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Old 07-14-2015, 09:47 PM   #1
jeffrop
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03 330i limp mode?

***This issue has been resolved!!! See last page for the cure - thanks jfoj for your input and effort to try and get this problem figured out***

I realize this is my 1st post here but I've been lurking for some time now and reading up on the various problems/maintenance items for these cars. I bought a problem car a couple months ago with the intention of getting a good deal on a used BMW and fixing it up to maybe sell or keep as a daily driver. There were the typical lean codes when I bought it (P0171, P0174, P1083, P1085) but the car ran ok. I drove it home on the highway without any drivability issues. When I got it home after a 45 minute drive it started to act up: it would stall, idle rough, and blow a big puff of white smoke out the exhaust when I shut the car off. But it would then run good for awhile and start the idle/stalling issue again.

I went online and found jfoj's thread about the maintenance stuff so I started replacing those items: Fuel pump & filter, CCV(cheap ebay one) and hoses, ICV, DISA o-ring(the DISA was replaced in 2011 by previous owner I later found out), long vac hose on left side of engine that wraps around valve cover to rear under intake, larger hose to air pump, both intake boots(both were cracked), spark plugs, MAF(Delphi). I also replaced the serpentine belt and power steering pump(no power steering), reservoir, oil and filter. The air filter looked ok to me but probably should be changed also.

The previous owner replaced the valve cover gasket, plugs, overflow tank, DISA(as mentioned above), some other misc. items (brake pads/rotors/control arms/power brake booster).

Car is a 2003 330i (build date: 10/02) VIN ending: KM26866

I bought an OBDLink OBD2 scan tool that works with a smartphone app and pulled some data out of the car(see attached report). Now the car will start and idle for a few minutes but eventually the idle speed increases up to 12xx rpms and will start to surge if I touch the accelerator pedal, it won't rev up past 2500 rpm's now and when I try to drive it, it goes into what I can only describe as "Limp mode". It doesn't let me go any faster than 20-25 mph and it wants to stay in 1st or 2nd gear. The SES, Brake, and triangle all illuminate, the EML will light up too. There's a noticeable odor coming from the exhaust and it appears to be running very rich(black sooty exhaust) also.

The car is not currently driveable due to 'limp mode' taking affect as soon as I drive any distance. After a period of being shut off, it no longer appears to be in limp mode but still will not rev past 2500 or so RPM's.

Some direction from some of the experts would be greatly appreciated at this point. I don't want to just throw money at it. If I need to provide more info/data please let me know.

Thanks in advance for any assistance or guidance you can provide!
Attached Files
File Type: pdf 330i Diagnostic report_7-14-2015.pdf (80.4 KB, 33 views)

Last edited by jeffrop; 08-01-2015 at 06:54 AM.
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Old 07-14-2015, 09:57 PM   #2
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Report is not very helpful as the engine was not running when the data was gathered.

Need to see what the MAF rate is in Grams/Sec at idle. Chances you need to go into the Settings, Units, Airflow and set this to g/s.

I see you noted the MAF was a Delphi, probably needs to be replaced with an OEM Bosch/Siemens?

Also you may want to confirm the pre-cat O2 sensor wiring is not swapped bank to bank.

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showpos...0&postcount=27

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showpos...0&postcount=26

Would like to see warm idle Fuel Trim values.

You will need to go to the Dashboard and set up guages for the STFT and LTFT or figure out how to Log and upload the .CSV file to DropBox and post a link for the Log to be reviewed.
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Last edited by jfoj; 07-14-2015 at 09:58 PM.
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Old 07-14-2015, 10:41 PM   #3
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jfoj thanks for the quick reply! Here's the best I can do for now, it's late here and I need to get to bed. Forgot to mention the battery is relatively new also (replaced by previous owner in last 6 months). The MAF I just bought brand new from Rockauto and put on tonight before I ran the reports. The car ran/behaved the same prior to replacing the original MAF(Siemens/VDO unit).

See new report with engine running and MAF g/s unit of measure.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf 330i Diagnostic report2_7-14-2015.pdf (80.5 KB, 22 views)
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Old 07-15-2015, 07:56 AM   #4
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OK, this report is a bit more helpful, but still only a single snap shot and it is lacking more details that is needed.

