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Old 09-29-2010, 11:21 PM   #1481
bobby digital
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Hi Rajaie,

i would like your view on my situation, i have a 2005 3301 (e46), the only code i get sometimes are p0171 and p0174 (both lean mixture codes), i re-set them and the stay off for a while but seem to come on especially when i fill up the tank, i have no codes of the kind you list as vanos related codes, i have never driven another 330 so i am not sure of the power that i am getting from mine, i believe though that it should be more.
Do you think i need to change the seals even though i do not get any vanos related codes?

67000 miles

Last edited by bobby digital; 09-29-2010 at 11:27 PM.
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Old 09-29-2010, 11:31 PM   #1482
Rajaie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobby digital View Post
Hi Rajaie,

i would like your view on my situation, i have a 2005 3301 (e46), the only code i get sometimes are p0171 and p0174 (both lean mixture codes), i re-set them and the stay off for a while but seem to come on especially when i fill up the tank, i have no codes of the kind you list as vanos related codes, i have never driven another 330 so i am not sure of the power that i am getting from mine, i believe though that it should be more.
Do you think i need to change the seals even though i do not get any vanos related codes?
Your vanos seals are failed like everyone else, and replacing them should provide significant performance improvements.
But the codes indicate you have another performance problem and without fixing this you will not get the benefits of the new vanos seals. Also when you fix the problem you will get nice performance improvements.
So the first step is to solve the current problem.

Your problem is likely a vacuum leak, DISA valve, or MAF.
Here is some info on these issues.

The idle control valve air intake boot branch gets cracks in the outer elbow accordion valleys. This can be inspected with a flashlight and mirror.

The crankcase vent valve and 4 associate hoses fail and cause a vacuum leak. The valve gets stuck open and the hoses crack. These last 70-120k miles and usually fail 80-90k miles. Here are a couple diagnoses.
At warm idle, place a small plastic freezer storage bag on its side over the oil fill hole. If the bag sits on top or gets slightly sucked in, ~1Ē, the valve is good. If the bag gets significantly sucked in the hole the valve is stuck open and bad.
With the engine off and cold, carefully remove the hose at the valve cover front corner. Blow hard into the hose. You should hear oil bubbling in the oil pan. If you donít hear the bubbling the top or bottom hose is likely cracked. The bottom hose often breaks just below the valve connection. There can also be cracks in the other two hoses.

The DISA valve is problematic on 01+ cars.
The DISA is a black box 4" high 6" wide on the side of the intake manifold adjacent to the MAF. Remove it. The flap should rotate with resistance and spring back when released. It shouldn't have any play. It breaks at its base axis. If itís broken, the flap end axis pin can be removed and the flap will fall off.
The 01+ DISA has a base gasket built into the DISA. It shrinks over time and creates a small vacuum leak. Place an 8" piece of electrical tape on a table top. Cut the tape half width with a razor knife. Place one layer of half width electrical tape over the base gasket. This will thicken the gasket and create a tight seal with the intake manifold.

The MAF sensor can be dirty and not perform well or can be failing. After market oiled air filters foul the MAF.
Take out the MAF and clean it with CRC MAF spray cleaner. Spray the MAF lightly. There are delicate wires that can be damaged. Let the MAF fully dry before reconnecting.
Cold air intake setups can drive the MAF beyond its intended operating limits and cause it to fail.
The MAF can be tested by disconnecting its electrical cable connector. If the performance problem resolves it might be the MAF. But this test can be deceiving and should be used with great care. When the MAF is disconnected the DME will err on enriching the air/fuel mix. This can easily cover up another performance problem like a vacuum leak. If the problem is unchanged after disconnecting the MAF the problem is not the MAF.
Aftermarket MAF sensors donít work.
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Old 09-30-2010, 12:00 AM   #1483
bobby digital
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Thanks Rajaie for all that info, i will go ahead and do the checks and think i will also just change the seals, thanks again.
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Old 10-09-2010, 03:51 AM   #1484
zaharias
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Rajaie thanks for all this useful info!!

