Vanos seals solution

Originally Posted by Rajaie

Although you are not aware of it, your vanos seals are fully failed.
Replacing them should provide significant performance improvements.

Rajaie,

I'm close to 140k on my '99 323i and have been reading this thread. I'm not putting out any codes associated with Vanos so how would I know my seals are fully failed? After reading this thread I'm about to buy your kit and have this done as a preventive maintenance measure. Any inputs/comments would be appreciated.

So far my car has linear acceleration and there's no stalling or knocking. Car runs very smooth. Maybe I'm lucky???

Thanks and great job putting this out !

/Charlie

Originally Posted by Rajaie

Although you are not aware of it, your vanos seals are fully failed.
Replacing them should provide significant performance improvements.

I'm glad you're still around, I was weary about purchasing these.

My car has 99,999KM (hehe), (62,000MILES ISH).

Around 2500-3000 RPM, my car "bounces". It literally feels like my car is bouncing. Imagine parked on a bridge, and you can feel it moving up and down.

Additionally, sometimes my car flutters around the 500-750 idle. It will try and stall, hiccup, regain itself, and then be smooth.

Originally Posted by cak323i

Rajaie,

I'm close to 140k on my '99 323i and have been reading this thread. I'm not putting out any codes associated with Vanos so how would I know my seals are fully failed? After reading this thread I'm about to buy your kit and have this done as a preventive maintenance measure. Any inputs/comments would be appreciated. Thanks and great job putting this out !

/Charlie

If you have the 99-00 M52TU cold weather cold start idle jolts and possible stall you can disconnect the vanos intake solenoid electrical connector. If the jolts cease it's the vanos seals.

The seals are failed on all the cars. They fully fail by 20k miles.
There have been many vanos seals replacements and none have reported the seals were in good condition.
The vanos seal O-ring are made of the same material as the valve cover gaskets, Buna. Everyone knows that by 100k miles the valve cover gaskets are totally plasticized. Now imagine a small sliver of that material inside the engine under 60 PSI oil pressure.

I’ve found the vanos seals can fail in their function in 6k miles. When I first solved this problem I purchased a new vanos. I took out the new pistons with the new seals and installed them in my old vanos. My cold weather cold start problems resolved. I then received significant performance improvements. I noticed at 6k miles the performance benefits were gone. I did drive the car hard and that hastened the seals failure. I removed the seals after 20k miles and the O-rings where totally plasticized.

Originally Posted by snowcatxx87

I'm glad you're still around, I was weary about purchasing these.

My car has 99,999KM (hehe), (62,000MILES ISH).

Around 2500-3000 RPM, my car "bounces". It literally feels like my car is bouncing. Imagine parked on a bridge, and you can feel it moving up and down.

Additionally, sometimes my car flutters around the 500-750 idle. It will try and stall, hiccup, regain itself, and then be smooth.

The hiccups are likely the vanos seals.
I'm not sure I understand the bouncing. The failed vanos seals will cause a bog under 3k RPM and a surge at 3k RPM. I guess this can cause the car to bounce.

Originally Posted by Rajaie

If you have the 99-00 M52TU cold weather cold start idle jolts and possible stall you can disconnect the vanos intake solenoid electrical connector. If the jolts cease it's the vanos seals.

The seals are failed on all the cars. They fully fail by 20k miles.
There have been many vanos seals replacements and none have reported the seals were in good condition.
The vanos seal O-ring are made of the same material as the valve cover gaskets, Buna. Everyone knows that by 100k miles the valve cover gaskets are totally plasticized. Now imagine a small sliver of that material inside the engine under 60 PSI oil pressure.

I’ve found the vanos seals can fail in their function in 6k miles. When I first solved this problem I purchased a new vanos. I took out the new pistons with the new seals and installed them in my old vanos. My cold weather cold start problems resolved. I then received significant performance improvements. I noticed at 6k miles the performance benefits were gone. I did drive the car hard and that hastened the seals failure. I removed the seals after 20k miles and the O-rings where totally plasticized.

Rajaie,

I will be sure to keep an eye on this during the upcoming winter season as my car will be outside during most of it this year. Thanks for the heads up. If I start experiencing problems then I will be sure to get your kit. I don't drive my 323i hard...I just cruise in it...! I use my ///M3 for the fun drives

Again, great job getting this information out to everyone on this forum!

Originally Posted by Rajaie

The hiccups are likely the vanos seals.
I'm not sure I understand the bouncing. The failed vanos seals will cause a bog under 3k RPM and a surge at 3k RPM. I guess this can cause the car to bounce.