A few works in this statement stands out -
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffrop View Post
I bought a problem car a couple months ago with the intention of getting a good deal on a used BMW and fixing it up to maybe sell or keep as a daily driver.
SO, lets start with the ASSUMPTION that nothing has been done correctly on this car before you purchased it.

First things first, put the original MAF back on the car for now while we attempt to figure out what is going on.

Next, you need to set up and Log a 4 min cold start letting the car idle on its own in park or neutral. This is a very important starting point.

Then I would like to see a 3-4 minute warm idle Log as well.

I need all sensors the the App can pick up.

The OBDLink interface is one of the fastest and most reliable interfaces on the market and the software is an OEM version of Touch Scan/OBDFusion.

If you note the Fuel System Status is listed at 8, which means - Open loop due to system failure.

Also note that the O2 sensor Voltages are all high, close to 1 Volt which means they are detecting a Rich condition, likely due to cold start enrichment/lack of the ability Closed Loop fuel control.

The first thing I would focus on after putting the original MAF back on the engine would be to verify that the Pre-Cat O2 sensor wiring is not swapped bank to bank.

If you read what I posted earlier, this should be pretty quick and easy once you have set up a Dashboard with gauges for the Pre-Cat O2 sensor Voltages.
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Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temp, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

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Lower hose temp switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
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Old 07-15-2015, 08:04 AM   #5
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Consider doing a smoke test to look for vacuum leaks. Test the intake, crankcase, brake booster, SAP hoses.
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Old 07-15-2015, 06:27 PM   #6
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Hope I did this right...put the original MAF on. I looked at the precat sensors/connectors and they don't appear to be reversed but I'm not 100% sure I know what I'm looking at. I don't think the cables can be switched around due to length limitations?

Anyway I ran the first log right at startup for just under 5 min. Then I turned the car off momentarily, then restarted the engine and ran another log (warm).

I forgot to capture the Diagnostic report so I restarted the engine, reconnected the tool and pulled a report/uploaded it.

Again, I appreciate you taking the time jfoj!

Diagnostic is attached. The two logs (cold, warm) are linked below:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/4h9va7q5r3..._cold.csv?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/p4iyq32o7z..._warm.csv?dl=0
Attached Files
File Type: pdf 330i Diagnostic report_7-15-2015.pdf (333.4 KB, 15 views)
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Old 07-15-2015, 07:09 PM   #7
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Initial take there are a few things I am a bit concerned about. In each of the Logs, there is no value for the MAF, it is 0, however, the Diagnostic report has a value for the MAF.

I would go to the Dashboard, set up a Guage for the MAF and see if you can get any readings.

Most of these engines run about 4-5 Grams/Sec at idle in neutral as I recall.

The Pre-Cat O2 sensor wiring is usually long enough to swap, the Post-Cat wiring is a bit harder to swap bank to bank.

Monitor the Voltage on the Pre-Cat O2 sensors, unplug one sensor, see what Bank changes back to around 0.42 Volts. Then trace the wire to determine if the connection/sensor is for the correct bank.
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Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temp, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose temp switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299

Last edited by jfoj; 07-15-2015 at 07:10 PM.
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Old 07-16-2015, 07:16 PM   #8
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More logs...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/sog9ik21zk...port.html?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/33dakulbmm...81542.csv?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/u3hpbfowna...82258.csv?dl=0

I did add the MAF gauge to the dashboard and it was reading between 12.3 and 12.5 and would sometimes vary outside that range. It never got below 11.9 though...

I'll try the suggestion with the 02 sensors next

Last edited by jeffrop; 07-16-2015 at 07:18 PM.
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Old 07-16-2015, 07:56 PM   #9
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Just verified the wiring is correct for the 02 sensors by using your suggestion with the dashboard
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Old 07-16-2015, 08:15 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffrop View Post
More logs...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/sog9ik21zk...port.html?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/33dakulbmm...81542.csv?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/u3hpbfowna...82258.csv?dl=0

I did add the MAF gauge to the dashboard and it was reading between 12.3 and 12.5 and would sometimes vary outside that range. It never got below 11.9 though...

I'll try the suggestion with the 02 sensors next
Have not looked at the Logs yet, but if the MAF Grams/Sec reading never gets below 11.9 Gram/Sec, this is an issue. These engines should have a MAF reading of around 4-5 Grams/Sec at warm idle in Park or Neutral.