I have a cold start issue that seems to go away when the engine gets to normal operating temperature..
I have 2 lean codes P0171/174 and although i ve changed a lot of parts (new siemens maf, new bosch coils, new intake boots, new icv, new NGK spark plugs, new bosch 02 sensors, new ccv with all the hoses, new fuel filter, fuel pump checked is working fine, cleaned the injectros, new K&N air filter, oil changed & new oil filter, cleaned TB, new purge valve, new sucking jet pump) it's still there and i can't find the vacum leak.. I also want to do the vanos seals sometime in the winter maybe..
My car was a 318ci and i recently completed the M54B30 conversion..
I didn't mind buying all these parts, it's a preventative maintenace for me cause the engine had 77 km.. So iam happy that i changed all these cause are things that need to be changed in a few km and of course i don't know how the previous owner was maintaning the engine..
Could this be the vanos seals..??
Could this be any leak from intake manifold underneath or its gasket?
Should i do the maf disconect and the vanos disconect test?
(i mention maf cause i bought it from ebay although it's a siemens one made in Germany, i did n't buy it from the stealership)
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Old 10-09-2010, 05:27 AM   #1485
Rajaie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zaharias View Post
Rajaie thanks for all this useful info!!

I have a cold start issue that seems to go away when the engine gets to normal operating temperature..
I have 2 lean codes P0171/174 and although i ve changed a lot of parts (new siemens maf, new bosch coils, new intake boots, new icv, new NGK spark plugs, new bosch 02 sensors, new ccv with all the hoses, new fuel filter, fuel pump checked is working fine, cleaned the injectros, new K&N air filter, oil changed & new oil filter, cleaned TB, new purge valve, new sucking jet pump) it's still there and i can't find the vacum leak.. I also want to do the vanos seals sometime in the winter maybe..
My car was a 318ci and i recently completed the M54B30 conversion..
I didn't mind buying all these parts, it's a preventative maintenace for me cause the engine had 77 km.. So iam happy that i changed all these cause are things that need to be changed in a few km and of course i don't know how the previous owner was maintaning the engine..
Could this be the vanos seals..??
Could this be any leak from intake manifold underneath or its gasket?
Should i do the maf disconect and the vanos disconect test?
(i mention maf cause i bought it from ebay although it's a siemens one made in Germany, i did n't buy it from the stealership)
Lean codes are usually caused by a vacuum leak and possibly a failed MAF sensor. Failed vanos seals will not usually cause lean codes.
K&N air filters are oiled and this can foul the MAF and possibly cause it to fail. I suggest using the OEM Mann filter.
Siemens is the OEM MAF manufacturer. Be sure you purchased a new unit and it's the correct one for your car/engine.
The DISA valve is problematic on the M54B30. Take it out and check the flap. It shouldn't have play. A tiny bit of play is ok.
Wrap the DISA base gasket with one layer of half width electrical tape. This thickens the gasket and resolves a vacuum leak.
You might have a mechanic perform a smoke test.
You can try the MAF disconnect, but this is tricky. Disconnecting the MAF will cause the DME to enrich the air/fuel mix and this can resolve a lean condition.
Disconnecting the vanos will place the timing in a conservative position and this can also resolve the lean codes.
Aftermarket crankcase vent valves are no good. They can fail quickly.
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Old 10-09-2010, 07:16 AM   #1486
zaharias
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Thank you very much for the tips & help..
The ccv is oem..
I will try to seal the DISA,it looks & works ok but I will check the gasket..
The strange thing is that I have this issue when it's cold and when the engine reaches normal temperature everything is ok!!!
I will try spraying brake cleaner all the under side of the intake manifold.
Thanks again!
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Old 10-09-2010, 08:59 AM   #1487
dmax
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zah,

Beyond what Raj said (was thinking air filter s/b oe also), check the SAP system.

Cribs: feel big hose...remove inspect for holes...gunk in valve it's going to...and hose back from valve around. Replace as necessary.

There's another something on back end of the vac hose...not positive, but think it's a SA flow meter/valve,not sure what it does or why, but since you're saying it's only when cold, SAP only comes on when cold...turns off in maybe a minute and a half or so.

HTH

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Old 10-09-2010, 04:48 PM   #1488
zaharias
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmax View Post
zah,

Beyond what Raj said (was thinking air filter s/b oe also), check the SAP system.

Cribs: feel big hose...remove inspect for holes...gunk in valve it's going to...and hose back from valve around. Replace as necessary.

