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General E46 Forum
This is the place to get answers, opinions and everything you need related to your E46 (sedan, coupe, convertible and wagon) BMW!

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Old 12-16-2007, 06:53 PM   #61
Rajaie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GWU_Greek View Post
Raj,

I already ordered the vanos seal repair kit because I used to have this problem ALL winter last year. However, I recently changed my oil seperator and noticed that the cold start issue never came back eventhough the temperature around here are in the lows 20s in the morning.

I am going to replace the vanos seal nevertheless but I have a question. Based on my research I found that a leaking or bad oil seperator (aka crankcase ventilator) will cause sludge to built up. the oil seperator removes moisture from your crankcase. if it is defective then air and moisture will form and propagate the formation of sludge in our m54/m52TU engines. Beside, the sludge problem a bad oil seperator will cause a vacum leak and thus will cause an abnormal start up hesitation.

Is this true?
I seriously doubt a new CVV valve will resolve the vanos cold engine start idle problems. I have a new CVV with new hoses. Iíve performed lots of seals testing. When I have old seals (pistons) I get the idle problems. When I have new seals I donít have the idle problems.

Fuel injector cleaner has been known to temporarily solve the idle problems. Buna O-rings are susceptible to many harsh chemicals. These chemicals will cause the O-rings to swell. This swelling will initially act beneficially. The vanos Buna O-rings have significant compression set, flat top and bottom surfaces, and shrinkage. The swelling will increase their size and cause them to provide better support and seal to the Teflon seals.
But this is all temporary. The presence of the fuel injector cleaner will diminish, and the O-rings will lose their swell. The injector cleaner will have acted determinately on the O-rings. It will have dissolved from them the components that give them their elasticity. Thus although there is temporary improvement, the end result will be the hastening of the O-ring demise.

The DME utilizes the vanos to help heat up the cats faster on cold engine starts. It is at this time that the idle problems occur due to the failing vanos.
The DME does not perform this vanos maneuver immediately at startup. It waits until the engine warms sufficiently to handle the vanos (timing) maneuvers. Thus the colder the temperature, the colder the engine, and the longer the engine needs to warm up before the DME performs the vanos maneuvers.
It might be that you are not waiting long enough to allow the engine to warm up to the point where the vanos is used to heat up the cats. When the car is driven the idle problems donít occur, unless the car soon comes to a stop and idles again.
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Old 12-17-2007, 12:21 PM   #62
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Anyone from this site installed this yet on their E46?
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Old 12-17-2007, 12:27 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLVR ZHP View Post
Anyone from this site installed this yet on their E46?
Car is in the shop for a few different things as we speak... the new and improved rattle-proof VANOS with the new Viton seals from Dr. Vanos is on the list. I should have some first impressions later today, and I'll be posting updates in this thread as I go through the break-in period for the seals.
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Old 12-17-2007, 02:03 PM   #64
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My seal kit is on the way from Rajaie and the other misc. gaskets are on the way from the dealer.

I hope to do the rebuild this coming weekend. I will be posting feedback as soon as it is complete.

Matt

Quote:
Originally Posted by SLVR ZHP View Post
Anyone from this site installed this yet on their E46?
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Old 12-18-2007, 10:55 AM   #65
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Watching this topic for feedback, will have to do this after I'm done with my diff bushings
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Old 12-18-2007, 11:03 AM   #66
jbeurotech
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rajaie View Post
I seriously doubt a new CVV valve will resolve the vanos cold engine start idle problems. I have a new CVV with new hoses. Iíve performed lots of seals testing. When I have old seals (pistons) I get the idle problems. When I have new seals I donít have the idle problems.

Fuel injector cleaner has been known to temporarily solve the idle problems. Buna O-rings are susceptible to many harsh chemicals. These chemicals will cause the O-rings to swell. This swelling will initially act beneficially. The vanos Buna O-rings have significant compression set, flat top and bottom surfaces, and shrinkage. The swelling will increase their size and cause them to provide better support and seal to the Teflon seals.
But this is all temporary. The presence of the fuel injector cleaner will diminish, and the O-rings will lose their swell. The injector cleaner will have acted determinately on the O-rings. It will have dissolved from them the components that give them their elasticity. Thus although there is temporary improvement, the end result will be the hastening of the O-ring demise.

