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General BMW Model Discussion
All non E46 BMW model questions in here. Look below for E36, E90 and F30 specific forum. For additional model specific forums check out bimmerfest.com!

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Old 02-02-2008, 01:35 AM   #21
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I'm guessing it will be priced right around 85-90k
yeahhh oookaaay, and piss off all the m5/m6 owners.
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Old 02-02-2008, 02:01 AM   #22
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Old 02-02-2008, 03:40 AM   #23
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i absolutely hope the car remains NA. I think a turbo takes away the essence.
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Old 02-04-2008, 09:52 AM   #24
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I've also heard rumors of a radical change in the engine department for the CSL. Rumors point to the brand new Twin-Turbo 4.4L V8 in the X6 50i concept. They are going to for sure put this engine in the 5 and 6 series next year...but that'd make one crazy CSL.

If they follow the tradition of the E46 CSL...itll probably just be a tuned version of the current 4.0L NA V8 and a BIG diet. But its fun to imagine...
No FI in an M car, plus the N63 doesn't rev like the S65, so it doesn't have a chance.
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Old 02-04-2008, 10:06 AM   #25
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theres no way that the CSL will receive the turbo V8... several sources in Germany have confirmed that the Motorport Division cars will continue their high rev / naturally aspirated engine philosophy on future models...

the CSL test mules will also not be heavily camouflaged... everyone knows what the M3 looks like already... the test mules re going to look like regular
M3's with a couple of camouflaged CSL parts on it...

i also doubt that we will see any crazy horsepower increases with the CSL... BMW will more than likely follow the same path that they did with the E46CSL, which means that it will become a slightly more powerful, less heavy, and more track oriented M3... a car that wont boast with its looks and power figures, but with its handling prowess and exclusivity...
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Old 02-04-2008, 12:47 PM   #26
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IF the US gets it, and that's a big if, I bet it won't be as hardcore track oriented as the euro version. I seriously doubt Americans would buy a car that's ~$90k that doesn't have A/C and a radio. We'll probably see more CF and a little weight saved.
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Old 02-04-2008, 06:14 PM   #27
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IF the US gets it, and that's a big if, I bet it won't be as hardcore track oriented as the euro version. I seriously doubt Americans would buy a car that's ~$90k that doesn't have A/C and a radio. We'll probably see more CF and a little weight saved.
it would be a shame if BMW abandoned the CSL philosophy only because it doesnt fit into the american market...
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Old 02-04-2008, 06:26 PM   #28
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Sales are sales. Convertibles don't fit the M philosophy but they make them for better numbers.
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Old 02-04-2008, 07:33 PM   #29
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Sales are sales. Convertibles don't fit the M philosophy but they make them for better numbers.
I'm very much aware of the fact that sales ultimately dictate production...

I just wish the ///M division would take a step back and look at what they originally intended...
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Old 02-04-2008, 09:18 PM   #30
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E92 CSL had better live up to the E46 CSL. Love that car. Anywho, I do agree with some purists about leaving //M naturally aspirated. However, there's more and more turbo action going on with BMW nowadays. With the 335i being able to be damn close as fast 0-60 times (with software, exhaust, and bov) as the E92 M3, I think BMW is just waiting to unleash the turbo power they have recently been pioneering. I mean, the N54 engine is a de-tuned 300hp small turbo six cylinder. If //M does happen to apply that kind of power to their larger engines.

