is off, the shift knob can be moved freely. I did not like this at all, that is the MAJOR issue I'm having right now since the shift knob can accidentally be put on D or R and if you remote start the car without knowing.... It's not a good result!
While in drive, the shift knob works normally; locked and can only shift by stopping and pressing the brake to fully shift. This was good since you don't want the shift to be moved from D to P while driving. I have not tried to shift from D to N while driving to check if it lets you, but I don't see why you'll want to do that in an auto trans.

Again, all these is different for manual cars and I wanted to verified with members that have tried a push start system. Let me know who can give some input on this or wants more info.

Thanks.
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Old 03-30-2015, 10:31 PM   #7
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Sorry I misunderstood your original quote. I had thought every thing was a standard as far as the security function goes. I didn't know about the auto shift lock. That could be a pain. I'll look into that.

I was aware of the bypass module. A buddy of mine wrote the diy for the remote starters for our cars and the way he uses relays was very creative.

So, the only thing you are wondering about is the shift lock then?
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Old 03-30-2015, 10:48 PM   #8
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Supposedly, it says nothing in the wds about the mechanical thing in tumbler. Try this.

The wds claims that to allow the shift lock mechanism at the shifter to release there's a black 3 pin connector to the shift lock.
The wire with colors Brown and violet is the ground wire while the black and violet is the positive. Both all end up lead to the transmission computer. I'm guessing the computer eventually grounds the connection when conditions are satisfied.

Try ground the black and violet wire, pin 1. If it works, I'm sure you'll have it from there. Perhaps wiring a relay to it so it only ground the connection using another reference source may be best
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Last edited by NumbaOneNewb; 03-30-2015 at 10:48 PM.
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Old 03-31-2015, 09:44 AM   #9
891CARLOS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NumbaOneNewb View Post
Supposedly, it says nothing in the wds about the mechanical thing in tumbler. Try this.

The wds claims that to allow the shift lock mechanism at the shifter to release there's a black 3 pin connector to the shift lock.
The wire with colors Brown and violet is the ground wire while the black and violet is the positive. Both all end up lead to the transmission computer. I'm guessing the computer eventually grounds the connection when conditions are satisfied.

Try ground the black and violet wire, pin 1. If it works, I'm sure you'll have it from there. Perhaps wiring a relay to it so it only ground the connection using another reference source may be best
WDS? can you let me know what this is and could you pm a copy of it? I will look into this connector and report back. Although, I don't see how a mechanical cable will be released by an electrical connection..?

I will take a pic later today of the cable that runs from behind the tumbler to the shifer. If we are to completely remove the tumbler/key cylinder, than I could see how grounding this wires may release the shift and all will be set but again, I would like to keep it to be used as an emergency in case you loose the rfid remote or battery dies.

do you have a manual or auto trans?
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Old 03-31-2015, 11:36 AM   #10
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@NumbaOneNewb first off thanks for following up with me on this. In your last post regarding grounding off wires in the black connector, this would be to release the foot brake lock which is not what I wanted, although this does work in conjunction with the shift lock. I will look into this later today and will report back what I find.

So, just for informative purposes there are 2 locks in the shift mechanism to be able to shift:
1. Brake lock
-When the brake pedal is pressed, it release the ground circuit from the shift lock solenoid (what NumbaOneNewb referred to above)
2. Shift lock
-A cable that runs from the key cylinder/tumbler to the shift plate, it is disengaged when the key is turned to the acc or on position.

So in order for a key not to be used with the push button system, we need to bypass this interlock cable. I've read that many bypass this lock because of issues shifting to or from park but none are a permanent solution. Also, like I stated above, I'm keeping the key cylinder/tumbler as a second option or in case I loose my remote or battery dies.

Keep in mind that by completely bypassing this interlock cable, the shifter knob will move freely once the car is off, this is a safety measure that we have to be extremely careful with specially if you'll have remote starting features. This is not an issue once the car/engine is running, it works as it normally does.

This shift interlock was design solely because of lawsuits that brought Audi down back in the 80's, if I'm not mistaken. You can search on this if you'd like.
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Old 03-31-2015, 01:58 PM   #11
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Some more information straight from BMW:
Shiftlock/interlock.
Added safety for vehicles with automatic transmission: the shiftlock and interlock features prevent unintended shifting into a drive gear, or accidental removal of the ignition key while the vehicle is moving.

Shiftlock is a safety feature of BMW automatic transmission systems. It makes sure that the gearshift lever can be moved from neutral (N) or park (P) into a drive gear (D or R) only if you hold down the brake pedal.

Interlock is an additional safety function that prevents loss or unintentional removal of the ignition key while driving: the ignition key cannot be withdrawn without having the gearshift being in park (P).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So per above, the interlock cable is only there to prevent us from removing the key while driving. This will totally be unnecessary since we will have our push start button, we are not using a key at all! This will be great for those of you who choose to totally remove the key cylinder/tumbler. I will look into it more since I'm choosing to leave the cylinder/tumbler and hopefully have good results!!
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Old 03-30-2016, 10:31 AM   #12
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Ever do a full write up for this?
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Old 03-30-2016, 10:56 AM   #13
891CARLOS
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Ever do a full write up for this?
I did but I also saw no interest from others so I just left it at that. I've seen couple aftermarket alarm DIY's which cover most of the installation of any push button start, now the only way to turn it into a true keyless is what I've explained about the shift-lock and interlock systems.

I can say that I've been running my keyless push button system since I first posted this and I have not encountered any issues, I have only used my key a handful of times.

If you or anyone is interested, I can look for that write up or help you through pm's.
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