The DME utilizes the vanos to help heat up the cats faster on cold engine starts. It is at this time that the idle problems occur due to the failing vanos.
The DME does not perform this vanos maneuver immediately at startup. It waits until the engine warms sufficiently to handle the vanos (timing) maneuvers. Thus the colder the temperature, the colder the engine, and the longer the engine needs to warm up before the DME performs the vanos maneuvers.
It might be that you are not waiting long enough to allow the engine to warm up to the point where the vanos is used to heat up the cats. When the car is driven the idle problems donít occur, unless the car soon comes to a stop and idles again.
I have to ask where you get this info because the vanos has no effect on the catlist warm up. They use overlap from the vanos to control NOX when the car is running they uses secondary air to WARM up the cats. i know you have identified and issue with these cars but you seem to put all the blame on the vanos(yes it does cause alot of issues) However the Crank vent valve can cause cold start issues. Software can cause cold start issues and so can a failing fuel pump or 3/2 valve and even the MAF(no disconnecting it is not a valid test). The Crankcase vent valve when they fail cause an internal air leak that cause the computer to add way to much fuel and can cause stalls check engine lights or worse. So while the vanos is a REAL issue it is not the only thing. Please properly diagnosis the car before throwing parts and causing to the wind.
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Old 12-18-2007, 12:28 PM   #67
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Rajaie, the check engine light is not on. i was going to get the engine code read but then i though to myself, if the check engine light is not on then is there a code? Since its not really cold here in miami, i have no had the car stall, just last night that it was 59 degrees. the RMPs usually dont bounce around as much but the car does shake a lot when i turn the steering wheel in reverse only especially towards the maximum "turnage" of the steering wheel. also it almost always vibrates when the car is in drive, warm or cold and i am stopped. as soon as i accelerate it goes away. i have no idea what it could be. there are so many things it could be and most of them are only guesses. I know im probably no the only one but i cant find a definitive answer as to what it could be.
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Old 12-18-2007, 12:51 PM   #68
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Gaby
you're problem doesn't sound like vanos to me
if you're experiencing bogging when turning the wheel at a stand still or low speeds i would check to see what color your steering fluid is (atf). it may be brown or smell slightly burnt. i would flush that first to see if it helps, but it sounds like your steering pump is starting to go. but i suppose a failing or worn steering rack may load the pump and cause the same symptoms.
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Old 12-18-2007, 01:28 PM   #69
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roy, thanks how about the problem when im stopped in drive and the car vibrates, it happens at all temperatures. the steering problem agitates the rpms more, when im stopped at a light or something in drive the car vibrates and sometimes the rpms fluctuate. could it be the vanos?

steering wheel doesnt feel sluggish, it just makes the rpms fluctuate.
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Old 12-18-2007, 08:11 PM   #70
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Well, my first impression of new VANOS from Dr. Vanos with the improved Viton seals is that the car definitely feels a bit zippier than before, even though I'm nowhere near the 500 miles of city driving needed to break the seals in. Acceleration is definitely much smoother throughout the rpm range and the idling problems are of course gone. Seems like money well spent so far.
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Old 12-18-2007, 08:56 PM   #71
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^ Where did you have it installed and how much did it cost ya?
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Old 12-18-2007, 09:56 PM   #72
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Now I need to find a really good installer/mechanic who knows how and what he's doing in the New York and New Jersey area
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Old 12-18-2007, 10:02 PM   #73
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I got quoted $450 for the Dr. Vanos install. Does that sound right to you guys?
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Old 12-18-2007, 10:02 PM   #74
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I had it done at a local independent shop... was 4.6 hours of labor, presumably because the guy also did the timing adjustments which apparently aren't actually necessary. The car seems a little bit faster every time I drive it, dunno if that's because of the seals wearing in more or if it's all in my head but I like it.

Edit: $450 is about right. The guy I went to charged me $414... he usually knocks his labor rate down a bit but I guess he charged me damn near his usual rate, probably because I was supplying the parts myself. Really makes me wish I had the tools to do all of this stuff myself. Might have to invest in some the next time I need something done.

Last edited by TX; 12-18-2007 at 10:06 PM.
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Old 12-18-2007, 10:18 PM   #75
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^ Looks like I might do this then. So no more rattle/shake/rpm dip?
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Old 12-18-2007, 10:29 PM   #76
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Correct, though my VANOS never rattled in the first place. As far as I know, the rattle only occurs due to the more aggressive cams which come with the ZHP package. The extra machining cited on the Dr. Vanos site is supposed to prevent it from ever developing such a rattle in the case that I end up with higher profile cams in the future, though.
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Old 12-18-2007, 10:30 PM   #77
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please answer this! lol : So no more rattle/shake/rpm dip?[/QUOTE]
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Old 12-18-2007, 10:32 PM   #78
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mine rattles, i have no idea what it could be but i guess its this, or the MAF sensor or the idle control valve, the rattle disappears when i accelerate, could it be the seals then? the car doesnt really feel sluggish, its a 2001 sports 330ci and it rattles, so its not just the zhp
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Old 12-18-2007, 10:38 PM   #79
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After 7 years, your VANOS seals are more than likely shot. Replace it if you can afford it.
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Old 12-18-2007, 10:44 PM   #80
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i can, but would it fix the vibration i have during idle and ONLY in drive or reverse at a stop, not when im rolling.
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