E46 BMW Social Directory E46 FAQ 3-Series Discussion Forums BMW Photo Gallery BMW 3-Series Technical Information E46 Fanatics - The Ultimate BMW Resource BMW Vendors General E46 Forum The Tire Rack's Tire Wheel Forum Forced Induction Forum The Off-Topic The E46 BMW Showroom For Sale, For Trade or Wanting to Buy

Welcome to the E46Fanatics forums. E46Fanatics is the premiere website for BMW 3 series owners around the world with interactive forums, a geographical enthusiast directory, photo galleries, and technical information for BMW enthusiasts.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

Go Back   E46Fanatics > E46 BMW > General E46 Forum

General E46 Forum
This is the place to get answers, opinions and everything you need related to your E46 (sedan, coupe, convertible and wagon) BMW!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rating: Thread Rating: 46 votes, 4.91 average.
Old 10-07-2009, 12:51 PM   #1061
cak323i
Modded ///Member
 
cak323i's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: RI
Posts: 3,283
My Ride: ///M3 & 330i ZHP
Thumbs Up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rajaie View Post
Although you are not aware of it, your vanos seals are fully failed.
Replacing them should provide significant performance improvements.
Rajaie,

I'm close to 140k on my '99 323i and have been reading this thread. I'm not putting out any codes associated with Vanos so how would I know my seals are fully failed? After reading this thread I'm about to buy your kit and have this done as a preventive maintenance measure. Any inputs/comments would be appreciated.

So far my car has linear acceleration and there's no stalling or knocking. Car runs very smooth. Maybe I'm lucky???

Thanks and great job putting this out !

/Charlie
__________________
2004 TiAg ///M l OEM CSL interior door panels l OEM CSL bootlid l Scorza CSL center console | Navigation | LCM s/w 4.5 triple blink | OEM black interior retrofit | BC Racing BR Coilovers l BMW Performance Carbon Fiber strut bar & Short Shift Kit l Gruppe M carbon kevlar CAI l BMW iPod Integration l Alu Tech interior Trim l Lit F10 ///M5 Shift Knob l Umnitza Orion V4 A/E's l Status Gruppe one piece cf CSL lip | BBS CH & ARC-8 wheel sets

Last edited by cak323i; 10-07-2009 at 01:06 PM.
cak323i is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2009, 12:54 PM   #1062
snowcatxx87
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Alberta
Posts: 2,458
My Ride: 04 330CI
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rajaie View Post
Although you are not aware of it, your vanos seals are fully failed.
Replacing them should provide significant performance improvements.
I'm glad you're still around, I was weary about purchasing these.

My car has 99,999KM (hehe), (62,000MILES ISH).

Around 2500-3000 RPM, my car "bounces". It literally feels like my car is bouncing. Imagine parked on a bridge, and you can feel it moving up and down.

Additionally, sometimes my car flutters around the 500-750 idle. It will try and stall, hiccup, regain itself, and then be smooth.

Last edited by snowcatxx87; 10-07-2009 at 01:05 PM. Reason: addition
snowcatxx87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2009, 01:06 PM   #1063
Rajaie
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 1,271
My Ride: 528i 06/00
Quote:
Originally Posted by cak323i View Post
Rajaie,

I'm close to 140k on my '99 323i and have been reading this thread. I'm not putting out any codes associated with Vanos so how would I know my seals are fully failed? After reading this thread I'm about to buy your kit and have this done as a preventive maintenance measure. Any inputs/comments would be appreciated. Thanks and great job putting this out !

/Charlie
If you have the 99-00 M52TU cold weather cold start idle jolts and possible stall you can disconnect the vanos intake solenoid electrical connector. If the jolts cease it's the vanos seals.

The seals are failed on all the cars. They fully fail by 20k miles.
There have been many vanos seals replacements and none have reported the seals were in good condition.
The vanos seal O-ring are made of the same material as the valve cover gaskets, Buna. Everyone knows that by 100k miles the valve cover gaskets are totally plasticized. Now imagine a small sliver of that material inside the engine under 60 PSI oil pressure.

Iíve found the vanos seals can fail in their function in 6k miles. When I first solved this problem I purchased a new vanos. I took out the new pistons with the new seals and installed them in my old vanos. My cold weather cold start problems resolved. I then received significant performance improvements. I noticed at 6k miles the performance benefits were gone. I did drive the car hard and that hastened the seals failure. I removed the seals after 20k miles and the O-rings where totally plasticized.
Rajaie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2009, 01:10 PM   #1064
Rajaie
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 1,271
My Ride: 528i 06/00
Quote:
Originally Posted by snowcatxx87 View Post
I'm glad you're still around, I was weary about purchasing these.