There's another something on back end of the vac hose...not positive, but think it's a SA flow meter/valve,not sure what it does or why, but since you're saying it's only when cold, SAP only comes on when cold...turns off in maybe a minute and a half or so.

HTH

Doug
Doug, thanks for posting for my issue.. (ive read alot of your posts )
My engine does n't have a SAP system.. (my previous engine N42B20 had, the M54B30 now does n't, so the plug is unplugged, i don't know if this is the problem)...
I also checked emissions and they were very good..
About the air filter.. I will buy an oem one..
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Last edited by zaharias; 10-09-2010 at 05:13 PM.
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Old 10-09-2010, 05:59 PM   #1489
i_ween
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Got the Beisan seals and other gaskets I need. Now, I just need the guts to do it.

EDIT: I'm going in now... 9:30am. (1/2 hour set up done)

EDIT II: 12:00 lunch. Valve cover off. VANOS coming off next. + I changed the pre-cat O2 sensors.

EDIT III: Emergency! I just realized that my valve cover gasket kit didn't come with the valve cover sparkplug well gaskets! effing crap!

EDIT IV: 6:00 I broke a shaft mounting bolt putting the VANOS back in place. No worries, because the valve cover gasket kit is *entirely* the wrong one. This being the first time I have ever done anything like this, I just assumed the company I bought them from sent the right ones. Oh well. Tomorrow I can hopefully get a kit from the local BMW dealer. If not, I will have the company I bought the original kit from overnight me the correct one. I checked the receipt, I ordered the right one.

EDIT THE LAST: Finished! Car runs great. Not sure if I notice any difference, but it feels nice and snug, pulls well. Thanks, Raj for your help with the DIY and the Torque spec. Total time actually working: 5-6 hrs, including swapping out the pre-cat O2 sensors.
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Last edited by i_ween; 10-10-2010 at 06:03 PM.
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Old 10-09-2010, 06:19 PM   #1490
crrdVR6
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It's not too bad. I just finished the job about 10 minutes ago. I had to change the idler pully, new plugs and oil sensor. The only problem I had was to retrieve the valve cover bolt I dropped down in the engine and run to lowes to get a hobby knife. I have not started the car yet. It's getting dark quickly and I didn't intall the air box, cabin filter housing and fan yet. Will complete it tomorrow and see how everything works out.

Last edited by crrdVR6; 10-13-2010 at 03:07 PM.
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Old 10-10-2010, 03:31 AM   #1491
2004bmw330ci
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rajaie View Post
Your vanos seals are failed like everyone else, and replacing them should provide significant performance improvements.
But the codes indicate you have another performance problem and without fixing this you will not get the benefits of the new vanos seals. Also when you fix the problem you will get nice performance improvements.
So the first step is to solve the current problem.

Your problem is likely a vacuum leak, DISA valve, or MAF.
Here is some info on these issues.

The idle control valve air intake boot branch gets cracks in the outer elbow accordion valleys. This can be inspected with a flashlight and mirror.

The crankcase vent valve and 4 associate hoses fail and cause a vacuum leak. The valve gets stuck open and the hoses crack. These last 70-120k miles and usually fail 80-90k miles. Here are a couple diagnoses.
At warm idle, place a small plastic freezer storage bag on its side over the oil fill hole. If the bag sits on top or gets slightly sucked in, ~1Ē, the valve is good. If the bag gets significantly sucked in the hole the valve is stuck open and bad.
With the engine off and cold, carefully remove the hose at the valve cover front corner. Blow hard into the hose. You should hear oil bubbling in the oil pan. If you donít hear the bubbling the top or bottom hose is likely cracked. The bottom hose often breaks just below the valve connection. There can also be cracks in the other two hoses.

The DISA valve is problematic on 01+ cars.
The DISA is a black box 4" high 6" wide on the side of the intake manifold adjacent to the MAF. Remove it. The flap should rotate with resistance and spring back when released. It shouldn't have any play. It breaks at its base axis. If itís broken, the flap end axis pin can be removed and the flap will fall off.
The 01+ DISA has a base gasket built into the DISA. It shrinks over time and creates a small vacuum leak. Place an 8" piece of electrical tape on a table top. Cut the tape half width with a razor knife. Place one layer of half width electrical tape over the base gasket. This will thicken the gasket and create a tight seal with the intake manifold.

