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Old 05-07-2014, 11:28 AM   #1
SOMT
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Bogging even after VANOS seals

A few days ago I installed the Beisan VANOS seals. I found they were much needed along with the exhaust cam sensor. Long story short, it feels much better. However I still have two problems, possibly related to each other.

When cold, for example sitting over night, it will still drop idle to below 500 rpm or so for a second and shoot back up to normal idle (~1k rpm before secondary air pump shuts off). I know bad VANOS seals can cause this symptom, but I'm confident in the job I did replacing those seals. It does this until about the quarter mark on the temp gauge. Once it's warmed up to the quarter mark I start driving and it idles at 600 with no shaking or rough idle. Quite smooth.

The second issue I've found is that after I've driven it up to operating temp, park, then try to start it up again (think running to the grocery store and back) it will stall as soon as I start letting the clutch out and start accelerating. This happens in reverse and during take off from first. At first I thought this was related to the VANOS and Exhaust cam sensor because it was doing this before I replaced those parts. But it did it to me again the day after replacing the seals and sensor.

If I try hard enough and give it a lot of gas and keep the RPMs above 1k I can aggressively drive it home, but if I don't do this it will stall when coming to a traffic light or during deceleration to the point where it reaches idle.

This was solved with a new intake cam positions sensor.

I do THINK that I have a vacuum leak and I have a feeling that it may be the problem, but I have no SES light or anything. I just wanted to gather some knowledge here in hopes that there isn't another cause. The last thing I want to do is hunt down vacuum leaks because I know it's going to be a headache. I can hear some fairly loud hissing at what seems to be the top rear portion of the intake manifold area.

I don't own a T40 bit/socket yet so I don't want to just start tearing things apart unless I can do the whole job. I'd like to clean the throttle body and ICV when I go to replace the intake boots. Anyone have any input or ideas as to where a vacuum leak could be located in that area?

I haven't considered fuel pump or filter yet solely because I know there is a vacuum leak. Also, the VANOS was a breeze and I can pretty confidently rule out those being an issue.

Sorry for the TL;DR..

Last edited by SOMT; 05-29-2014 at 12:20 PM. Reason: Updated Information
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Old 05-07-2014, 11:36 AM   #2
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I hear you, and certainly if you have any of those problems they need to be fixed.

Regardless, I'd still replace your Fuel Filter & run a can of BG 44K (Dealer Grade Fuel Injector Cleaner) through your system.


Good luck.
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Nitrous is a little trickier than boost, but it's not the spray that kills motors, it's STUPIDITY!!
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Old 05-07-2014, 11:41 AM   #3
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I suppose I could give that a try. If I remember correctly I still had well above a quarter tank of gas when it happened last, so I put fuel pump on the bottom of the list. BG 44k.. that's the stuff I can get at any local auto parts store correct?

Anyone have any suggestions on the vacuum leak locations? I know of the common ones, CCV, DISA, Intake Boots, Secondary air pump... but I swear I hear it much loud towards the top rear portion of the intake manifold...
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Old 05-07-2014, 12:32 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by SOMT View Post
I suppose I could give that a try. If I remember correctly I still had well above a quarter tank of gas when it happened last, so I put fuel pump on the bottom of the list. BG 44k.. that's the stuff I can get at any local auto parts store correct?

Anyone have any suggestions on the vacuum leak locations? I know of the common ones, CCV, DISA, Intake Boots, Secondary air pump... but I swear I hear it much loud towards the top rear portion of the intake manifold...

No, typically not found at an auto parts store. Most German / European car dealers stock it, or Ebay/Amazon.


http://www.amazon.com/BG-44K-Fuel-Sy...eywords=bg+44k
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Nitrous is a little trickier than boost, but it's not the spray that kills motors, it's STUPIDITY!!

Last edited by Rob43; 05-07-2014 at 12:33 PM.
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Old 05-07-2014, 12:36 PM   #5
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I actually saw some of that at a local auto zone, but I'd bet it's cheaper online. I'll take a look at that for sure.
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Old 05-29-2014, 12:32 PM   #6
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Bump, updated info a bit. Still looking for suggestions.
It has the same symptoms that VANOS seals would cause, but he seals were replaced. I took extreme care and followed the DIY to the T.

Another question, would a bad CCV cause this? I know that the hose from the VC to the CCV isn't on all the way. It was loose and while replacing the Cam sensor I bumped it and it fell off. I pushed it back on the best I could I couldn't hear it click. I realize this could cause a vacuum leak.

