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General E46 Forum
This is the place to get answers, opinions and everything you need related to your E46 (sedan, coupe, convertible and wagon) BMW!

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Old 05-07-2013, 02:17 AM   #2561
greymda
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several months ago the chain slipped and i have to rebuild my engine.
but it was okay then.

later, my ccv died and the engine ate smth like 2 litres of oil in just 15 minutes. i refilled it, but maybe the vanos was running without oil for smth like 10-15 minutes.

the oil (when we've changed the CAMs, i checked the oil) seems pretty normal. moreover, since the ccv died i renewed the oil with 4 litres of brand-new oil 5W40 LL01/04.
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Old 05-07-2013, 02:20 AM   #2562
greymda
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AN UPDATE:
lately i have a error with KNOCK SENSOR.
don't know if it's important.


UPDATE2:
after first replacement of CAMs - the error on intake gone.
then we replaced only EXHAUST CAM, and i got both the errors back.
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Old 05-25-2013, 10:25 AM   #2563
neutron325
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Hey guys,

I'm about to replace my vanos with a unit from DRVANOS

The Bentley Manual says to have air pressure connected to the vanos unit when putting the engine at TDC. I am assuming that is to keep the intake cam vanos piston fully retracted. How important is this step?

I am replacing the pressure hose that connects to the vanos, so I can use the old one to make an air line adapter if needed.

Am I worrying too much?

Any input appreciated!
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Old 05-25-2013, 10:26 AM   #2564
neutron325
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Hey guys,

I'm about to replace my vanos with a unit from DRVANOS

The Bentley Manual says to have air pressure connected to the vanos unit when putting the engine at TDC. I am assuming that is to keep the intake cam vanos piston fully retracted. How important is this step?

I am replacing the pressure hose that connects to the vanos, so I can use the old one to make an air line adapter if needed.

Am I worrying too much?

Any input appreciated!
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Old 05-25-2013, 10:51 AM   #2565
MMMGP
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I recently completed the E46 double VANOS seals and anti-rattle fix. I followed the BS procedure and did not TDC the motor. No issues here... I'm still getting a small rattle during acceleration but I think my DISA valve is on the way out.
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Old 05-25-2013, 06:13 PM   #2566
Rajaie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neutron325 View Post
Hey guys,

I'm about to replace my vanos with a unit from DRVANOS

The Bentley Manual says to have air pressure connected to the vanos unit when putting the engine at TDC. I am assuming that is to keep the intake cam vanos piston fully retracted. How important is this step?

I am replacing the pressure hose that connects to the vanos, so I can use the old one to make an air line adapter if needed.

Am I worrying too much?

Any input appreciated!
You don't need to do any of that. Just follow the Beisan instructions.
http://www.beisansystems.com/procedu..._procedure.htm
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Old 08-21-2013, 07:43 AM   #2567
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Rajaie, question for you.

I recently installed your Beisan Vanos seals and everything was running smoothly, with noticeably more torque from 2100rpm, and less "drag" when having the AC on.

Yesterday while driving on the highway in 5th gear, I was approaching 2000rpm (at about 80% throttle), and there was a HUGE jerk/hesitation. Cars behind and beside me would have no problem noticing the car bouncing.

I tried reproducing the symptom twice, again at 2000rpm, and both times the car had a very noticeable hesitation while pasing through this RPM range. My first instinct told me something was wrong with the Vanos seals, perhaps one of them had snapped, or otherwise re-seated.

After this incident, the torque that seemed to have been restored is.. well, gone.
What do you suggest in this situation? Is there procedure I can follow to check if what I suspect happened actually did?
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Old 08-21-2013, 12:22 PM   #2568
Rajaie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stiggles View Post
Rajaie, question for you.

I recently installed your Beisan Vanos seals and everything was running smoothly, with noticeably more torque from 2100rpm, and less "drag" when having the AC on.

Yesterday while driving on the highway in 5th gear, I was approaching 2000rpm (at about 80% throttle), and there was a HUGE jerk/hesitation. Cars behind and beside me would have no problem noticing the car bouncing.

I tried reproducing the symptom twice, again at 2000rpm, and both times the car had a very noticeable hesitation while pasing through this RPM range. My first instinct told me something was wrong with the Vanos seals, perhaps one of them had snapped, or otherwise re-seated.