The MAF sensor can be dirty and not perform well or can be failing. After market oiled air filters foul the MAF.
Take out the MAF and clean it with CRC MAF spray cleaner. Spray the MAF lightly. There are delicate wires that can be damaged. Let the MAF fully dry before reconnecting.
Cold air intake setups can drive the MAF beyond its intended operating limits and cause it to fail.
The MAF can be tested by disconnecting its electrical cable connector. If the performance problem resolves it might be the MAF. But this test can be deceiving and should be used with great care. When the MAF is disconnected the DME will err on enriching the air/fuel mix. This can easily cover up another performance problem like a vacuum leak. If the problem is unchanged after disconnecting the MAF the problem is not the MAF.
Aftermarket MAF sensors donít work.



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Old 10-12-2010, 10:42 AM   #1492
i_ween
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Torque specs question: I already broke one vanos piston bolt. The torque wrench I'm using doesn't want to "click" on these new bolts. I am afraid to break them, as I don't have replacements. Any advice out there? It seems to me they are tight enough.
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Old 10-12-2010, 01:12 PM   #1493
Rajaie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by i_ween View Post
Torque specs question: I already broke one vanos piston bolt. The torque wrench I'm using doesn't want to "click" on these new bolts. I am afraid to break them, as I don't have replacements. Any advice out there? It seems to me they are tight enough.
Your torque wrench likely doesn't work well at the low torque values. This is common. 8Nm is very little. All you need to do is snug the bolts. They are left hand thread and won't come loose.

Good luck with the rest of the repair.
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Old 10-12-2010, 03:54 PM   #1494
i_ween
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rajaie View Post
Your torque wrench likely doesn't work well at the low torque values. This is common. 8Nm is very little. All you need to do is snug the bolts. They are left hand thread and won't come loose.

Good luck with the rest of the repair.
Thanks, Raj. Everything went well, aside from the parts fiasco. :-)
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Old 10-12-2010, 06:26 PM   #1495
N89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rajaie View Post
Your torque wrench likely doesn't work well at the low torque values. This is common. 8Nm is very little. All you need to do is snug the bolts. They are left hand thread and won't come loose.

Good luck with the rest of the repair.
By left hand thread do you mean you tighten them by turning left and loosen by turning right? I'm going to be doing this soon, I already got the seals from you

Also, I have a 2001 330Ci Stick shift... I don't need any special tools right? I'm pretty sure I have an electric fan cause it was just a torx screw holding it on along with a rivet on the other side, and one electrical plug in.

Last edited by N89; 10-12-2010 at 07:24 PM.
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Old 10-12-2010, 10:10 PM   #1496
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It takes a few hundred miles for the vanos to "break" in and your computer to adjust as I've heard.
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Old 10-12-2010, 11:59 PM   #1497
Rajaie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N89 View Post
By left hand thread do you mean you tighten them by turning left and loosen by turning right? I'm going to be doing this soon, I already got the seals from you

Also, I have a 2001 330Ci Stick shift... I don't need any special tools right? I'm pretty sure I have an electric fan cause it was just a torx screw holding it on along with a rivet on the other side, and one electrical plug in.
You are correct about the turning orientation of left hand thread.

Yes, for a mechanical fan you don't need a water pump holding tool and 32mm wrench.
Be sure to get a razor knife with a small head and small/short needle nose pliers.

Good luck on the repair.
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Old 10-19-2010, 09:15 PM   #1498
one thumb juan
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Thinking of ordering a set.

Would you take a look at this video i took of my cold idle please?



I'm 90% sure this is exactly what you are describing but my OCD forced me to ask before ordering.

Thanks in advance.
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Old 10-19-2010, 09:25 PM   #1499
OrientBlau
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Originally Posted by one thumb juan View Post
Would you take a look at this video i took of my cold idle please?



I'm 90% sure this is exactly what you are describing but my OCD forced me to ask before ordering.

Thanks in advance.

Did you go to FHHS, yrs ago?
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Old 10-19-2010, 09:34 PM   #1500
one thumb juan
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@Orient - Nope.
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