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General BMW Model Discussion
All non E46 BMW model questions in here. Look below for E36, E90 and F30 specific forum. For additional model specific forums check out bimmerfest.com!

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Old 02-06-2008, 11:34 AM   #81
rat3d m
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i like your sig guess your not racing ray anymore huh
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Old 02-06-2008, 11:43 AM   #82
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i like your sig guess your not racing ray anymore huh
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Old 02-06-2008, 01:37 PM   #83
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All those cars are more expensive and are worse in every day driving.

It's not that I am ignoring your statements, but you fail to see my point. I am well aware that there are better track cars. Much better. But I would like to see how those are in everyday life. Drop the kids off to school, quickly grab some groceries on your drive home etc.
If I'd have the cash, I'd buy my future wife a Lambo, since the trunk is so small
I have never stated that BMW is superior in terms of performance, track usage or practicability. But in combination, there are very few cars that do this better, and honestly, you haven't named me one. AMG is very practical (Mercedes, duh) and have lots of power. But it isn't as good for the track because of the high ride comfort, which overtones the sportiveness. If you're all about power and luxury, AMG would be the deal.
Porsches are GREAT for the track, very sportive, lots of power, but what about every day use? My uncle rather uses the 90hp Golf Mk3 for shopping than his Porsche. And not to save gas either, because he gets cigarettes with the "P-Car".

But what am I making the counter examples, shouldn't you be the one, since I am such a fanboy?
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Now that was a very respectable post...point taken. It seems I misunderstood your point of view, as I think you did the same with me. You're right, when it comes to a cars ability to do everyday things well...then absolutely, the M is right close to the top. But, with that argument, AWD is far more drivable and better for everyday use...therefore, RS4? jk, I'd take the M anyday before the rs4...but honestly, the porsche still has the M beat I think. 997tt to me, is the best all-around, drivers car, capable of doing everything, from driving in the snow to going to the track. I think most owners don't use them as DD because they spend a lot of money on it, and never meant for it to be the DD, when in reality, Porsche designed it to be the ultimate DD. Just my opinion.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, this is where I was going to try and get last night but was just too damned tired and needed some shut eye sorry

We can all agree that each car has itīs pros and cons.. An M is not an AMG is not an RS4/6 and definatley nowhere near a Porsche. M tries to effectively combine sportivity with practicability an allrounder if you want, BUT still on the sporty side of life.

An AMG is as far as MB goes a very luxurious car layed out for comfort in all situations, especially at high speeds.
Surely AMG does not have the agility and feedback as an M does due to its overweight and "sloggy" suspension. Due to the automatic transmission AMG also lacks the certain kick therefore compensated by thier overly brutal torque values which simulates that loss.

RS respectively Audi tries to combine both AMG and M whilst also using thier 4WD experience adding another interesting option to automotive sports experience.

An M has always been on the more sportier grid. They are perfectly trimmed down to the very essence of driving pleasure. You feel the very grain under your wheels when you drive an M. Itīs a simple matter of who is sitting behind the wheel and further more, can that person really drive ?

Porsche: Iīm not even going to start with Porsche.. a Porsche is a Porsche and therefore a category of itīs own ! Wanna compare Cayenne to X5 ? Be my guest, thatīs NOT my stuff