After this incident, the torque that seemed to have been restored is.. well, gone.
What do you suggest in this situation? Is there procedure I can follow to check if what I suspect happened actually did?
Your vanos seals are most likely fine. We don't see any issues.
You most likely developed another problem. Likely vacuum leak related.
Here is a list of common performance problems. Check the idle control valve air intake boot, crankcase vent valve and 4 hoses, and DISA.

The idle control valve air intake boot branch gets cracks in the outer elbow accordion valleys. This can be inspected with a flashlight and mirror.

The idle control valve gets gummed up and sticks. Take it out and clean it with brake cleaner and towels.

The DISA valve is problematic on 01+ 3.0l cars.
The DISA is a black box 4" high 6" wide on the side of the intake manifold adjacent to the MAF. Remove it. The flap should rotate with resistance and spring back when released. It shouldn't have any play. It breaks at its base axis. If itís broken, the flap end axis pin can be removed and the flap will fall off.
The 01+ DISA has a base gasket built into the DISA. It shrinks over time and creates a small vacuum leak. Place an 8" piece of electrical tape on a table top. Cut the tape half width with a razor knife. Place one layer of half width electrical tape over the base gasket. This will thicken the gasket and create a tight seal with the intake manifold.

The crankcase vent valve and 4 associate hoses fail and cause a vacuum leak. The valve gets stuck open and the hoses crack. These last 70-120k miles and usually fail 80-90k miles. Here are a couple diagnoses.
At warm idle, place a small plastic freezer storage bag on its side over the oil fill hole. If the bag sits on top or gets slightly sucked in, ~1Ē, the valve is good. If the bag gets significantly sucked in the hole the valve is stuck open and bad.
With the engine off and cold, carefully remove the hose at the valve cover front corner. Blow hard into the hose. You should hear oil bubbling in the oil pan. If you donít hear the bubbling the top or bottom hose is likely cracked. The bottom hose often breaks just below the valve connection. There can also be cracks in the other two hoses.

The MAF sensor can be dirty and not perform well or can be failing. Aftermarket oiled air filters foul the MAF.
Take out the MAF and clean it with CRC MAF spray cleaner. Spray the MAF lightly. There are delicate wires that can be damaged. Let the MAF fully dry before reconnecting.
Cold air intake setups can drive the MAF beyond its intended operating limits and cause it to fail.
The MAF can be tested by disconnecting its electrical cable connector. If the performance problem resolves it might be the MAF. But this test can be deceiving and should be used with great care. When the MAF is disconnected the DME will err on enriching the air/fuel mix. This can easily cover up another performance problem like a vacuum leak. If the problem is unchanged after disconnecting the MAF the problem is not the MAF.
Aftermarket MAF sensors donít work.

The fuel filter gets clogged and inhibits the flow of fuel. Replace it every 60-100k miles.

Sparkplugs should be replaced every 60k miles.

Replace air filter every 15k miles.

Pre-cat O2 sensors have a lifespan of 100k miles. They have a significant effect on fuel consumption. They also affect performance. When they start degrading they cause a rich air/fuel mix. This will degrade performance some but will not cause any rough running symptoms. The main symptom is degraded fuel consumption.
The pre-cat O2 sensors are not used on cold weather cold start. The O2 sensors donít function when cold and are thus not utilized by the DME.
Aftermarket O2 sensors donít work.

Camshaft position sensors can fail and cause problems. They will usually produce a code, but they might initially malfunction without producing a code. A failing exhaust CPS will cause light performance problems. A failing intake CPS can cause significant performance problems.
Aftermarket CPS sensors donít work. OEM CPS sensors are only available through BMW. OEM CPS sensors have a BMW logo or series of numbers and this can be used to check if a CPS sensor is OEM.
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Old 08-21-2013, 01:11 PM   #2569
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^ Thanks for the suggestions. I've gone over the general problem areas already.

Another new thing for my car, I'm about halfway on the dipstick.
Before the Vanos seals procedure, not a drop would be gone between oil changes.
(all optional parts/gaskets purchased and replaced at time of seals change)

I'm trying to see if there have been other cases similar to mine in the past
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Old 08-21-2013, 01:16 PM   #2570
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stiggles View Post
^ Thanks for the suggestions. I've gone over the general problem areas already.

Another new thing for my car, I'm about halfway on the dipstick.
Before the Vanos seals procedure, not a drop would be gone between oil changes.
(all optional parts/gaskets purchased and replaced at time of seals change)

I'm trying to see if there have been other cases similar to mine in the past
Your symptoms can be caused by many things. Most likely vacuum leak related. Many people have experienced these symptoms.