So if you have 2 MAF's suggest you gather data with both MAF's.

The cheap replacement may not be a really good option, but it is something else to compare against.

Shooting from the hip, if the MAF does not read less than 11.9 g/s, then this will cause too much fuel to be added to the engine, which should push the Fuel Trims to a negative value and would cause the O2 sensors to possibly read high. I have to look over all the Log files and see if this is in fact what is going on.

So with not knowing much about the history of the car, we may also have to make some assumptions and/or start from the beginning with assuming nothing is correct on the car, but for now, we will focus on the very high MAF readings.
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Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temp, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

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Lower hose temp switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
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Old 07-16-2015, 08:25 PM   #11
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Im starting to get the hang of this app...never did anything like this before..well I have a SCT tuner with logging capability for my late model Camaro so I've at least done some logging of some sort...anyway here's another log file with a bunch of erroneous items turned off (Bank 1, sensor 3, sensor 4, etc.)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/xa0cev50mg...11238.csv?dl=0
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Old 07-16-2015, 08:30 PM   #12
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If I can get a 2nd wind tonight, I will try to check out these Logs and comment.

If I can find anything useful, I will convert the graphs to jpg files and give you a link so you can download and post them in the thread here so others can follow and learn.
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Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temp, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose temp switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
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Old 07-17-2015, 07:11 AM   #13
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OK, latest Log looks better, I am now seeing the MAF values, it may have been possible that the MAF values were somehow being displayed in the wrong column in the prior .CSV files??

So you need to change your Log time to 1000 msec or 1 second, it looks like it is currently set to on either a GPS or PID frame?

Set the Logging Trigger to - Fixed sample time

I think the program may?? default to 250 msec sample time, I find for some applications this can be too fast, so I like 1000 msec/1 sec.

It appears the DME is going into "Open loop due to system failure" around 65-70 seconds due to a pretty big problem. It does not look like the DME is/can actually start closed look fuel control.

O2 sensor appear to be working, but your SAP system may not be working based on what I am seeing with the O2 sensor traces.

Can you confirm that your car has a SAP system and that is appears to be working or the pump motor is actually turning on. Even if the pump motor is running, there still may be problems with the SAP system.

One step at a time.

Try to get a lot with the MAF disconnected as this may give some more insight as to what may be going on.
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Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temp, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose temp switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
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Old 07-18-2015, 10:09 AM   #14
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The car def has the SAP setup. I did change the large hose between the pump and the valve recently, along with replacing the small long hose from the valve to the rear of the engine (with standard vacuum rubber hose). I'm wondering if the small hose is too small/flimsy to hold vacuum? I tucked it into the metal clips that also hold the wire harness for the O2 sensors and I noticed the other night the rubber looked a little pinched. I haven't had a chance to run another log yet but I did pull the small rubber hose out in the open so it shouldn't be pinched anymore.

I'm about to run a new log with the updated settings you recommended. Back in a few.

I found a dry rotted vac hose at the firewall end under the plenum between a little white/gray check valve and the underside of the plenum. It was a bitch but I finally got it replaced. Regarding the SAP pump and valve, and corresponding vacuum hose, when I pull the hose off the valve it should have vacuum on it right? There is no vacuum currently. If I pull the hose and blow into it I can hear air at the back of the plenum - there is no vacuum on this hose when the car is running either.

Here's a photo of the hose I'm referring to above:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/zv9byhbext...photo.jpg?dl=0

Here's the latest log file:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/a0egdvj62g...21220.csv?dl=0

Last edited by jeffrop; 07-18-2015 at 11:41 AM.
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Old 07-18-2015, 12:02 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffrop View Post
The car def has the SAP setup. I did change the large hose between the pump and the valve recently, along with replacing the small long hose from the valve to the rear of the engine (with standard vacuum rubber hose). I'm wondering if the small hose is too small/flimsy to hold vacuum? I tucked it into the metal clips that also hold the wire harness for the O2 sensors and I noticed the other night the rubber looked a little pinched. I haven't had a chance to run another log yet but I did pull the small rubber hose out in the open so it shouldn't be pinched anymore.

I'm about to run a new log with the updated settings you recommended. Back in a few.

