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Old 09-13-2009, 08:52 PM   #1001
Hrvat
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Quick question.

After i re-installed everything, the car started up with no problems, idle perfect, no CEL's, drives just fine. Now I don't know if I am going crazy, but I gotta a feeling that the engine is much louder now, especially over 3000 rpm and it's very noticeable when I let off the gas and have the RPMs start falling down. Basically get the car up to 4000 RPMs and then let off the gas and as engine is winding down, the engine just sounds much louder than what I remember it from before

Could something be done wrong during the re-install that could make engine sound louder?
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so 2004 bmw's dont come with a diff?
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Old 09-13-2009, 11:56 PM   #1002
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Originally Posted by Hrvat View Post
Quick question.

After i re-installed everything, the car started up with no problems, idle perfect, no CEL's, drives just fine. Now I don't know if I am going crazy, but I gotta a feeling that the engine is much louder now, especially over 3000 rpm and it's very noticeable when I let off the gas and have the RPMs start falling down. Basically get the car up to 4000 RPMs and then let off the gas and as engine is winding down, the engine just sounds much louder than what I remember it from before

Could something be done wrong during the re-install that could make engine sound louder?
From your description you might have developed a vanos rattle. The 330i is susceptible to having a vanos rattle. In some cases a rattle can develop just after the seals repair. This can go away after the seals break in.

Have someone rev the engine and try to find the resonance RPM where the noise is loudest. Listen under the hood and try to isolate the location of the noise. A vanos rattle will come from under the valve cover front.
Beisan has a rattle kit that will significantly reduce a vanos rattle.

The vanos rattle is not common on double vanos cars, except for the ZHP. I've seen reports from 320i, 323i, and 330i owners that have the rattle. So I know they are susceptible to it. But I don't have a sense of what percentage of these cars will develop the rattle. So I'm not comfortable recommending these owners install the rattle kit with the seals kit.

Let us know what you find and if it is a vanos rattle if it improves after ~200 city miles.

Please consider removing the video from your sig. I find it very annoying to read posts while the video is displaying. You might also consider reducing the size of your sig. Thanks!

Congrats on the repair.
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Old 09-13-2009, 11:57 PM   #1003
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Did the replacement last night took me about three hours. went smoothly. two pics of under the valve cover. looks clean and no dirt or sludge.
Congrats!
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Old 09-14-2009, 12:05 AM   #1004
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Quote:
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Congrats!
was happy to find out that my cams had NO sludge

Vanos is a fairly easy thing to do; just some work involved. Probably the hardest thing I did on that install, was doing the intake boot. Omfg what a b!tch when you have large hands
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Old 09-14-2009, 09:42 AM   #1005
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Rajaie,

Thanks for the feedback. The noise doesn't sound like rattle, just engine sounds a lot louder. I will however listen for source of the noise with someone revving the car.
I've done over 500 miles on the car since vanos seals change.

Also, my primary reason why I changed seals was hopes of getting back low end torque. I had no idle issues before, even in cold weather (talking even down to -40C). I noticed no increase of low end torque, even after seals have been changed. I have no CELs either nor I had one.

What kind of sensors could cause lack of low end torque? I am thinking it might be a sensor that's still working, but not as good as it should. Let me know if this makes sense. If not, maybe you have something that I could check.

As for the sig, I just removed the GIF
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so 2004 bmw's dont come with a diff?
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Old 09-14-2009, 11:53 AM   #1006
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Im curious about your lack of low end torque, I did the vanos thing on sarurday and although they are not broken in I have been experimenting with the car to identify the ways that it has changed. This morning I found that I was able to accerlerate in fifth gear from less than 1500 rpm without the engine lugging, not fast but it pulled smoothly from that rpm. Will your car do that or is there not enough torque? My car sounds no different after the vanos rebuild except that it SEEMS quieter as I am able to keep the engine at lower rpms than before.
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Old 09-14-2009, 03:27 PM   #1007
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Rajaie,

Thanks for the feedback. The noise doesn't sound like rattle, just engine sounds a lot louder. I will however listen for source of the noise with someone revving the car.
I've done over 500 miles on the car since vanos seals change.

Also, my primary reason why I changed seals was hopes of getting back low end torque. I had no idle issues before, even in cold weather (talking even down to -40C). I noticed no increase of low end torque, even after seals have been changed. I have no CELs either nor I had one.