I knew I was not explaining myself - Imagine someone just tapping, letting off, tapping, letting off, the gas pedal around those RPM ranges.

I will be purchasing asap. I need to figure out my paypal... Seems I have 2.

Just installed the seal kit in my 99 328i this weekend. Very straightforward and the pictorial instructions on the website made everything nice and clear to understand. Hardest part was finding appropriate pliers to pull out the exhaust side cap (radiator was in the way!)

I DO still have a check engine light on, so I'm going to have to figure that one out (don't have a code reader), but it runs great.

I had the cold idle surge issue for a couple of years, but for some reason it had stopped last winter (I'm at 172K mi now). Either way, I had been planning to do it when I did a cooling system overhaul. Having done it, there was really no advantage to doing it at the same time as the cooling system work.

Hoping for an improvement in low-end torque. Seems like the engine just doesn't pull like it should at low revs and is downright sluggish accelerating with the A/C on. Hard to tell, but I think it's a little better right now, though I've only put on about 50 miles.

AM.

Originally Posted by Attacking Mid

Just installed the seal kit in my 99 328i this weekend. Very straightforward and the pictorial instructions on the website made everything nice and clear to understand. Hardest part was finding appropriate pliers to pull out the exhaust side cap (radiator was in the way!)

I DO still have a check engine light on, so I'm going to have to figure that one out (don't have a code reader), but it runs great.

I had the cold idle surge issue for a couple of years, but for some reason it had stopped last winter (I'm at 172K mi now). Either way, I had been planning to do it when I did a cooling system overhaul. Having done it, there was really no advantage to doing it at the same time as the cooling system work.

Hoping for an improvement in low-end torque. Seems like the engine just doesn't pull like it should at low revs and is downright sluggish accelerating with the A/C on. Hard to tell, but I think it's a little better right now, though I've only put on about 50 miles.

AM.

Congrats on the repair.

Unfortunately if you have another performance related problem you won't receive the benefits of the new seals until you resolve the problem.
Read the codes and let us know. Maybe we can help.

After leaving the BMW family for a short eight months with a problematic Vol--, (which was incidentally damaged by a hit-and-run idiot,) I'm back, in a nice little 95 325i - and elated to be there! When I bought this gem, the guy told me that it had been diagnosed with a problem with the vanos. Is that why it seems to run a little rough and idle a bit high? Since I don't know much mechanically about these cars, how can I get this taken care of without a lot of expense? One of the sites I looked at said that it was rated "moderate" on the difficulty scale, but short of putting gas and oil in it and occasionally changing a flat, I don't know how to do much. Thanks in advance for your help!

Originally Posted by snowcatxx87

I knew I was not explaining myself - Imagine someone just tapping, letting off, tapping, letting off, the gas pedal around those RPM ranges.

I will be purchasing asap. I need to figure out my paypal... Seems I have 2.

That sounds like it could possibly be a fuel delivery problem. How old is the fuel filter? Have you tried a fuel system cleaner? Maybe an injector is dirty.

Originally Posted by jeffro3000

That sounds like it could possibly be a fuel delivery problem. How old is the fuel filter? Have you tried a fuel system cleaner? Maybe an injector is dirty.

I don't think it has been changed. I'm going to be changing it very soon (inspection 2, I'm actually 4000km over)

Which fuel system cleaner?

it only happens between 2500-3000. That's it.

Originally Posted by Rajaie

Maybe you didn't install the sparkplugs correctly. When you screw them in you will first get resistance. You should then continue to tighten them for ~1/3 turn till they fully tighten. If you didn't fully tighten they will come loose and cause your symptoms after maybe 50 miles.

Take out and clean the idle control valve.

You might have a clogged fuel filter.

Your pre-cat O2 sensors are due for replacement. They have a lifespan of 100k miles. They usually fail by over enriching the air/fuel mix so it wouldn't cause your symptoms. But you will get worsening gas mileage.

Disconnect the MAF electrical connector. If the problems completely resolve then it might be the MAF. Disconnecting the MAF will cause the DME to enrich the air/fuel mix and this will hide a vacuum leak. So you have to be careful with this test.

Were the CPS sensors new? Did you get them from a BMW dealership? Do they have a BMW logo on them?

I re-torqued the spark plugs after the symptoms began, so I could count that out. I cleaned the idle control valve when I replaced the CCV valve and hoses. The CPS sensors are approx. 5 months old and are definitely OEM BMW.

