What BMW has to say about engine coolant

Tech info on engine coolants straight from the TIS

Thanks for the info.

so i guess prestone is not approved then. this should settle the debate with the prestone vs bmw coolant

Looks like none of the approved anti-freezes are made in the USA.

I'd like to buy BMW coolant by the tanker....please.

Originally Posted by Deep Blue

so i guess prestone is not approved then. this should settle the debate with the prestone vs bmw coolant

Not necessarily...

This is only a list of specific coolants that BMW selected for testing and subsequently approved. We do not by what criteria BMW selected these particular coolants (and not other coolants) to test, nor do we know which, if any, additional coolants that tested but failed to gain approval.

Nonetheless, when selecting coolant the easiest and safest way to do it is to stick to the list of known good products. The harder way to do it would be to do the necessary research to ensure the coolant you select is chemically equivalent or superior to the listed products. The least wise way to do it is to just dump in just anything based on the theory that all coolants are the same.

Originally Posted by bmwbun

The BMW requirements for being nitrate and amino free have nothing to do with the interior of your engine and everything to do with protection of the environment upon disposal.

Actually IIRC it has everything to do with the interior of the engine. Aluminum engine components/block react (electrolysis?) with certain chemicals such as nitrides contained in certain coolants.

Yet another tech free post from bmwbun. Actual chemistry tech is fully absent, innuendo and imagination takes its place, resulting in strange claims not just about the technical subject but also what has actually been said.

Originally Posted by bmwbun

Careful not to walk down the same goofy trail for engine antifreeze as many have with LL-01 oils.

All we're tying to achieve with engine antifreeze is protection of metal and preservation of non-metal while ensuring nothing freezes.

The BMW requirements for being nitrate and amino free have nothing to do with the interior of your engine and everything to do with protection of the environment upon disposal.

Really?

Originally Posted by jpr

Just to be clear, BMW does not actually recommend you only use BMW coolant. Instead, they recommend you use any one of a variety of coolants which meet the BMW N 600 69.0 standard and are available from a variety of manufacturers.

Likewise, they do not recommend you use only use BMW or Castrol oil. They recommend you use an oil tested and approved to the appropiate BMW Longlife standard for your engine. I know of at least 25 oils that meet the LL-01 standard, another dozen LL-04 oils, and 25+ LL-98 oils. So BMW isn't exactly trying to make people only buy one particular brand.

As for potential issues from using a non-spec coolant, there are in fact some. Unfortunately Prestone does not see fit to share much technical info on their product, but let's take a look 3 BASF products on which data is available.

As noted before, the BMW approved G48 has a organic acid and silicate corrosion inhibitior package and is nitrite, amine, and phosphate free. In the glassware corrossion test, it shows an average weight loss of -1.1 mg on an aluminum coupon. In the simulated service test, it shows a typical weight loss of -1.2 mg on an aluminum coupon.

G05 is similar but contains nitrites in the corrosion package and is not BMW approved. In the glassware corrossion test, it shows an average weight loss of -2.4 mg on an aluminum coupon. In the simulated service test, it shows a typical weight loss of -1.8 mg on an aluminum coupon.

G30 is nitrite, amine, phosphate, silicate, and borate free and is not BMW appproved. In the glassware corrossion test, it shows an average weight loss of -4.0 mg on an aluminum coupon. In the simulated service test, it shows a typical weight loss of -3.3 mg on an aluminum coupon.

As you can see, there is an actual quanitfiable benefit to using a BMW approved coolant.

*****

Originally Posted by bmwbun

I know what you're thinking. Hey, is this a technical spec or a marketing program?

And just as you did with LL-01, by all means trick yourself into believing that the list of approved antifreeze brands in BMW TIS are the only ones compatible with your engine.

Ignore the myopic reasons why the BMW people only listed European brands. Convince yourself they must be better.

BMW TIS spends more time specifying the water you can use than the chemical makeup of the antifreeze needed.

Its all just a marketing program.

They're only a half step away from selling us Euro formula distilled water.

.

Originally Posted by jpr

This is only a list of specific coolants that BMW selected for testing and subsequently approved. We do not by what criteria BMW selected these particular coolants (and not other coolants) to test, nor do we know which, if any, additional coolants that tested but failed to gain approval.

Nonetheless, when selecting coolant the easiest and safest way to do it is to stick to the list of known good products. The harder way to do it would be to do the necessary research to ensure the coolant you select is chemically equivalent or superior to the listed products. The least wise way to do it is to just dump in just anything based on the theory that all coolants are the same.

EDIT: How amusing, in the time I wrote the reply, bmwbun delted his post from this thread and reposted it in this thread - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showpos...7&postcount=10

Originally Posted by jpr

Yet another tech free post from bmwbun. Actual chemistry tech is fully absent,

You'll notice that first, jpr posted his beloved little TIS articles that he thinks are the bible.