What kind of sensors could cause lack of low end torque? I am thinking it might be a sensor that's still working, but not as good as it should. Let me know if this makes sense. If not, maybe you have something that I could check.

As for the sig, I just removed the GIF
Thanks for changing the sig. I really appreciate that!

You can check and see if one of your CPS sensors is an aftermarket part. Aftermarket CPS sensors cause problems. Use a flashlight and mirror and look for a BMW logo.

If you have a performance related problem you won't receive the benefits of the new vanos seals. Once you resolve the problem you'll receive the benefits of the new seals.

It sounds like you might have a major vacuum leak. This is often the crankcase vent valve and 4 associate hoses. They last 70-120k miles. They usually fail 80-90k miles. Here is a diagnosis for the valve.
While the engine is at warm idle, place a freezer storage bag on its side over the oil fill hole. If the bag sits on top and is only slightly sucked in the valve is good. If the bag gets sucked into the hole this indicates a failed valve.
This would cause a noise. Listen for a sucking noise form under the intake manifold.
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Old 09-14-2009, 03:38 PM   #1008
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Rajaeie, as far as I know, this car has original OEM CPS sensors and I never had to change them and nothing was mentioned in service history done by previous owner.

Wouldn't vacuum leak cause major idle issues?

I will do that test and let you know how it went. Don't have the car with me til Thu

Thanks so much for your help
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so 2004 bmw's dont come with a diff?
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Old 09-20-2009, 02:35 PM   #1009
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Just did that test and the bag doesn't get sucked in...
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so 2004 bmw's dont come with a diff?
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Old 09-20-2009, 02:43 PM   #1010
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you can check for a vacuum leak by spraying carb cleaner or starting fuid in various ares - if the idle increases, you have a leak
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Old 09-20-2009, 02:59 PM   #1011
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I am gonna be doing smoke test, as I am having idle issue after supercharger install.
What happens is that once I start up the car, idle is perfect. Then after driving around and once I am coming to stop, with my clutch pressed in, the idle drops below 500 then bounces up and down and finally settles down. Sometimes my car stalls and on occasion I don't even experience idle issue (5%)
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so 2004 bmw's dont come with a diff?
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Old 09-20-2009, 03:07 PM   #1012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hrvat View Post
I am gonna be doing smoke test, as I am having idle issue after supercharger install.
What happens is that once I start up the car, idle is perfect. Then after driving around and once I am coming to stop, with my clutch pressed in, the idle drops below 500 then bounces up and down and finally settles down. Sometimes my car stalls and on occasion I don't even experience idle issue (5%)
How many miles on your car?

Have you replaced your crankcase vent valve and 4 associate hoses?

Try to isolate the location of the noise.

Here are some other things to try.

Remove and check the idle control valve air intake boot branch. This gets cracks in the outer elbow accordion valleys. Remove and clean the idle control valve while you're at it.

Remove and check the DISA valve. This is a black box 4" high 6" wide on the side of the intake manifold adjacent to the MAF sensor. On 01+ cars the flap can come off its axis. Rotate the flap and release it. It should rotate with resistance and spring back when released. It should have no play.
On 01+ cars the DISA has an orange gasket built in at the base. It deteriorates over time and shrinks causing a vacuum leak. Place a 6" piece of electrical tape over a smooth surface. Cut the tape half width. Warp one layer of half width tape over the DISA base gasket. This will thicken the gasket and create a tighter fit with the intake manifold.
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Old 09-20-2009, 07:49 PM   #1013
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sounds like the car isnt adapting well - check for vacuum leaks (you can use starter fluid - spray around and if revs increase you have a leak there)

or a MAF problem
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Old 09-20-2009, 08:01 PM   #1014
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Rajae, I haven't replaced CCV yet. My idle issue started after install of SuperCharger but engine being louder started after Vanos seals repair.

Stuart, I am just waiting for PA Soft Scanner to come in and I will reset adaptations and see how that goes
If it doesn't fix it, I'll do a smoke test. I did use brake cleaner and soapy water but didn't find any leaks.

Here's what happens:
1. Start up the car, idle is perfect. This is when car is cold or warm.
2. Go for a drive, and if car is cold, the idle issue starts few mins after.
3. If the car is warm, the idle issue is present almost every time I press the clutch in.
4. So once idle issue occurs, I shut off the car, start it up and idle is solid again
It stays like this til I start driving and press the clutch in and coast to stop
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so 2004 bmw's dont come with a diff?