The O2 sensors are original I'm sure, but wouldn't it throw a code specific to those and not the VANOS? I may just replace them at least as preventative maintenance. The fuel filter is original as well. I'll replace that to rule it out as well as the MAF test you mention.

Is there any possibility I messed up something with the VANOS seals replacement? The mechanic I brought the car to wanted to replace the VANOS and/or check/adjust the cam timing even though I told him I just practically rebuilt the VANOS with upgraded seals. I didn't touch the sprockets, chains, etc. or anything behind the VANOS beyond re-attaching it.

Originally Posted by snowcatxx87

I don't think it has been changed. I'm going to be changing it very soon (inspection 2, I'm actually 4000km over)

Which fuel system cleaner?

it only happens between 2500-3000. That's it.

I used to buy ventil sauber from bavauto when i had an e30. it needed cleaning often.

Originally Posted by fde2024

After leaving the BMW family for a short eight months with a problematic Vol--, (which was incidentally damaged by a hit-and-run idiot,) I'm back, in a nice little 95 325i - and elated to be there! When I bought this gem, the guy told me that it had been diagnosed with a problem with the vanos. Is that why it seems to run a little rough and idle a bit high? Since I don't know much mechanically about these cars, how can I get this taken care of without a lot of expense? One of the sites I looked at said that it was rated "moderate" on the difficulty scale, but short of putting gas and oil in it and occasionally changing a flat, I don't know how to do much. Thanks in advance for your help!

You have an E36 with a single vanos. Here is the repair procedure for replacing the single vanos seals. It's a long procedure and needs special tools.
http://www.beisansystems.com/procedu..._procedure.htm

Originally Posted by devedean

I re-torqued the spark plugs after the symptoms began, so I could count that out. I cleaned the idle control valve when I replaced the CCV valve and hoses. The CPS sensors are approx. 5 months old and are definitely OEM BMW.

The O2 sensors are original I'm sure, but wouldn't it throw a code specific to those and not the VANOS? I may just replace them at least as preventative maintenance. The fuel filter is original as well. I'll replace that to rule it out as well as the MAF test you mention.

Is there any possibility I messed up something with the VANOS seals replacement? The mechanic I brought the car to wanted to replace the VANOS and/or check/adjust the cam timing even though I told him I just practically rebuilt the VANOS with upgraded seals. I didn't touch the sprockets, chains, etc. or anything behind the VANOS beyond re-attaching it.

I'm running out of ideas for you.

P1520 doesn't usually cause strong symptoms. So I thought whatever is causing the problems might also be causing the P1520 code.

Your timing might be wrong, but this doesn't go wrong on its own.

The MAF test and replacing the fuel filter are good things to try.

Thought I'd throw an update in here.

The replacement Vanos seals have been in for almost 20 months now and they are performing perfectly, the car acts just like it should. Much respect to Rajaie and what he's done to help out this community.

Originally Posted by Rajaie

Congrats on the repair.

Unfortunately if you have another performance related problem you won't receive the benefits of the new seals until you resolve the problem.
Read the codes and let us know. Maybe we can help.

Doh! I took a look at it again in the daylight, and I had neglected to reconnect the electrical plug near the exhaust side vanos piston. No more CEL. Runs very well. Thanks for your help!

AM.

Originally Posted by Attacking Mid

Doh! I took a look at it again in the daylight, and I had neglected to reconnect the electrical plug near the exhaust side vanos piston. No more CEL. Runs very well. Thanks for your help!

AM.

The vanos wasn't being used while the solenoid electrical was disconnected. Now that it's functioning the seals will start breaking in. You should receive progressive performance improvements for the next ~200 city miles.

Originally Posted by neil1138

Thought I'd throw an update in here.

The replacement Vanos seals have been in for almost 20 months now and they are performing perfectly, the car acts just like it should. Much respect to Rajaie and what he's done to help out this community.

Thanks!!

Hello,

I just completed the replacement vanos seals installation during the weekend. The only problem I had with the procedure was a stripped 8mm hex vanos cover bolt.

Other than that hiccup, the installation was straight forward and actually a lot of fun for someone that never worked on an engine. I've done most of the repairs on my 323i but this one was by far the longest (not necessarily the most difficult since Raj's DIY was extremely detailed).

I've only put about 25km on my car since the install so I haven't felt any performance gain yet...however, the engine definitely feels even smoother than before. I did have a slightly rough idle this morning (outdoor temperature was 3oC).

Next project for me....Seafoam or AutoRx and lots of oil changes to clear out some sludge.

Raj: Thanks again for your work...my 166,000km engine feels like new now.

MC