In all 3 cases which I believe we can agree on most people drive straight and fast. As we say over here in Germany : " Geradeaus schnell fahren kann jeder Depp !" Driving fast in a staight line is a fools pleasure, anyone can do that. The real/true driver knows his car and uses it accordingly. And as tests go over here the new M3 vs. C63 AMG vs. RS4 all test drivers were AMAZED as to how much power output the AMG had BUT they all agreed that the BMW M3 E92 had the better driving dynamics in an overALL resumé and truly had the ultimate driving pleasure. On one of the British shows they tested all 3 and came to the same conclusion. I personally have had the great pleasure and opportunity to drive almost all of these cars from different eras and can objectively say they all have thier cherries on top but being honest the NEW M3 is slightly too heavy and misses that certain something, itīs because itīs become far too luxurious inside and thatīs why there WILL be an M3 E92 CSL as of....(oh no guys, no secrets released from my side) !! So here you have it, in YO FACE !! Hope I was able to give an insight here.
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Old 02-06-2008, 01:41 PM   #84
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In all 3 cases which I believe we can agree on most people drive straight and fast. As we say over here in Germany : " Geradeaus schnell fahren kann jeder Depp !" Driving fast in a staight line is a fools pleasure, anyone can do that. The real/true driver knows his car and uses it accordingly. And as tests go over here the new M3 vs. C63 AMG vs. RS4 all test drivers were AMAZED as to how much power output the AMG had BUT they all agreed that the BMW M3 E92 had the better driving dynamics in an overALL resumé and truly had the ultimate driving pleasure. On one of the British shows they tested all 3 and came to the same conclusion. I personally have had the great pleasure and opportunity to drive almost all of these cars from different eras and can objectively say they all have thier cherries on top but being honest the NEW M3 is slightly too heavy and misses that certain something, itīs because itīs become far too luxurious inside and thatīs why there WILL be an M3 E92 CSL as of....(oh no guys, no secrets released from my side) !! So here you have it, in YO FACE !! Hope I was able to give an insight here.
What he said!


Get on MSN, will you!
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Old 02-06-2008, 01:44 PM   #85
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ok...obviously you still dont understand what I'm trying to tell you here....

I have driven the GT2/GT3, and yes they are incredible cars... but you are digging your own hole here... the GT3 follows the same basic principles as the CSL.

Cars like the GT3, and the CSL only work because they form a perfect combination of what is desireable in a driving enthusiasts car. Both are trying to combine the best of everything into a very capable platform. There are cars that handle better, there are cars that have more horsepower, and yes, there are cars that are more practicable... but normally you can only have two of the three. With a car like the CSL you get pretty damn close to having the best of everything. Its a very good overall package... so good infact, that you dont need any substantial changes. The CSL engine is not a torque monster... but it also was never intended to be one. An engine with lots of torque would throw this car off balance, and make it lose its defining characteristics. An ///M engine is expected to rev at high rpm's, it is expected to be used in high gear, and it is not the kind of engine that you would combine with an automatic transmission.
What I mentioned works well for BMW... what AMG does seems to be working well for AMG. Ultimately, you either like one or the other, but they dont work as a combination.

I hope you have enough sense to stop insulting people. What I said in my previous post did make sense... and you not taking the time to read it all just proves how ignorant and (excuse me) stupid you really are... if you had read (and understood) my previous post, I would'nt have needed to take the time to break this whole thing down even more...
Correct, this is what I also meant, but please ......

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If you insist on keeping up your BS.... be my guest... I always get my point across...
..... this is really unneccesary weīre here to discuss and not disgust
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Old 02-06-2008, 01:58 PM   #86
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What he said!
exactly what he wrote
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Old 02-06-2008, 02:22 PM   #87
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.



..... this is really unneccesary weīre here to discuss and not disgust
this would be true, had he not started insulting people right away...

Last edited by 330performance; 02-06-2008 at 02:24 PM.
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Old 02-06-2008, 02:49 PM   #88
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Gotta agree with Ray.. as far as ALL ROUND performance goes... the M series wins hands down

FYI - the UK TOP GEAR crew had a shootout with ALL the top latest and greatest cars on the Isle of Mann at the end of 2007. Whilst the new Audi R8 came out pretty much tops, the article ended by saying that it only beat the new M3 (which I think is uglier than hell but that's another conversation) by a hairs breadth and although the TOP GEAR team are not fans of the M series... they had to begrudgingly admit that it was BY FAR the most comfortable way of getting home once all the crazy driving was over.

It's that balance of fun and function which make it such an awesome car.

On the SL55, 65 debate... let me just say that although these cars have torque and power up the schiffer and although they will blitz you with a highway pull any day, because they are so radically overpowered, spirited driving and hard pulls result in a lot of spinning tires and are just not as much fun or controlled as in the M.