Game over...
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Old 02-04-2008, 09:25 PM   #31
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If you do some weight saving on the E92 M3, you will definately be able to lose bucketloads of pounds. No electric seats, no satnav, no iDrive/Radio... You are looking at at least 200-250lbs right there. Then add more punch to the engine: A proper airbox, sharper cams, maybe proper headers and a titanium exhaust (although that would exaggerate a bit) and you would be looking at around 450bhp.
I beg to differ. You're saying 100kg's is easy to shed? The e46 csl had it's AC stripped, among other such things such as the glass being thinner and a cardboard trunk floor. If they do build it, it will be severely stripped down, which in that case pushes it into the gt3 category.
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Old 02-04-2008, 09:34 PM   #32
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E92 CSL had better live up to the E46 CSL. Love that car. Anywho, I do agree with some purists about leaving //M naturally aspirated. However, there's more and more turbo action going on with BMW nowadays. With the 335i being able to be damn close as fast 0-60 times (with software, exhaust, and bov) as the E92 M3, I think BMW is just waiting to unleash the turbo power they have recently been pioneering. I mean, the N54 engine is a de-tuned 300hp small turbo six cylinder. If //M does happen to apply that kind of power to their larger engines.

Game over...
you obviously dont understand what the M divison is all about. ///M doesnt buy into the horsepower wars... why? because ultimately HP numbers by themselves dont mean ****... it all about the package as a whole...

///M should represent the perfect combination in weight / power ratios, it shouldnt reperesent the car with the highest H numbers...
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Old 02-04-2008, 09:37 PM   #33
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you obviously dont understand what the M divison is all about. ///M doesnt buy into the horsepower wars... why? because ultimately HP numbers by themselves dont mean ****... it all about the package as a whole...

///M should represent the perfect combination in weight / power ratios, it shouldnt reperesent the car with the highest H numbers...
big to that. C63 has a lot more power, but every review I've seen puts the M3 over the C63. Plus, weight saving is where the future is. You can add 1000 hp to a car, but that doesn't help the driving dynamics. A car with a better power/weight ratio is more fun to drive, period.
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Old 02-04-2008, 09:55 PM   #34
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you obviously dont understand what the M divison is all about. ///M doesnt buy into the horsepower wars... why? because ultimately HP numbers by themselves dont mean ****... it all about the package as a whole...

///M should represent the perfect combination in weight / power ratios, it shouldnt reperesent the car with the highest H numbers...
You need to stop allowing BMW's press releases to brainwash you. You're right HP numbers of themselves are just a piece of the performance puzzle. But, don't be naive, it's a very important part of the puzzle. If only AMG and M could unite, then we'd have the best of both worlds...
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Old 02-04-2008, 10:28 PM   #35
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I dont see a market for an American CSL as much as I love the car it will be looked at by non fanatics as a 90k 3series. Also at the 90k price point you are matched up against the R8, Carrera 4s, and the new ZR1 vette is suppose to be a 100k. Maybe a type of CSL trim package on the E92 would work.
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Old 02-05-2008, 07:15 AM   #36
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You need to stop allowing BMW's press releases to brainwash you. You're right HP numbers of themselves are just a piece of the performance puzzle. But, don't be naive, it's a very important part of the puzzle. If only AMG and M could unite, then we'd have the best of both worlds...
what the fukc do bmw press releases have to do with what I said? I grew up with ///M cars in the family, so what I'm saying isnt based on what I read, its based on experience. You are seriously waisting your breath! Why would you want AMG and ///M to unite??!! This shows how little you really know about cars. Both manufacturers follow completely different paths! Driving dynamics represent what ///M is all about. The cars are not made to solely perform in a straight line, only the combination of weight distribution, suspension, engine characteristics, and overall feel ultimately make an ///M car what it is... you dont need a crazy amount of horsepower to achieve what ///M tries to achieve... what you need is the right combination of several important factors. Do you honeslty think that the e92 M3 would profit from the C63 engine, or anything made by AMG for that matter? It wouldnt profit from them whatsoever because AMG follows a completely different approach to making performance cars.
IMO AMG tries to make up what it lacks in the dynamics department, by simply adding more horsepower. Sure, the cars are fast... but if you've ever driven an AMG you will also notice that the driving expericence it not nearly as involving and reassuring as it is with an ///M car.
I you want to run a quarter mile, an ///M should not be your first choice. If you are a true driving enthusiast however, you will appreciate all the little things that make an ///M car what it is. You will forget about the numbers on paper, and appreciate what the car can do when it is actually driven.