Loss of engine oil is often due to crankcase vent valve and 4 hoses failure.
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Old 08-21-2013, 01:24 PM   #2571
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stiggles View Post

Another new thing for my car, I'm about halfway on the dipstick.
Before the Vanos seals procedure, not a drop would be gone between oil changes.
Perhaps cracked the VC CVV tube when you did the vanos? It gets brittle.
Even if you did the vanos incorrectly, it's a closed system on both sides of the pistons, you wouldn't lose oil there.
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Old 09-10-2013, 07:23 PM   #2572
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Congrats,Rajaie

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rajaie View Post
As many of you know E46 6-cylinder cars are experiencing a vanos problem. A friend and I diagnosed this problem three years back. Hereís the link where we made our findings public. http://bimmer.roadfly.com/bmw/forums/e39/7494631-2.html

The double vanos in question is part # 11-36-1-440-142, and is found on 6-cyl engines M52TU, M54, M56. These engines are all found on E46 models. If you have an E46 6-cylinder (non-diesel, non-M3) then you have one of these engines and implicitly this vanos.
On M52TU cars, 99-00, the failing vanos is manifesting cold weather cold engine start idle jolts and possible stall. I expect most 99-00 owners have experienced this symptom. On cold mornings the DME utilizes the vanos to help warm up the cats to bring them to operating temperature faster. When the vanos malfunctions the DME reacts badly and causes the idle jolts and possible stall. This scenario was addressed in the subsequent engines M54 and M56 with a software patch to address the DME reaction to the failing vanos. There is also apparently an update to the M52TU software that also addresses the symptom.
The failing vanos will reduce torque and power, particularly in the lower RPM range (< 3K). Hiccups and hesitations are also experienced in the lower RPM range (< 3k). Owners are now also beginning to encounter fault codes caused by the failing vanos. These codes are all related to the vanos exhaust side.
P1520 (BMW 104, 0x68): B (exhaust) Camshaft Position Actuator (faulty reference value).
P1523 (BMW 106, 0x6A): B (exhaust) Camshaft Position Actuator Tight or Jammed (mechanically stuck).
P1397 (BMW 18, 0x12): Camshaft Position Sensor B (exhaust) Circuit.
The Camshaft Position Sensor (CPS) is a common failure. But if replacing the exhaust CPS (w/ OEM CPS) doesnít work then itís likely the vanos failure.

The vanos failure is due to deteriorating vanos piston seals. The seals are a combination of outer Teflon seal ring and underneath supporting O-ring. The O-rings are hardening, shrinking, and having flat top and bottom surfaces. This causes them to lose their supporting function to the Teflon seals. This causes the piston seal function to fail and in turn the vanos function to fail.
The OEM O-rings were tested for material makeup and were found to be made from Buna-N (Nitrile, NBR). This material is not compatible with the engine synthetic oil and high temperature. The high temperature in particular is causing its failure.

BMW was engaged for some period regarding this matter but has indicated they have no intention of addressing the issue.
http://bimmer.roadfly.com/bmw/forums/e39/7613395-2.html

The O-rings can be replaced with a better material to withstand the synthetic oil and high temperatures, but to replace the underneath O-rings the outer Teflon seals need to be removed and necessarily damaged. Thus the Teflon seals also need to be replaced in the process. The Teflon seals are significantly more expensive than the O-rings and need to be semi-custom manufactured. This has to be done in large volumes (thousands) to even approach a reasonable cost.
I have taken the initiative in the past two years to pursue this endeavor and have succeeded in reverse engineering the seals and producing a seals repair kit that addresses the vanos failure. Here is the post where I recently introduced this solution.
http://bimmer.roadfly.com/bmw/forums/e39/8705552-2.html

Here is the website for the company I created to vend the product: http://www.beisansystems.com
You will find more information there, including a repair procedure: http://www.beisansystems.com/procedu..._procedure.htm
The procedure currently addressed the E46 with the electric fan. I hope to update it soon to show the E46 mechanical fan. For now the E39 mechanical fan removal can be referenced.

The vanos seals repair kit currently costs $60, plus $5 US shipping. It addresses all the known vanos failure symptoms. Owners have also been quite please with the performance enhancements attained from the repair.
A new (rebuilt) vanos will solve the vanos failure, but a new vanos costs ~$500. Even more problematic, a new vanos still comes with the same failing Buna O-rings. Numerous owners have installed new vanos units only to have them fail again. I inspected my new vanos seals after 20k miles and found them to be significantly degraded.