So I'm back to this question: Will a vacuum leak actually cause the bogging of the idle, during warmup, similar to bad VANOS seals? I would try and take a video today but I would need it to fully cool down before doing so.
It seems that the bogging idle (maybe slight misfire?) starts just after the secondary air pump shuts off. Once the car warms up the idle is great short of a tiny bit of idle movement.

Current parts on order: CCV kit, Cooling system refresh kit, Disa o-ring, throttle body gasket (for when I clean the ICV and maybe throttle body), and lower intake hose. Upper hose looked pretty good and I know it's more common for the lower hose to crack.

Really hoping for suggestions that I can work with. I'm OCD about my cars and even though it still drives and runs fine once warm I prefer to relieve the motor of any issues.

Reminder, I have NO dash lights on.
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Old 05-29-2014, 12:57 PM   #7
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I am also interested in input.

I have similar symptoms, but milder than you (my post here ):
Very mild idle drop and shoot back up when cold, then everything is fine when warm. Though, if I turn the car off and start it up again, I will have a big loss in power, and the car will barely accelerate. Doesn't stall on its own, but it will stall in first when going if I don't rev it up to 2k+ rpms.

The other sympton that I have is a CEL light that goes on when I reach 1/2 gas tank (fuel tank pressure and misfire cyl2), and goes away when I refill.

I also changed VANOS seals, followed the DIY perfectly.
Changed VGC, MAF sensor, Intake Cam Position Sensor, fuel filter, CCV, spark plugs and other intake orings/gasket/boot parts. Cleaned injectors, ICV,Throttle body and ECU connections. Used seafoam in brake booster + gas tank. Changed all the vacuum hoses and smoke tested the intake, didn't find any leaks. Fuel pump is OEM and 5 year old, tested the pressure on the fuel rail, was fine.

Now, I know that the vacuum pump on my DISA valve is not holding vacuum, and I most likely have a leak at the headers downpipe and catalytic exhaust connection.
Why does the power goes away ONLY when I turn off the engine and start it again when warm? It seems so weird.

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Old 05-29-2014, 02:02 PM   #8
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I too think I have an exhaust leak, but that should be unrelated. The first symptom you posted sounds identical to the one I resolved. Here's what I did, in order, to fix the issue.
Beisan Vanos gaskets, exhaust cam position sensor, intake cam position sensor. It wasn't actually fixed until the cam position sensor. So my suggestion would be to either:
1) replace exhaust cam sensor as well w/ OEM sensor.
2) If you used anything other than OEM to replace your intake cam sensor then get an OEM one.

You probably have a decent amount of mileage, so I suggest you replace your fuel pump and filter. It's very smart to do so anyways because it'll eventually leave you stranded and is considered required preventative maintenance. It may resolve your check engine light. Otherwise maybe you have a bad gas cap.
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Old 05-29-2014, 02:16 PM   #9
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I wish there were a stickied thread on the very top of the forum about this.
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Old 05-29-2014, 02:24 PM   #10
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I wish people who had nothing to contribute besides postings that I've already read would offer some assistance.

I read that, hence why I have parts on the way. What you've failed to do is give positive constructive help. I haven't read anywhere, with reliable results, that have helped me thus far. Instead of re reading a thread that I've read many times, I'd rather have people with first hand experience describe what they went through and how it was resolved.

But I appreciate your sarcasm. Actually wait..

Last edited by SOMT; 05-29-2014 at 02:57 PM.
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Old 05-29-2014, 02:36 PM   #11
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doing all that with no codes huh? did you try to read them? they can be there and not trigger light

is that sarcasm?


i suppose it is, next time you join a forum , try not to jump at the guys that have been here a while

you must understand

we have become conditioned by jackasses like you

good luck
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Old 05-29-2014, 02:53 PM   #12
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doing all that with no codes huh? did you try to read them? they can be there and not trigger light

is that sarcasm?


i suppose it is, next time you join a forum , try not to jump at the guys that have been here a while

you must understand

we have become conditioned by jackasses like you

good luck


The problem is, there's an assumption that I didn't read anything at all. Instead of assuming people haven't done the necessary steps when researching a problem on a forum, maybe form it into a question instead of a sarcastic comment.

If there were hidden codes I would have stated so, as I know what I'm doing just like you "veterans".

My suggestion? Don't jump at the "new people" or post sarcastic responses that don't help one bit. I've read that sticky topic, as well as all the VANOS threads and anything related.

I think you're missing the fact that the sarcastic people are the one that look like jackasses. You must understand.

If I hadn't eliminated all other possibilities I wouldn't have posted the question. Nobody here was being a jackass until useless sarcastic comments come flowing, then it seems appropriate to respond as such.