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Old 02-05-2008, 07:26 AM   #37
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Old 02-05-2008, 03:24 PM   #38
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what the fukc do bmw press releases have to do with what I said? I grew up with ///M cars in the family, so what I'm saying isnt based on what I read, its based on experience. You are seriously waisting your breath! Why would you want AMG and ///M to unite??!! This shows how little you really know about cars. Both manufacturers follow completely different paths! Driving dynamics represent what ///M is all about. The cars are not made to solely perform in a straight line, only the combination of weight distribution, suspension, engine characteristics, and overall feel ultimately make an ///M car what it is... you dont need a crazy amount of horsepower to achieve what ///M tries to achieve... what you need is the right combination of several important factors. Do you honeslty think that the e92 M3 would profit from the C63 engine, or anything made by AMG for that matter? It wouldnt profit from them whatsoever because AMG follows a completely different approach to making performance cars.
IMO AMG tries to make up what it lacks in the dynamics department, by simply adding more horsepower. Sure, the cars are fast... but if you've ever driven an AMG you will also notice that the driving expericence it not nearly as involving and reassuring as it is with an ///M car.
I you want to run a quarter mile, an ///M should not be your first choice. If you are a true driving enthusiast however, you will appreciate all the little things that make an ///M car what it is. You will forget about the numbers on paper, and appreciate what the car can do when it is actually driven.
blah blah blah blah blah...that was honestly painful to read. That was the most redundant, repetitive post...in fact, I didn't even read the whole thing. You are preaching to the choir brainiac. Do you ever get sick of saying the same thing over and over again? or just repeating what has been said a gazillion times before? lol, yeah, bmw's M division is all about driving dynamic, the overall performance machine, basically more racecar oriented, as apposed to AMG which is about making luxurious, comfortable rides, with a hand-built refined torque monster under the hood. I already said what you said, in two sentences, in my last post...so stop with your emotional rants which contain the most obvious material. Why would I want AMG and M to combine? Who the hell wouldn't want an M3 with the torque of an e63 AMG? lol, dude you are so brainwashed by the BMW propaganda if you would say no to that question, that's my point with "being brainwashed by bmw's press releases." I rest my case. PS. I own an AMG, and I thoroughly enjoy the torque. BTW, you act as if it's sac religious to wish for the best of both worlds, M and AMG, lol. Newsflash, BMW's M is not even close to being on the top of the performance car food chain. Ever heard of 997TT? GT2? Even Z06's blow the doors off of M's in almost every performance category, while still boasting an obscene amount of torque and HP. You act like M's sh1t don't stink, come on now...

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Old 02-05-2008, 03:35 PM   #39
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theres no way that the CSL will receive the turbo V8... several sources in Germany have confirmed that the Motorport Division cars will continue their high rev / naturally aspirated engine philosophy on future models...

the CSL test mules will also not be heavily camouflaged... everyone knows what the M3 looks like already... the test mules re going to look like regular
M3's with a couple of camouflaged CSL parts on it...

i also doubt that we will see any crazy horsepower increases with the CSL... BMW will more than likely follow the same path that they did with the E46CSL, which means that it will become a slightly more powerful, less heavy, and more track oriented M3... a car that wont boast with its looks and power figures, but with its handling prowess and exclusivity...
very nicely said.





and if AMG and ///M join forces then I would proceed to stab myself in the eye.

AMG was sick when they were a separate entity from Mercedes circa late 80's early 90's. None of that cushy bulky new crap they have been regurgitating lately.
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Old 02-05-2008, 03:38 PM   #40
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i think it would be kick ass if they did it but it sure would lower the perceived performance/value of the standard m3
did the old e46 csl do that? no.

did the csl look that much different from the old e46 m3? no.

don't expect anything insane as far as looks.

besides there are enough wannabe csl m3s on this board that keeps everyone busy with the look.
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