I will be happy to answer any questions. Please take the time to read the information in the referenced links.
In the future, please direct your questions to the vanos forum referenced by the Beisan website.

This is my first post on this forum.
I'm just amazed about this VANOS seal problem.After reading all of the VANOS posts here,and just returning from the german Beisansystem.de site in Germany,and reading all of their posts in german,which is my first lang,I can not believe that BMW never changed the BUTAN O-rings to VITON O-rings.But BMW is still my 1. choice in automobiles.
Rajaie,you will be happy to know,that all of the posts I read on the german site,were very positive.I have no more excuses...I have to get rid of those bloody OEM-O-rings.
My car is a 330ci m54 2001 with 204000 miles on it.My idle is solid,never really listened for any VANOS rattle.Could use some advice,how or what to listen for.The only power problem the engine ever had was a faulty exhaust
camshaft positioner.Changing that part really gave me some horses back.
Again,I really don't have any of those problems even with so many miles on it,some other people are complaining about.But since it is time to change the valve cover gasket(never done on this engine,but small pockets of oil in the back) it would be stupid,in my opinion not to do the Vanos seals.
And,Rajaie...would I not gain even more horses back!?

Does this site have a spell checker,I think I messed up somewhere.
Anyway,I will order the Seal kit today.

blubaron out._nr_
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Old 09-11-2013, 10:42 PM   #2573
Rajaie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blubaron View Post
This is my first post on this forum.
I'm just amazed about this VANOS seal problem.After reading all of the VANOS posts here,and just returning from the german Beisansystem.de site in Germany,and reading all of their posts in german,which is my first lang,I can not believe that BMW never changed the BUTAN O-rings to VITON O-rings.But BMW is still my 1. choice in automobiles.
Rajaie,you will be happy to know,that all of the posts I read on the german site,were very positive.I have no more excuses...I have to get rid of those bloody OEM-O-rings.
My car is a 330ci m54 2001 with 204000 miles on it.My idle is solid,never really listened for any VANOS rattle.Could use some advice,how or what to listen for.The only power problem the engine ever had was a faulty exhaust
camshaft positioner.Changing that part really gave me some horses back.
Again,I really don't have any of those problems even with so many miles on it,some other people are complaining about.But since it is time to change the valve cover gasket(never done on this engine,but small pockets of oil in the back) it would be stupid,in my opinion not to do the Vanos seals.
And,Rajaie...would I not gain even more horses back!?

Does this site have a spell checker,I think I messed up somewhere.
Anyway,I will order the Seal kit today.

blubaron out._nr_
Good to hear German owners are having good results with the Beisan products.
I'm not sure what you're referring to by beisansystems.de

I can tell you that the vanos OEM piston seals fully fail by 20k miles and thus all the cars have failed vanos seals.
The vast majority of owners that replace the vanos seals gain performance improvements and usually significant performance improvements.
I know if there is another engine performance problem the benefits of the new seals aren't achieved until the problem is resolved.
Given that, there are still some owners that don't perceive benefits and don't seem to have another performance problem. I have not been able to explain this phenomenon.

All the vanos OEM piston bearings have axial play. The camshaft engages this play back and forth. If these movements achieve a resonance a rattle occurs. It usually occurs at idle or ~2k RPM. We know from experience that some models are susceptible to it while others don't seem to get it.
On the E46 the 323 gets it at idle and the 330 gets it at ~2k RPM. The 325 has also been known to get it at ~2k RPM. The 328 can get it on cold start then it goes away once the engine warms up.
But a car that's susceptible to the rattle might never get it and a car that's not susceptible to the rattle might have it. It's all about achieving the resonance, and very little dynamic change can either create it or stop it.

Good luck on the repair and let me know if you have any questions.
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Old 09-12-2013, 12:06 AM   #2574
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Thanks for your quick reply.It turns out,that the german version of beisansystems is actually the same as the US version.So,it looks
to me,that a german reader will go to your site,and click the word Deutsch on the upper right hand,Deutsch=German.
This b.t.w. is the website in germany,where I found all the good news about your proper seals.

http://www.bmw-syndikat.de/bmwsyndik...chTerms=beisan
Just found out,that the seals are on the way to my mailbox.Thanks again,Rajaie.

blubaron out.
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Old 09-12-2013, 12:33 AM   #2575
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stiggles View Post
Rajaie, question for you.

I recently installed your Beisan Vanos seals and everything was running smoothly, with noticeably more torque from 2100rpm, and less "drag" when having the AC on.