My car has 99,999KM (hehe), (62,000MILES ISH).

Around 2500-3000 RPM, my car "bounces". It literally feels like my car is bouncing. Imagine parked on a bridge, and you can feel it moving up and down.

Additionally, sometimes my car flutters around the 500-750 idle. It will try and stall, hiccup, regain itself, and then be smooth.
The hiccups are likely the vanos seals.
I'm not sure I understand the bouncing. The failed vanos seals will cause a bog under 3k RPM and a surge at 3k RPM. I guess this can cause the car to bounce.
Rajaie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2009, 01:13 PM   #1065
cak323i
Modded ///Member
 
cak323i's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: RI
Posts: 3,283
My Ride: ///M3 & 330i ZHP
Thumbs Up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rajaie View Post
If you have the 99-00 M52TU cold weather cold start idle jolts and possible stall you can disconnect the vanos intake solenoid electrical connector. If the jolts cease it's the vanos seals.

The seals are failed on all the cars. They fully fail by 20k miles.
There have been many vanos seals replacements and none have reported the seals were in good condition.
The vanos seal O-ring are made of the same material as the valve cover gaskets, Buna. Everyone knows that by 100k miles the valve cover gaskets are totally plasticized. Now imagine a small sliver of that material inside the engine under 60 PSI oil pressure.

Iíve found the vanos seals can fail in their function in 6k miles. When I first solved this problem I purchased a new vanos. I took out the new pistons with the new seals and installed them in my old vanos. My cold weather cold start problems resolved. I then received significant performance improvements. I noticed at 6k miles the performance benefits were gone. I did drive the car hard and that hastened the seals failure. I removed the seals after 20k miles and the O-rings where totally plasticized.

Rajaie,

I will be sure to keep an eye on this during the upcoming winter season as my car will be outside during most of it this year. Thanks for the heads up. If I start experiencing problems then I will be sure to get your kit. I don't drive my 323i hard...I just cruise in it...! I use my ///M3 for the fun drives

Again, great job getting this information out to everyone on this forum!
__________________
2004 TiAg ///M l OEM CSL interior door panels l OEM CSL bootlid l Scorza CSL center console | Navigation | LCM s/w 4.5 triple blink | OEM black interior retrofit | BC Racing BR Coilovers l BMW Performance Carbon Fiber strut bar & Short Shift Kit l Gruppe M carbon kevlar CAI l BMW iPod Integration l Alu Tech interior Trim l Lit F10 ///M5 Shift Knob l Umnitza Orion V4 A/E's l Status Gruppe one piece cf CSL lip | BBS CH & ARC-8 wheel sets
cak323i is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2009, 01:17 PM   #1066
snowcatxx87
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Alberta
Posts: 2,458
My Ride: 04 330CI
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rajaie View Post
The hiccups are likely the vanos seals.
I'm not sure I understand the bouncing. The failed vanos seals will cause a bog under 3k RPM and a surge at 3k RPM. I guess this can cause the car to bounce.
I knew I was not explaining myself - Imagine someone just tapping, letting off, tapping, letting off, the gas pedal around those RPM ranges.

I will be purchasing asap. I need to figure out my paypal... Seems I have 2.
snowcatxx87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2009, 01:36 PM   #1067
Attacking Mid
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Colorado
Posts: 37
My Ride: 99 328i Manual Black
Just installed the seal kit in my 99 328i this weekend. Very straightforward and the pictorial instructions on the website made everything nice and clear to understand. Hardest part was finding appropriate pliers to pull out the exhaust side cap (radiator was in the way!)

I DO still have a check engine light on, so I'm going to have to figure that one out (don't have a code reader), but it runs great.

I had the cold idle surge issue for a couple of years, but for some reason it had stopped last winter (I'm at 172K mi now). Either way, I had been planning to do it when I did a cooling system overhaul. Having done it, there was really no advantage to doing it at the same time as the cooling system work.

Hoping for an improvement in low-end torque. Seems like the engine just doesn't pull like it should at low revs and is downright sluggish accelerating with the A/C on. Hard to tell, but I think it's a little better right now, though I've only put on about 50 miles.

AM.
Attacking Mid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2009, 01:42 PM   #1068
Rajaie
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 1,271
My Ride: 528i 06/00
Quote:
Originally Posted by Attacking Mid View Post
Just installed the seal kit in my 99 328i this weekend. Very straightforward and the pictorial instructions on the website made everything nice and clear to understand. Hardest part was finding appropriate pliers to pull out the exhaust side cap (radiator was in the way!)

I DO still have a check engine light on, so I'm going to have to figure that one out (don't have a code reader), but it runs great.