Last edited by Hrvat; 09-20-2009 at 08:15 PM.
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Old 09-20-2009, 09:33 PM   #1015
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Originally Posted by Hrvat View Post
Rajae, I haven't replaced CCV yet. My idle issue started after install of SuperCharger but engine being louder started after Vanos seals repair.

Stuart, I am just waiting for PA Soft Scanner to come in and I will reset adaptations and see how that goes
If it doesn't fix it, I'll do a smoke test. I did use brake cleaner and soapy water but didn't find any leaks.

Here's what happens:
1. Start up the car, idle is perfect. This is when car is cold or warm.
2. Go for a drive, and if car is cold, the idle issue starts few mins after.
3. If the car is warm, the idle issue is present almost every time I press the clutch in.
4. So once idle issue occurs, I shut off the car, start it up and idle is solid again
It stays like this til I start driving and press the clutch in and coast to stop
How many miles on the car?

Check the CPS sensors for a BMW logo.
Have you replaced the DISA?
Have you replaced the idle control valve air intake boot?

With the engine off, carefully remove the vent hose from the valve cover front corner. Blow hard into the hose. Listen for oil to bubble in the oil pan. If you don't hear oil bubbling then you likely have a crankcase vent valve hose broken. The hose that goes from the bottom of the valve to the oil dipstick pipe breaks just below the valve. This causes a vacuum leak.
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Old 09-20-2009, 09:49 PM   #1016
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- CPS sensors are BMW OEM.
- Disa hasn't been replaced. Louder engine issue started after I did vanos seals
Idle issue started after SC was installed.
- idle control valve air intake boot has been replaced with a new one from SC kit. Verified using soapy water that no leaks are present there.

I will do the crankcase vent valve hose test tomorrow

Rajaie, one more time, thanks so much for your help
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so 2004 bmw's dont come with a diff?
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Old 09-20-2009, 10:16 PM   #1017
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hrvat View Post
- CPS sensors are BMW OEM.
- Disa hasn't been replaced. Louder engine issue started after I did vanos seals
Idle issue started after SC was installed.
- idle control valve air intake boot has been replaced with a new one from SC kit. Verified using soapy water that no leaks are present there.

I will do the crankcase vent valve hose test tomorrow

Rajaie, one more time, thanks so much for your help
Just one suggestion or rather question.....You do realize that under vac., you can't use "soapy water" to verify vac. leaks. The soapy water would be getting sucked in instead of blown out (at least until the SC kicks in).
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Old 09-21-2009, 06:37 PM   #1018
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I've replaced my VANOS seals with the Beisan about 6 months ago and have had a persistant SES light since I did the work. What I have done in addition to the VANOS is as follows:


Valve cover gasket
All coils and spark plugs
Intake/Exhaust cam positioning sensors
Engine flush with Redline oil change
cleaned and inspected the idle control valve

My symptoms are as follows:

*SES light on:
VANOS, faulty exhaust reference value
misfire #5
misfire #3
misfire #6
(I'm guessing the faulty exhaust value message is causing the misfires since I've replaced all the coils recently. Anyone have any ideas? Did I screw something up when I replaced the VANOS seals?)

*Rough Idle (not bouncy or erratic, the engine vibrates the whole car....not smooth)
*The engine chokes when letting out the clutch at low RPMs (500 - 1500) from a stop
*General lack of mid range power (2500 - 3500 RPM) but good acceleration at higher RPMs
*When turning off the car, the engine makes a sort of cluck when it completely stops

The car is a manual 2000 323i with 101,000 miles.

Thanks!!
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Old 09-21-2009, 06:45 PM   #1019
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i have a rather uneducated guess.

Is there a chance you mismatched the coils to their power supply wiring?

I dont know much about the VANOS .. but possibly there is an electrical connector for a sensor (exhaust reference) that you forgot to reattach?

I say these because I hope its something simple for ya! (And I dont know much more..)
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Old 09-21-2009, 08:36 PM   #1020
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I actually brought the car to an indy BMW mechanic to see if he could figure it out. He decided to replace the coils to rule out any faulty ones which obviosusly didn't fix the problem. I trust he plugged everything in correctly. He mentioned after he replaced the coils that I may have reasembled the VANOS incorrectly somehow. Does anyone know what exactly "VANOS, faulty exhaust reference value" refer to? Does it simply mean there's somehting unplugged?
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