All they have is some info on the chemistry of the water needed to mix with.

Thanks BMW, I'm assuming if I import a bottle of distilled water from a German supermarket I'll be fine?


They (BMW) specified nitrate and amino free for environmental disposal reasons.

So we could all be green.

Its like Lifetime tranny fluid. A marketing program.

Skeptical?

Here's a quote from SBS 2:

Ongoing technical development means that the coolant does not need to be changed on the vehicles listed below.
- E65 from 09/2003
- E60, all models since market introduction
- E85 since market introduction
- Vehicles with Service interval indicator (SIA) with petrol engines from 03/2003
- Vehicles with Service interval indicator (SIA) with diesel engines from 09/2003
- M vehicles from 09/2003



Let's see, Longlife and Lifetime are already taken, what should BMW call this one?

.

Originally Posted by bmwbun

They (BMW) specified nitrate and amino free for environmental disposal reasons.

Prove it.

I'll bet you can't and this is just another one of the continuous stream of posts you make containing nothing but pure BS.

Save me some time and just read SBS-3 yourself.

(What brand of moron doesn't read what he himself posts?)

Maybe blow the dust off your 12th grade chemistry textbook while you're at it.

Let's face it, its not rocket science....


Pour the Prestone. You'll be fine.

.

I have already proven it for myself! 250k on our 92 Audi. 200K of it on Prestone! Most of this prior to the new long life stuff. No corrosion, zero, zip, nada. No cooling system components changed til 14 years and 160K when the pump started leaking. The only failures were not metalic but plastic related. Newer plastics are different and not harmed by the antifreeze. Yes there is Prestone in my BMW.

Originally Posted by bmwbun

Let's face it, its not rocket science....

jess plain stew pid.

You can argue until you're blue in the face about what's acceptable and what's not. The fact of the matter is, BMW provides a list of fluids that are guaranteed not to cause problems. This absolutely does not mean that they are the only fluids that can be used. BMW doesn't test every product on the market. Problem is, if you use something that's not on the list then your car becomes the long term test lab.

It's a lot safer to give the general public a list of approved products than to make them have to figure out what's compatible with their car. Frankly, some people I know aren't qualifed to tie their shoes much less understand the chemistry of antifreeze. Considering that some of the forum members here aren't even old enough to be in 12th grade, you have to be mindful of the advice that you dish out.

Originally Posted by TxZHP04

It's a lot safer to give the general public a list of approved products than to make them have to figure out what's compatible with their car. Frankly, some people I know aren't qualifed to tie their shoes much less understand the chemistry of antifreeze. Considering that some of the forum members here aren't even old enough to be in 12th grade, you have to be mindful of the advice that you dish out.

Certainly a valid perspective.

One of the unintended consequences of having BMW publish a partial list of coolant brands sold only in Europe is that the occasional blithering idiot BMW owner in North America will conclude that somehow they're superior or safer than the brands available here.

That same idiot may not even pause to think of the possibility that the "approved" BMW OE coolant may have played a role in the seemingly premature failure of water pumps and expansion tanks that some of us experience.

Let's face one thing. BMW certainly can't claim to guarantee we're free of cooling related issues using the OE maintenance intervals, fluids and parts.

.

thanks for the info

Originally Posted by bmwbun

That same idiot may not even pause to think of the possibility that the "approved" BMW OE coolant may have played a role in the seemingly premature failure of water pumps and expansion tanks that some of us experience.

Let's face one thing. BMW certainly can't claim to guarantee we're free of cooling related issues using the OE maintenance intervals, fluids and parts.

And of course, there's always the blithering idiot who would rather guess about what works, what doesn't, and speculate about what may or may not cause certain parts to fail prematurely. BMW isn't perfect, no manufacturer is, but they are certainly in a better position to perform the engineering analysis necessary to speak on these topics with authority than any member here.

Originally Posted by TxZHP04

And of course, there's always the blithering idiot who would rather guess about what works, what doesn't, and speculate about what may or may not cause certain parts to fail prematurely. BMW isn't perfect, no manufacturer is, but they are certainly in a better position to perform the engineering analysis necessary to speak on these topics with authority than any member here.

haha

If BMW would speak and act by providing a list of approved aftermarket coolant products that are available in North America (where their dominant market is), as BMW NA owners we would be better served.

Its a pity they don't.

Originally Posted by TxZHP04

And of course, there's always the blithering idiot who would rather guess about what works, what doesn't, and speculate about what may or may not cause certain parts to fail prematurely. BMW isn't perfect, no manufacturer is, but they are certainly in a better position to perform the engineering analysis necessary to speak on these topics with authority than any member here.