I had the cold idle surge issue for a couple of years, but for some reason it had stopped last winter (I'm at 172K mi now). Either way, I had been planning to do it when I did a cooling system overhaul. Having done it, there was really no advantage to doing it at the same time as the cooling system work.

Hoping for an improvement in low-end torque. Seems like the engine just doesn't pull like it should at low revs and is downright sluggish accelerating with the A/C on. Hard to tell, but I think it's a little better right now, though I've only put on about 50 miles.

AM.
Congrats on the repair.

Unfortunately if you have another performance related problem you won't receive the benefits of the new seals until you resolve the problem.
Read the codes and let us know. Maybe we can help.
Rajaie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2009, 01:52 PM   #1069
fde2024
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: PA
Posts: 1
My Ride: 95 325i
After leaving the BMW family for a short eight months with a problematic Vol--, (which was incidentally damaged by a hit-and-run idiot,) I'm back, in a nice little 95 325i - and elated to be there! When I bought this gem, the guy told me that it had been diagnosed with a problem with the vanos. Is that why it seems to run a little rough and idle a bit high? Since I don't know much mechanically about these cars, how can I get this taken care of without a lot of expense? One of the sites I looked at said that it was rated "moderate" on the difficulty scale, but short of putting gas and oil in it and occasionally changing a flat, I don't know how to do much. Thanks in advance for your help!
fde2024 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2009, 01:58 PM   #1070
jeffro3000
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 2,812
My Ride: 2000 328i
Quote:
Originally Posted by snowcatxx87 View Post
I knew I was not explaining myself - Imagine someone just tapping, letting off, tapping, letting off, the gas pedal around those RPM ranges.

I will be purchasing asap. I need to figure out my paypal... Seems I have 2.
That sounds like it could possibly be a fuel delivery problem. How old is the fuel filter? Have you tried a fuel system cleaner? Maybe an injector is dirty.
jeffro3000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2009, 03:03 PM   #1071
snowcatxx87
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Alberta
Posts: 2,458
My Ride: 04 330CI
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffro3000 View Post
That sounds like it could possibly be a fuel delivery problem. How old is the fuel filter? Have you tried a fuel system cleaner? Maybe an injector is dirty.
I don't think it has been changed. I'm going to be changing it very soon (inspection 2, I'm actually 4000km over)

Which fuel system cleaner?

it only happens between 2500-3000. That's it.
snowcatxx87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2009, 07:30 PM   #1072
devedean
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: San Rafael, CA
Posts: 61
My Ride: 323i
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rajaie View Post
Maybe you didn't install the sparkplugs correctly. When you screw them in you will first get resistance. You should then continue to tighten them for ~1/3 turn till they fully tighten. If you didn't fully tighten they will come loose and cause your symptoms after maybe 50 miles.

Take out and clean the idle control valve.

You might have a clogged fuel filter.

Your pre-cat O2 sensors are due for replacement. They have a lifespan of 100k miles. They usually fail by over enriching the air/fuel mix so it wouldn't cause your symptoms. But you will get worsening gas mileage.

Disconnect the MAF electrical connector. If the problems completely resolve then it might be the MAF. Disconnecting the MAF will cause the DME to enrich the air/fuel mix and this will hide a vacuum leak. So you have to be careful with this test.

Were the CPS sensors new? Did you get them from a BMW dealership? Do they have a BMW logo on them?

I re-torqued the spark plugs after the symptoms began, so I could count that out. I cleaned the idle control valve when I replaced the CCV valve and hoses. The CPS sensors are approx. 5 months old and are definitely OEM BMW.

The O2 sensors are original I'm sure, but wouldn't it throw a code specific to those and not the VANOS? I may just replace them at least as preventative maintenance. The fuel filter is original as well. I'll replace that to rule it out as well as the MAF test you mention.

Is there any possibility I messed up something with the VANOS seals replacement? The mechanic I brought the car to wanted to replace the VANOS and/or check/adjust the cam timing even though I told him I just practically rebuilt the VANOS with upgraded seals. I didn't touch the sprockets, chains, etc. or anything behind the VANOS beyond re-attaching it.
devedean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2009, 07:33 PM   #1073
jeffro3000
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 2,812
My Ride: 2000 328i
Quote:
Originally Posted by snowcatxx87 View Post
I don't think it has been changed. I'm going to be changing it very soon (inspection 2, I'm actually 4000km over)

Which fuel system cleaner?

