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General E46 Forum
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Old 02-29-2008, 04:58 PM   #261
Lemonsqr
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Yes I should have mentioned that it must be done at WOT - totally floored.
What if I am boosted with none OEM software?
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Old 02-29-2008, 05:06 PM   #262
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What if I am boosted with none OEM software?
What do you have?
I don't think it should matter cause you'll be the one running the test before and after.
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Old 02-29-2008, 05:12 PM   #263
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What do you have?
I don't think it should matter cause you'll be the one running the test before and after.
TS1 soon to be TS2. Planning on doing the Vanos seals before TS2 install, so the runs will be with a TS1...I'll see what I can do, no promises yet though.
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Old 03-02-2008, 10:40 AM   #264
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In response to the no power gain, i hear alot about the low end power gain from the people who install them, so that wouldn't neccasserily yeild higher peak numbers right? Have you looked strictly at the lower end number (<3000 rpm) to see if there was a in that area? Kinda hard to explain when your half asleep but its just a thought
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Old 03-02-2008, 12:53 PM   #265
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In response to the no power gain, i hear alot about the low end power gain from the people who install them, so that wouldn't neccasserily yeild higher peak numbers right? Have you looked strictly at the lower end number (<3000 rpm) to see if there was a in that area? Kinda hard to explain when your half asleep but its just a thought
Correct - that's why I devised a method to measure any speed gains while the car is running WOT between 1000 and 3000 rpm.
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Old 03-05-2008, 10:52 PM   #266
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Well I took advantage of a cold but sunny day to do the job. All in all it was pretty easy. Suprisingly my old seals (little less than 50k) weren't too bad. They still felt rubbery and neither piston was really loose in the bore. Maybe the previous owner had the VANOS unit replaced before I got it.

I didn't feel any power gains yet (might feel a bit more responsive, but I'll write that off as placebo until I get 500 miles on in), and there is still an ever so slight vibration at 2k under load, but it's barely noticeable now.

All in all I'm glad I did it as it gave me something to do, and since they would have failed anyways, it's good to replace'em.

I've only put about 5 miles on it so far, so I'll report back after the 500 break-in.
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Old 03-06-2008, 12:02 AM   #267
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This is seaming simpler everytime someone reports on it.
I should man up and do mine soon.
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Old 03-06-2008, 01:49 AM   #268
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TS1 soon to be TS2. Planning on doing the Vanos seals before TS2 install, so the runs will be with a TS1...I'll see what I can do, no promises yet though.
Thannks for the video - when I have time I'll superimpose a timer on the video and we'll compare after you do the install and AFTER the break-in period and we'll know exactly what gains there are.
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Old 03-06-2008, 05:35 AM   #269
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Thumbs Up First impression: Very Satisfied.

At last, I have gone thru changing my vanos seals. I think it is a bit early to jump to conclusions, as I only drove the car for 10 Miles, but the first impression so far is very satisfying and the best one worth all the trouble was that NO MORE IDLE JOLTS & stalls…
To begin with, let me give you a bit long overview. Lately, my car was behaving really badly. With 128K on it, and being a Steptronic 328CI 2000, it was the most critical case of this problem. I have had the car since 5 months, and when it got cold over here, I began to notice the cold starts idle jolts and stalling. But recently, and for 2 mornings, it had been acting very more offensively (if I can say that), like the idle would keep on rough ups and downs, even if I got my foot lightly on the gas pedal, I could not keep it steady, (before, I could slightly rev it at about 1.2k and that would do the job).
I have been to many BMW shops since the winter started. (3 to be specific) …. One said we would be better off changing the vanos and getting an upgrade for the software. (I didn’t know at that time about the vanos seals solution). Another said that before going thru the vanos proc, which he thought was a big job to do, maybe we would better try to clean the MAF sensor and/or change the Adjuster unit… The third, (to whom I give him a great for performing the job and becoming a friend of mine), worked on my car a month ago, put it on scanner, and found the cam shaft sensor fault. He changed the cam shaft sensor, with no results unfortunately. The fault went off, but the problem persisted.
That’s when I came searching thru this wonderful site, and I thank you all for this rich and various information. To be honest, I was a little bit afraid, just thinking about diagnosing a car problem and trying to fix it at some kind of 6380 miles away (yes, I am not in the USA )…But I just said, what the heck, if it doesn’t work, it will not get worse . And the problem description on the Beisan’s site was very close to mine. Sincerely, I didn’t know how the car must drive, and when Rajaie spoke about hiccups, I couldn’t feel it, cos (if someone drives a step he would understand what I am talking about) with a step, you lose the direct feeling with your engine and its power (pity! But I drive mostly if not always in traffic jams, so step is way more comfortable). Sorry if I am giving too much details, but I need to say it and share it with somebody.
So, Yesterday was Day “D” for me. My friend worked on the car, with me on his side, watching and nagging him to pay attention, not to spill oil, keep the engine clean,.. taking care of all the bolts… and all that stuff, (again to him for withstanding me all that time, to Rajaie for his hard work and cooperation, the DIY with the least details). From my point of view, it was not an easy work, not difficult, but not easy. You have to work slowly, carefully, and be nice and clean with the engine, especially with the engine cover off. I had a little bit of sludge on top of the vanos unit, just a thin coat. We cleaned it and everything else. We tried to test if the piston was loose, but with no black on white evidence. I found the trickiest part was removing the old vanos seals. Surprisingly, as MatthewLFD mentioned, they weren’t, or at least did not appear, that bad. They stretched while trying to remove it. We got even a slight scratch on the first piston we worked on, we polished it as much as we could afterwards (sanding paper with a very fine grain). We took much more care of the second one trying not to scratch it. But when off, the seals would break like plastic if you bend them more than 2 times. The valve cover gasket went into pieces while removing it. As to the Vanos gasket, we didn’t replace it, as it is made from like some metal product, better than the paper-cartoon-like new one we brought. So Fady, (the mechanic), advised to keep the old one while applying some sort of liquid bonding stuff to it. He replaced the spark plugs also, which seemed like they have never been touched or changed (the bmw NGK stuff still written on it).
So, after 5 hours , 2 coffee breaks, and a bunch of non-relative-to-this-issue phone calls (mentioned here to tell you they just lost our time), we came to what I was waiting for:
Starting the engine: Guess what? Yeah. It is a completely new car. It idles perfectly , and it seemed to me the engine sound was softer (maybe it is only in my head ). No more idle jolts and stalls. But again, I wasn’t 100% sure, as the weather outside was warm. So I waited till this morning, and with the same satisfying results. Drove my car to work, (the 10 miles I mentioned above), and it seems to me the engine delivered its power smoothly, I bet it is like that that my car have to drive. And all that time, I was thinking the step was changing gears, and it was just hiccups (joking). No seriously, now I understand those hiccups Rajaie spoke of. I couldn’t feel it before because it was dampened and softened by the step clutches. But now I feel the difference, very smooth power delivery. Now, I don’t know if it is due only to the vanos seals or maybe changing the spark plugs have something to do with it also. Anyway, first impression, I am very pleased, happy and I am loving my car again. Will post after the break in period. (I know I know, don’t shout at me : “NO Please don’t!!!”. Next time I promise I will be brief )….. Sorry for this big post.
And again, my thanks for Rajaie, Fady (my Mech buddy), and to all of you guys on this wonderful forum.
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Old 03-06-2008, 06:30 AM   #270
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sweeeeettt, funny enough i had shops suggest the same fixes.
one even suggested i pay them $1300 + to take off my head and clean out all sludge and build up. yeah right, im so doing this
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Old 03-10-2008, 09:04 AM   #271
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Thannks for the video - when I have time I'll superimpose a timer on the video and we'll compare after you do the install and AFTER the break-in period and we'll know exactly what gains there are.
I just sent you a couple video. Unfortunately, replacing the seals did not get rid of the engine vibrations I have at idle or make the engine sound more quiet So far I have only 100miles on the new seals. However, I think the engine is running a bit smoother and may have a little more torque <3000rpm by the butt dyno, but I wouldnt say it is night and day like others have claimed. I am curious what the video timing will show. Once I rack up >500miles, I'll try and get another video to send to you.