Yesterday while driving on the highway in 5th gear, I was approaching 2000rpm (at about 80% throttle), and there was a HUGE jerk/hesitation. Cars behind and beside me would have no problem noticing the car bouncing.

I tried reproducing the symptom twice, again at 2000rpm, and both times the car had a very noticeable hesitation while pasing through this RPM range. My first instinct told me something was wrong with the Vanos seals, perhaps one of them had snapped, or otherwise re-seated.

After this incident, the torque that seemed to have been restored is.. well, gone.
What do you suggest in this situation? Is there procedure I can follow to check if what I suspect happened actually did?

mine has this same jerking. you have a 328 as well right? please let me know if you find the cause.
a while back i had a similar problem and replaced the plugs which fixed it. however it's doing it again and it's only been 20k miles, if that.
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Old 09-12-2013, 06:29 AM   #2576
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stinger9 View Post
Perhaps cracked the VC CVV tube when you did the vanos? It gets brittle.
Even if you did the vanos incorrectly, it's a closed system on both sides of the pistons, you wouldn't lose oil there.
CCV is fine, and I'm keeping my fingers crossed for this winter (first one for this car). I also have the hot climate version.

Quote:
Originally Posted by peytonracer4 View Post
mine has this same jerking. you have a 328 as well right? please let me know if you find the cause.
a while back i had a similar problem and replaced the plugs which fixed it. however it's doing it again and it's only been 20k miles, if that.
I drive the 325. Kind of stopped looking for the jerk, and I can't reproduce it anymore. Driving with the A/C on is almost the same as it was before.

Perhaps my old seals were fine, and this whole thing was a placebo.
I really notice on hot days the car bogs down. On cool mornings she behaves like a 330.
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Old 09-12-2013, 07:00 AM   #2577
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Suggest that fuel filter change interval be 30-40k miles or every 3 years. BMW has a longer change interval, but these filters are TOO fine and they usually have a lot of black sludge in them when changed even at the 60k change interval.

Would question fuel pump and fuel level as another possible problem area.

Also for anyone that claims the car runs much better cold, would consider a IAT relocation as higher IAT temps will cause ignition timing to be dramatically retarded and just a few degrees of timing advance and make all sorts of power.

Heat soak on the IAT can really kill performance.

Graph ignition timing over RPM and throttle angle and compare cold to hot and I would bet the ignition timing is backed off under the warmer conditions by as much as 5 degrees as compared to the colder, more responsive engine.
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Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temps, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

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Old 09-12-2013, 07:40 AM   #2578
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Originally Posted by jfoj View Post
Suggest that fuel filter change interval be 30-40k miles or every 3 years. BMW has a longer change interval, but these filters are TOO fine and they usually have a lot of black sludge in them when changed even at the 60k change interval.

Would question fuel pump and fuel level as another possible problem area.

Also for anyone that claims the car runs much better cold, would consider a IAT relocation as higher IAT temps will cause ignition timing to be dramatically retarded and just a few degrees of timing advance and make all sorts of power.

Heat soak on the IAT can really kill performance.

Graph ignition timing over RPM and throttle angle and compare cold to hot and I would bet the ignition timing is backed off under the warmer conditions by as much as 5 degrees as compared to the colder, more responsive engine.
I'm interested. Are there any threads divulging into the IAT's relocation?

Also, I changed the fuel filter 1k ago with OEM parts.
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Old 09-12-2013, 10:32 AM   #2579
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Hey Rajae, what would be the outcome if I ever so slightly knicked the edges of the vanos pistons when doing this job on my wife's car? Very very small knicks about 3 of them from the blade i was using to remove the old seals. Could this potentially cause the car to stall after doing the seals replacement? It's been running for more than a month now, but has recently stalled out a few times. I am wondering if it has anything to do with the knicks I made. The seals appeared to protrude out of the pistons enough so that the knicks would never come in contact with the piston sleeve, but I cannot see what is happening inside the engine, so I don't exactly know the outcome of what these knicks would be.. thanks.
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Old 09-12-2013, 10:34 AM   #2580
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Originally Posted by peytonracer4 View Post
mine has this same jerking. you have a 328 as well right? please let me know if you find the cause.
a while back i had a similar problem and replaced the plugs which fixed it. however it's doing it again and it's only been 20k miles, if that.
Shiiiit I too have the same issue with my wife's car!! But hers was happening before i replaced the seals, and is still happening after. F. Her plugs were disgusting, so I replaced them too, car still doing this "jerk" every once in awhile.
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