I found a dry rotted vac hose at the firewall end under the plenum between a little white/gray check valve and the underside of the plenum. It was a bitch but I finally got it replaced. Regarding the SAP pump and valve, and corresponding vacuum hose, when I pull the hose off the valve it should have vacuum on it right? There is no vacuum currently. If I pull the hose and blow into it I can hear air at the back of the plenum - there is no vacuum on this hose when the car is running either.

Here's a photo of the hose I'm referring to above:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/zv9byhbext...photo.jpg?dl=0

Here's the latest log file:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/a0egdvj62g...21220.csv?dl=0
The small hose to the Kombi valve on the front of the cylinder head only has vacuum for up to 90 seconds on cold start or until the engine hits 100F.

If you blow into the hose on the Kombi valve end, you will hear noise/air blowing at the back of the intake because the electrically controlled SAP solenoid vents this side of the vacuum system to atmosphere when there is not power to the solenoid.
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Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temp, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

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Lower hose temp switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
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Old 07-18-2015, 12:16 PM   #16
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The latest file was taken when the engine temp was actually at 107F, so the SAP would not be running for this Log file.

Also if you could UNSELECT ALL the items that are not supported by your car in the Log. Turn the ignition on and have the App connect to the car, go to items to Log, anything supported will have small texted under it that states it is supported of the car or something like that.

This will speed up the polling interval and cut down on some of the confusion.

I was also mislead on the lack of a MAF reading earlier due to the MAF reading I found in one of the last columns was actually a "calculated" MAF reading, but this shows up as all 0's if the car actually has a MAF. So I missed the MAF reading earlier in the columns.

Also please confirm the build month and year of the car, should be on the sticker in the door jam.

I am a bit confused as to why the closed look fuel control is not working properly. Starting to wonder if you unplug the Evap solenoid if anything will change. The Evap solenoid in under the front of the intake in front of the throttle body.

I assume you have not been driving this car much if any??

I may want to see a warm idle Log, engine at 200F or higher for about 3-4 minutes and I would like to see a real cold start with the engine coolant temp at or below 75F for 4 minutes.

I will try to look over what you have captured and try to figure something out but I will be away from the computer a lot this weekend.
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Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temp, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose temp switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
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Old 07-18-2015, 12:39 PM   #17
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I posted the build month in my 1st post above: 10/02

No this car is not being driven at all. It is not drivable in it's current condition.

I will refine the log settings even further as requested. At the very least, I'm learning how to properly log what's going on with the car.

Thanks again for taking the time jfoj...
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Old 07-18-2015, 01:08 PM   #18
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Interesting thing just happened...I unplugged the evap solenoid as you mentioned and the car started normally. Prior to this the car was cranking for 3-5 seconds (sometimes longer) before it would fire.

I'm letting the car cool down before I do anymore logging. I did go thru the log settings in the app though and took out all the unsupported functions to help clean it up.

I guess I should clarify that by "Evap solenoid" are you referring to item 1 in this image?
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=13_0798

Last edited by jeffrop; 07-18-2015 at 01:27 PM.
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Old 07-18-2015, 03:52 PM   #19
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Sorry if I missed the build month and date, I deal with so many issues on so many forums things start to become a blur after a while.

Yes the Evap solenoid is #1 in the diagram.

So we may be on to something. As I recall the Evap solenoid and the DISA use the same connector and the wires are long enough to swap between each device.

Hopefully the problem is this simple, if so, sorry I did not mention this earlier, but when I cannot touch the car, I have to rely on a lot of info coming from people that can actually put their hands on the car and I also have to make a lot of assumptions about things.

I feel like Carnac at times -
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Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temp, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose temp switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
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Old 07-18-2015, 06:40 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfoj View Post
So we may be on to something. As I recall the Evap solenoid and the DISA use the same connector and the wires are long enough to swap between each device.

Hopefully the problem is this simple...
Nope not that simple. The DISA wire/connector will reach(the Evap solenoid) but the tension is too tight and the inherent bend in the wire/loom suggests that's not where it goes.

Conversely, the evap solenoid harness will not reach the DISA connection - not long enough. I really was hoping it was that simple.

Do you suspect a bad evap solenoid maybe? Want me to capture another log? You had mentioned before about unplugging the MAF connector. Just let me know specifically what I should unhook, or leave hooked up for the latest log.
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