My tip for those who are thinking about doing this as a DIY, when it comes time to remove the old seals from the pistons, just take an exacto knife to them while they are inside the groove. Dont waste your time following the instructions on the site trying to fish them out of the grooves to cut them.
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Old 03-10-2008, 09:40 AM   #272
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I'm just another satisfied customer, installed the seals about a month ago, and 1000 miles in, the light is gone, power is back, and no more idle hunting!
Woo!
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Old 03-10-2008, 11:13 AM   #273
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My tip for those who are thinking about doing this as a DIY, when it comes time to remove the old seals from the pistons, just take an exacto knife to them while they are inside the groove. Dont waste your time following the instructions on the site trying to fish them out of the grooves to cut them.
Oh yea, I was going to mention that as well. I couldn't get the pick method to work at all and was constantly afraid of scratching the piston.
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Old 03-10-2008, 11:22 AM   #274
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Oh yea, I was going to mention that as well. I couldn't get the pick method to work at all and was constantly afraid of scratching the piston.
+1 (Check my post)
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Old 03-10-2008, 11:30 AM   #275
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I have recently modified the procedure to include a second strait pick tool. This is used to hold the seal in place to keep it from rotating, while the second pick tool pries under and lifts the seal to cut. This is now more effective.

I have tried the razor method. It does work better than prying out with the pick tool. I am considering adding this to the procedure. I am concerned that using a razor might concern some owners.

The significant performance improvements are received after the seals break-in period. Little happens before then.
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Old 03-10-2008, 11:56 AM   #276
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Originally Posted by Rajaie View Post
I have recently modified the procedure to include a second strait pick tool. This is used to hold the seal in place to keep it from rotating, while the second pick tool pries under and lifts the seal to cut. This is now more effective.

I have tried the razor method. It does work better than prying out with the pick tool. I am considering adding this to the procedure. I am concerned that using a razor might concern some owners.

The significant performance improvements are received after the seals break-in period. Little happens before then.
We'll be sure to take another video after the break-in.
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Old 03-10-2008, 11:59 AM   #277
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Got my seals in the mail today. I'm excited to get them in. My idle is driving me crazy.
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Old 03-10-2008, 12:19 PM   #278
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Where are these videos that people are mentioning? I don't see any links...

Am I just missing them?
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Old 03-10-2008, 12:25 PM   #279
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You have to fire one shot in the air and say the magic chant.... YOU KILLED THE INVISIBLE SWORDSMAN!

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Where are these videos that people are mentioning? I don't see any links...

Am I just missing them?
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Old 03-10-2008, 01:15 PM   #280
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Originally Posted by Rajaie View Post
I have recently modified the procedure to include a second strait pick tool. This is used to hold the seal in place to keep it from rotating, while the second pick tool pries under and lifts the seal to cut. This is now more effective.

I have tried the razor method. It does work better than prying out with the pick tool. I am considering adding this to the procedure. I am concerned that using a razor might concern some owners..
This would be a good addition to the procedure, of course there is the danger of slicing your hand and/or scoring the piston a bit since the razor is harder than the piston. However, I am comfortable using a razor so this was easy for me

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The significant performance improvements are received after the seals break-in period. Little happens before then.
I look forward to this and JsonLi and I will work on videoing this to compare to before.
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