it only happens between 2500-3000. That's it.
I used to buy ventil sauber from bavauto when i had an e30. it needed cleaning often.
jeffro3000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2009, 08:18 PM   #1074
Rajaie
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 1,271
My Ride: 528i 06/00
Quote:
Originally Posted by fde2024 View Post
After leaving the BMW family for a short eight months with a problematic Vol--, (which was incidentally damaged by a hit-and-run idiot,) I'm back, in a nice little 95 325i - and elated to be there! When I bought this gem, the guy told me that it had been diagnosed with a problem with the vanos. Is that why it seems to run a little rough and idle a bit high? Since I don't know much mechanically about these cars, how can I get this taken care of without a lot of expense? One of the sites I looked at said that it was rated "moderate" on the difficulty scale, but short of putting gas and oil in it and occasionally changing a flat, I don't know how to do much. Thanks in advance for your help!
You have an E36 with a single vanos. Here is the repair procedure for replacing the single vanos seals. It's a long procedure and needs special tools.
http://www.beisansystems.com/procedu..._procedure.htm
Rajaie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2009, 08:31 PM   #1075
Rajaie
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 1,271
My Ride: 528i 06/00
Quote:
Originally Posted by devedean View Post
I re-torqued the spark plugs after the symptoms began, so I could count that out. I cleaned the idle control valve when I replaced the CCV valve and hoses. The CPS sensors are approx. 5 months old and are definitely OEM BMW.

The O2 sensors are original I'm sure, but wouldn't it throw a code specific to those and not the VANOS? I may just replace them at least as preventative maintenance. The fuel filter is original as well. I'll replace that to rule it out as well as the MAF test you mention.

Is there any possibility I messed up something with the VANOS seals replacement? The mechanic I brought the car to wanted to replace the VANOS and/or check/adjust the cam timing even though I told him I just practically rebuilt the VANOS with upgraded seals. I didn't touch the sprockets, chains, etc. or anything behind the VANOS beyond re-attaching it.
I'm running out of ideas for you.

P1520 doesn't usually cause strong symptoms. So I thought whatever is causing the problems might also be causing the P1520 code.

Your timing might be wrong, but this doesn't go wrong on its own.

The MAF test and replacing the fuel filter are good things to try.
Rajaie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2009, 08:33 PM   #1076
neil1138
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,240
Thought I'd throw an update in here.

The replacement Vanos seals have been in for almost 20 months now and they are performing perfectly, the car acts just like it should. Much respect to Rajaie and what he's done to help out this community.
neil1138 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2009, 09:50 PM   #1077
Attacking Mid
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Colorado
Posts: 37
My Ride: 99 328i Manual Black
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rajaie View Post
Congrats on the repair.

Unfortunately if you have another performance related problem you won't receive the benefits of the new seals until you resolve the problem.
Read the codes and let us know. Maybe we can help.
Doh! I took a look at it again in the daylight, and I had neglected to reconnect the electrical plug near the exhaust side vanos piston. No more CEL. Runs very well. Thanks for your help!

AM.
Attacking Mid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2009, 09:57 PM   #1078
Rajaie
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 1,271
My Ride: 528i 06/00
Quote:
Originally Posted by Attacking Mid View Post
Doh! I took a look at it again in the daylight, and I had neglected to reconnect the electrical plug near the exhaust side vanos piston. No more CEL. Runs very well. Thanks for your help!

AM.
The vanos wasn't being used while the solenoid electrical was disconnected. Now that it's functioning the seals will start breaking in. You should receive progressive performance improvements for the next ~200 city miles.
Rajaie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2009, 09:58 PM   #1079
Rajaie
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 1,271
My Ride: 528i 06/00
Quote:
Originally Posted by neil1138 View Post
Thought I'd throw an update in here.

The replacement Vanos seals have been in for almost 20 months now and they are performing perfectly, the car acts just like it should. Much respect to Rajaie and what he's done to help out this community.
Thanks!!
Rajaie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2009, 08:27 AM   #1080
BMW2k323i
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Montreal
Posts: 79
My Ride: 2000 323i
Hello,

I just completed the replacement vanos seals installation during the weekend. The only problem I had with the procedure was a stripped 8mm hex vanos cover bolt.

Other than that hiccup, the installation was straight forward and actually a lot of fun for someone that never worked on an engine. I've done most of the repairs on my 323i but this one was by far the longest (not necessarily the most difficult since Raj's DIY was extremely detailed).

I've only put about 25km on my car since the install so I haven't felt any performance gain yet...however, the engine definitely feels even smoother than before. I did have a slightly rough idle this morning (outdoor temperature was 3oC).

Next project for me....Seafoam or AutoRx and lots of oil changes to clear out some sludge.

Raj: Thanks again for your work...my 166,000km engine feels like new now.

MC
BMW2k323i is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
vanos

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Censor is ON





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:47 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
(c) 1999 - 2011 performanceIX Inc - privacy policy - terms of use