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Old 04-27-2008, 12:46 PM   #1
Transporter99
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Post How to safely achieve 255hp N/A from the M52TUB28??

Okay, I know some are DYING to post "Supercharger...end thread." I'm not letting you off the hook that easy!

I'm thinking about ideas to achieve E90 330i levels of hp or straight line performance. Obviously, i could just get the damn car (which I hate, except the engine, lol) or the engine itself, but what's the fun in that?

I'm currently @ 198 flywheel. Now....I'm in a "green" state, of sorts. Meaning, unlike back home in Minnesota where you can practically run with fire and smoke billowing from exposed exhaust ports, etc...North Carolina is very strict and require all emissions regulators on vehicles. And yearly checks. So...this will need to be achieved without getting headers.

Existing:
Dinan SII software
Dinan CF CAI

Thoughts on what might help achieve 255+:
- Full Cat back (UUC perhaps)
- performance pulley
- Electric water pump to reduce engine load
- Differential (3.23 +)
- new plasma coils
- Cams (are there even any available for a 328i?)
- Intake manifold (VERY rare. Spotted a few Alpina Intake manifolds, but pricey and with unknown performance gains for JUST the manifold alone).
- New pistons? (had mine checked in Feb & all 6 were firing great, though)
- Port/polish (any real benefit?)


Again, this is just a brainstorm and not a plan in action. A supercharger might very well be the simplest plan of attack and less complex. Just the thought of an N/A engine being a little more raucous has always been intriguing.
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Old 04-27-2008, 12:51 PM   #2
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everything that you just listed costs more than a supercharger with probably less gains...........


i would say get a 3.46
exhaust

and see where that puts you

but going N/A all the way is gonna cost you a very pretty penny
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Old 04-27-2008, 12:52 PM   #3
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Damn seems like 255 is alot hell even the US spec E36 M3 didn't have that much hp from it's 3.2L engine. I think you'll come close but to 255 seems too much.
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Old 04-27-2008, 12:52 PM   #4
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If you're going to do N/A "power" modifications...headers, differential, and cams are the only thing worth doing. Everything else will give you little to no gain.
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Old 04-27-2008, 12:55 PM   #5
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what about the e36 intake manifolds? do they fit, both engines are m52's and if i'm not mistaken they are metal, so you can port them...

also what about a crank swap to 3.0, will that hurt your emissions?

as far as cams, i wonder how the schrick 264's would run in your car?
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Old 04-27-2008, 01:00 PM   #6
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Why not headers with 200cell racing cats?
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Old 04-27-2008, 01:12 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JJR4884 View Post
everything that you just listed costs more than a supercharger with probably less gains...........


i would say get a 3.46
exhaust

and see where that puts you

but going N/A all the way is gonna cost you a very pretty penny
I was thinking it could be an expensive endeavour. I'd complain that a 3.46 is not gas-friendly.....but then neither is the N/A idea, lol.

I need to ride in someone's E46 manual with a 3.46. I always thought it'd be too aggressive for a 5-speed.... but maybe I'm wrong?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Double Vanos
Damn seems like 255 is alot hell even the US spec E36 M3 didn't have that much hp from it's 3.2L engine. I think you'll come close but to 255 seems too much.
Yeah it does. I still feel it's possible, though. But agreeing with Ken it could get quite expensive to reach past this plateau. But at what "cost" to the engines durability (hence, the "safely" in the title.) Hmmm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kpeng
If you're going to do N/A "power" modifications...headers, differential, and cams are the only thing worth doing. Everything else will give you little to no gain.
Wassup, Ken. Well, I'd have to sneak headers in between emissions checks, lol. Swap back the Oem for each check. But that'd be a pain in the arse. Probably would want to look at an LSD unit at the HP level as well I'm guessing?



Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdog2003_99
what about the e36 intake manifolds? do they fit, both engines are m52's and if i'm not mistaken they are metal, so you can port them...

also what about a crank swap to 3.0, will that hurt your emissions?

as far as cams, i wonder how the schrick 264's would run in your car?
I've heard of using the E36 intake manifold, but I need to do some research on that. That'd be cool if they can be ported!

Crank...I would probably opt against (would want to keep it less invasive as possible.) Hence the reason I'm happy my pistons are all firing very well (no need to replace those).

Cams...hmm, with that degree, what could I expect to see in the realm of performance? I suspect a 272 is too aggressive for street use (or am I incorrect?)
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Old 04-27-2008, 01:13 PM   #8
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Why not headers with 200cell racing cats?
I think there's no way they would pass emissions tests here in NC. I'll have to ask around to guys with racing cats (on non BMW cars) to see how in the heck they get away with it, lol.
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Old 04-27-2008, 01:14 PM   #9
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just the 3.46 should put you at E90 330 straight line level.
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Old 04-27-2008, 01:21 PM   #10
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People say a modded 323 5spd + 3.46 will hang with a manual 330i from a dig up to ~90mph. I would imagine if you threw in a 3.46 (go 3.46 or go home) you'd be pretty close.

I just got a 3.46 for my 323i, and whoa, did it change the car! It is sooo much more reponsive, and actually feels fast for once haha. The E90 330i is just on a different level. If you're going to put a new diff, put in a 3.46. I wouldn't bother with anything taller. The 3.46 is perfect.
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Old 04-27-2008, 01:31 PM   #11
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People say a modded 323 5spd + 3.46 will hang with a manual 330i from a dig up to ~90mph. I would imagine if you threw in a 3.46 (go 3.46 or go home) you'd be pretty close.

I just got a 3.46 for my 323i, and whoa, did it change the car! It is sooo much more reponsive, and actually feels fast for once haha. The E90 330i is just on a different level. If you're going to put a new diff, put in a 3.46. I wouldn't bother with anything taller. The 3.46 is perfect.