Last edited by SOMT; 05-29-2014 at 02:55 PM.
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Old 05-29-2014, 02:59 PM   #13
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might be a shot in the dark but, are your cam position sensors oem? i had the same issues when i used the cheaper CPS's from bavauto. I replaced them with sensors from autohausAZ problem solved.

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Old 05-29-2014, 03:02 PM   #14
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might be a shot in the dark but, are your cam position sensors oem? i had the same issues when i used the cheaper CPS's from bavauto. I replaced them with sensors from autohausAZ problem solved.
If this is regarding me, then yes they are OEM. I know better than that thanks to research. I have NO lights, hidden or not.
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Old 05-29-2014, 03:45 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOMT View Post


The problem is, there's an assumption that I didn't read anything at all. Instead of assuming people haven't done the necessary steps when researching a problem on a forum, maybe form it into a question instead of a sarcastic comment.

If there were hidden codes I would have stated so, as I know what I'm doing just like you "veterans".

My suggestion? Don't jump at the "new people" or post sarcastic responses that don't help one bit. I've read that sticky topic, as well as all the VANOS threads and anything related.

I think you're missing the fact that the sarcastic people are the one that look like jackasses. You must understand.

If I hadn't eliminated all other possibilities I wouldn't have posted the question. Nobody here was being a jackass until useless sarcastic comments come flowing, then it seems appropriate to respond as such.
so he responds with a post littered with sarcasm





you need to be more humble, whether you read or not,you're asking for help, if you knew what you were doing, you wouldn't be asking, you'd just fix it


brilliant bud, brilliant
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Old 05-29-2014, 03:49 PM   #16
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You're just trolling at this point. Instead of twisting my words just be helpful. I know what I'm doing in that I know how to work on my own car. Is it not appropriate to respond to sarcasm with sarcasm? Everything started off humble until the unwanted sarcasm showed up. Sorry if I caused any butthurt, but next time treat me how you'd like to be treated.

Last edited by SOMT; 05-29-2014 at 04:07 PM. Reason: Since Wasp edited his words
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Old 05-29-2014, 04:16 PM   #17
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OP,

Out of curiosity, did you run a can of BG 44K throught it yet ?



Rob43
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Nitrous is a little trickier than boost, but it's not the spray that kills motors, it's STUPIDITY!!
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Old 05-29-2014, 04:22 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOMT View Post
I too think I have an exhaust leak, but that should be unrelated. The first symptom you posted sounds identical to the one I resolved. Here's what I did, in order, to fix the issue.
Beisan Vanos gaskets, exhaust cam position sensor, intake cam position sensor. It wasn't actually fixed until the cam position sensor. So my suggestion would be to either:
1) replace exhaust cam sensor as well w/ OEM sensor.
2) If you used anything other than OEM to replace your intake cam sensor then get an OEM one.

You probably have a decent amount of mileage, so I suggest you replace your fuel pump and filter. It's very smart to do so anyways because it'll eventually leave you stranded and is considered required preventative maintenance. It may resolve your check engine light. Otherwise maybe you have a bad gas cap.
As indicated in my post I already changed the fuel filter, and checked on the fuel pump. Fuel pump is an OEM VDO Siemens fuel pump from 2009, so it *should* be fine. The pressure at the fuel rail was in the spec too. This is why I find it so strange to see fuel-pump related codes that come and go with fuel tank level. Maybe a stuck siphon or something?
Didn't list it but I changed the gas cap too, and changed all vacuum and fuel hoses connected to the fuel pressure regulator. Also cleaned the VANOS/MAF connectors and used a pick to *repair* them.

The intake CPS I have is BWD, I didn't know better at that time. Anybody has review on that particular brand? I could afford not to spend $100 to replace a 3 month old sensor that cost me $90

Last edited by Icucicu; 05-29-2014 at 04:29 PM.
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Old 05-30-2014, 07:23 AM   #19
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I don't have any experience with the brand you asked about. I've just always seen that OEM really is the only way to go when it comes to sensors. Especially with all the failures on aftermarket ones. I'm not real sure what else to tell you that will help. You have the same particular symptoms I had and every time I searched it all lined up with the intake cam sensor. Once I replaced that it never happened again. Sucks that you just bought it though

Last edited by SOMT; 05-30-2014 at 07:24 AM.
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Old 05-30-2014, 07:30 AM   #20
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Quote:
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I wish people who had nothing to contribute besides postings that I've already read would offer some assistance.
So what you're saying is you already did crimp your connections?
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