Opinions are like bad smells... every ******* has one
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Old 02-06-2008, 04:01 PM   #89
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just a side note...

the E46 CSL had a better track time than the 996 GT3 on both Nürburgring and Hockenheimring... the CSL should not be considered a compromise...
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Old 02-06-2008, 08:22 PM   #90
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whoever said m doesnt look at hp they do. look at the m5s m6s they are both 500 hp cars so what are u talking about now?but they will stay n/a for sure because thats what bmws all about. raw power
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Old 02-07-2008, 10:51 PM   #91
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^ you need some M mirrors car looks nice
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Old 02-08-2008, 04:38 AM   #92
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whoever said m doesnt look at hp they do. look at the m5s m6s they are both 500 hp cars so what are u talking about now?but they will stay n/a for sure because thats what bmws all about. raw power
I'd rather think they needed to stay competitive and also needed that power to actually move a two ton car like an M...
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Old 02-08-2008, 06:48 AM   #93
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lol - too true dude... Also I find the 308Kw thing SO wankerish... that is the EXACT same power output as the RS4... how pathetic is that.. it's like the new M3 is just an "Us Too" car

Shame BMW - you could have done so much better
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Old 02-08-2008, 10:30 AM   #94
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I have no clue why Veyrons were even brought up in this argument! The car is amazing, although four turbos in addition to the ginormous W16....woohoo. Youtube Veyron v Elise- And for the most part the Elise stays RIGHT with it on the track, by no means is the Veyron a track car. I agree with M Powered, the philosophy used in Germany is the same I go by- "Driving fast in a staight line is a fools pleasure, anyone can do that." As a matter of fact, about a week ago- a couple of M3s and I were cruising on GW parkway and we happened to come accross a CLK 63 with a pretty agressive fitment of HREs cruising as well. He would pull on his, not by THAT much but about a little less than a car ahead of me (chip? and exhaust)....but a curve started coming up- and to my amazement he actually tried to push through the turn. Its very very rare I find someone willing to actually drive instead of a straight line race. He started horribly fading through the turn...and the other three Ms and I took the inside line as he faded to the right line. I LOVE curves...thats just me, so I'll be biased till death.


///M, Porsche, B7 RS4, Evo, STi, just to name a few=


I saw that the RS6 was brought up in a previous argument and :tsk. One of my closest friends has an Avus silver/Carbon- Ebony leather, nice as all hell. Fast as ALL HELL. Although, I MUST tell you something. It is an easy to drive car, and does grip very well- but had it not been for Quattro....the car would be a complete disaster of a 450hp grocery getter. Going to the Hookah bar one night, we tried to take on a E39 M5. Long story short, the M5 had us...I believe 4 car lengths lost around a couple of S Curves? Andrews (my rs6 buddy) car has diverters and intake, but lets just say he had stock horsepower....hes 56hp advantage over the M5. Power is nothing witout control- Pirelli


Sorry for the long opinion!
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Old 02-11-2008, 07:12 PM   #95
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An M3 with an AMG engine would be terrible AMG needed 2.2 liters more than the M3 to get only 30HP more... And the RS5 needs TWO turbos to just beat the M3 by 30HP.
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Old 02-11-2008, 08:54 PM   #96
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The HP figures might be slightly higher, but look at the torque numbers. That's the reason for the displacement and turbos.

e92 M3 - 414hp 295lb ft
c63AMG - 451hp 443lb ft
RS5 - 450hp 500lb ft

The RS5 engine is the same 4.2 liter engine in the rs4/r8. We know that's already a peppy engine. I'm guessing tuners will have a field day with the turbos...

Kinda off topic but what's the purpose of the S now? Because it can't really compete with the M?
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Old 02-12-2008, 12:22 PM   #97
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The S5 is to compete with the 335i.
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Old 02-17-2008, 10:46 PM   #98
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The E92 CSL is gonna be insane
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Old 02-18-2008, 12:14 AM   #99
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hey, didnt bmw and amg work together on the mclaren f1? BMW built the engine?

i rather enjoyed reading this thread as not a single person here has owned or even driven the cars mentioned (specifically on a track)
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Old 02-18-2008, 01:18 AM   #100
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hey, didnt bmw and amg work together on the mclaren f1? BMW built the engine?

i rather enjoyed reading this thread as not a single person here has owned or even driven the cars mentioned (specifically on a track)
That was McLaren and BMW (M GmbH, to be precise). McLarean isn't AMG
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