Did you notice any issues getting out of 1st gear (was it seemingly too short with the 3.46?)

Gas-wise, any more thristy with the 3.46?

I might do this, given i've come up empty looking for a 3.23 from a totalled 325xi (very rare).
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Old 04-27-2008, 02:04 PM   #12
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Old 04-27-2008, 02:05 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Transporter99 View Post
Did you notice any issues getting out of 1st gear (was it seemingly too short with the 3.46?)

Gas-wise, any more thristy with the 3.46?

I might do this, given i've come up empty looking for a 3.23 from a totalled 325xi (very rare).
1st gear is no problem, and its even nicer, because unless you're at a complete stop, just leave it in 2nd.

Any more thirsty? On the highway, you might drop a mpg or two, but it shouldn't make a difference whatsoever around town, except you might be a little more "pedal happy".

Don't do a 3.23 man, what a waste. Go 3.46 or go home, and it's the cheapest diff for our cars. You won't regret it.
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Old 04-27-2008, 02:13 PM   #14
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1st gear is no problem, and its even nicer, because unless you're at a complete stop, just leave it in 2nd.

Any more thirsty? On the highway, you might drop a mpg or two, but it shouldn't make a difference whatsoever around town, except you might be a little more "pedal happy".

Don't do a 3.23 man, what a waste. Go 3.46 or go home, and it's the cheapest diff for our cars. You won't regret it.
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Old 04-27-2008, 02:21 PM   #15
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Hmmmmmmm. 265hp and 249lb/ft.


That kit has to be MAJOR cash, though.

1 crankshaft
6 pistons
6 connecting rods
1 inlet manifold
1 cylinder head gasket

After that cost/install, I'll be PRAYING for a Supercharger, lol!
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Old 04-27-2008, 03:46 PM   #16
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In NC, all you have to do is pass the ODB II emissions test. This basically means that as long as you aren't throwing codes, you'll be fine. Something like the AA software which stops the computer from checking the O2 Sensor after the cats will get you through state inspection.
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Old 04-27-2008, 03:50 PM   #17
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Or register it in SC lol there are no emissions here at all but like others said headers/cams/new diff will be the most beneficial
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Old 04-27-2008, 03:51 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Transporter99 View Post
Okay, I know some are DYING to post "Supercharger...end thread." I'm not letting you off the hook that easy!

I'm thinking about ideas to achieve E90 330i levels of hp or straight line performance. Obviously, i could just get the damn car (which I hate, except the engine, lol) or the engine itself, but what's the fun in that?

I'm currently @ 198 flywheel. Now....I'm in a "green" state, of sorts. Meaning, unlike back home in Minnesota where you can practically run with fire and smoke billowing from exposed exhaust ports, etc...North Carolina is very strict and require all emissions regulators on vehicles. And yearly checks. So...this will need to be achieved without getting headers.

Existing:
Dinan SII software
Dinan CF CAI

Thoughts on what might help achieve 255+:
- Full Cat back (UUC perhaps)
- performance pulley
- Electric water pump to reduce engine load
- Differential (3.23 +)
- new plasma coils
- Cams (are there even any available for a 328i?)
- Intake manifold (VERY rare. Spotted a few Alpina Intake manifolds, but pricey and with unknown performance gains for JUST the manifold alone).
- New pistons? (had mine checked in Feb & all 6 were firing great, though)
- Port/polish (any real benefit?)


Again, this is just a brainstorm and not a plan in action. A supercharger might very well be the simplest plan of attack and less complex. Just the thought of an N/A engine being a little more raucous has always been intriguing.
i really think you're going to have to consider headers. you can get headers and high flow cats and still pass the sniffer(if they even do it, we have yearly tests here, including emissions, but they don't sniff OBDII cars). the stock exhaust manifolds are such a restriction, a 55hp gain would be pretty tough to do. the full cat back might give you 3hp, thats not a lot. you can stick with your stock exhaust and headers and come out with more power than a full catback without headers.

the rest of your ideas are likely sound ones, though you'd be on your own i think about the electric water pump, i dunno how many people have even gone that route with these cars...
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Old 04-27-2008, 03:56 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Transporter99 View Post
I've heard of using the E36 intake manifold, but I need to do some research on that. That'd be cool if they can be ported!

Crank...I would probably opt against (would want to keep it less invasive as possible.) Hence the reason I'm happy my pistons are all firing very well (no need to replace those).

Cams...hmm, with that degree, what could I expect to see in the realm of performance? I suspect a 272 is too aggressive for street use (or am I incorrect?)
if you compare the e36 m52 intake manifold on realoem to the e46 m52tu, they are very different, ports are completely different shapes, bolt locations aren't the same, itd be one hell of a project to try and rig that to fit.
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Old 04-27-2008, 05:19 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DwrdSpyrl View Post
In NC, all you have to do is pass the ODB II emissions test. This basically means that as long as you aren't throwing codes, you'll be fine. Something like the AA software which stops the computer from checking the O2 Sensor after the cats will get you through state inspection.
Good to know. Well if this can be accomplished with headers......



Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamBath
i really think you're going to have to consider headers. you can get headers and high flow cats and still pass the sniffer(if they even do it, we have yearly tests here, including emissions, but they don't sniff OBDII cars). the stock exhaust manifolds are such a restriction, a 55hp gain would be pretty tough to do. the full cat back might give you 3hp, thats not a lot. you can stick with your stock exhaust and headers and come out with more power than a full catback without headers.

I was afraid of that. Well, it sounds like it's going to be a trial & error scenario on the headers passing emissions. Being that I just registered my plates, I have some time to get them and hopefully figure out any issues relating to codes (see above quote.)
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