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Old 07-03-2008, 09:34 PM   #21
Mr Paddle.Shift
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I have a track car that I compete in NASA TTD, So Cal #69. My blog link in the signature. Tons of pics. The car has been inspected and approved as a TTD car with every pt carefully scrutinized. Greg Greenbaum, director of NASA TT, resides in So Cal. So he's our group leader for all So Cal events. If he suspects that you have beefed up your car w/o telling him, there will be consequences. I have witnessed situations like that.

I never really set out to build a TT car per se. It all started with HPDE, lapping days and one day I decided to compete against time. Did NASA TT for a year and a half. Won a couple medals. Recently picked to compete in UTCC, which was quite an experience. The car is still drive-able on the streets. And yes, I still have a CD player and my faithful A/C. My rollbar is custom built so I can load up 4 R-comps in the rear seat. At the tracks, I do all the work myself. After the event I drive home a happy clam.
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Old 07-03-2008, 09:41 PM   #22
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Greg,

Actually NASA HPDE3 and HPDE4 are allowed to timed their laps. HPDE4 and TT often run in the same group.

Different regions have slightly different safety requirements for NASA TT . But if you want to do a proper safety setup for a TT classed car, it has to follow the race rules. I know this for sure when I customized my roll-bar, bucket seat, 6pt etc. Yes, I do have a annual inspection log book. Like you, I show them my car at the first event and I am good to go for the season. Also, for who has the right to the corner, we follow the CCR rules. Just no contact. Doesn't CCA follow that vintage car racing rules too?

Now wrt to w2w > TT, I have my own opinions about that. If that inequality refers to fun, then I agree. Actually I would add an equality: w2w >= TT. You have to admit there are times when you're the only car in that class out there and it can be quite dull. I have seen enough BMW club racing to know this. Even Scottnretro admitted that at one pt. The race eventually got to a transient state that it's just a TT/TA event. I joked with Scott that if the E46 M3 is the only HP car out there, don't call and tell me that the car won the race. Cos it didn't. It simply finished the race.

If that inequality represents expenses, then I agree as well. I like w2w. But I don't like the towing part, maintaining a truck and a trailer on the side. Just me.

However, if you go all out to build TT car that you have to tow to the race track, then that amount of energy could well be transferred to a w2w. My idea of a TT has always been an autoX for the non-parking lot setting. Grassroots level kind of motorsports if you may. Drive there, unload equipment, drive on the track, load up equipment, go home in 1 piece. But over the years, I have seen dedicated TA/TT cars. They are cool but kind of defeats the purpose IMO. This UTCC clearly showed that. Who the hell brings TWO race cars to compete in a TT environment? A bloke did and he hired pro drivers to drive for him. Preposterous!

There is also a difference between TA and TT. I outlined the differences here in one of blogs.

Btw, how'd the race go? No leaks I hope.
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Old 07-04-2008, 02:40 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Mr Paddle.Shift View Post
Doesn't CCA follow that vintage car racing rules too?

Now wrt to w2w > TT, I have my own opinions about that. If that inequality refers to fun, then I agree. Actually I would add an equality: w2w >= TT. You have to admit there are times when you're the only car in that class out there and it can be quite dull. I have seen enough BMW club racing to know this. Even Scottnretro admitted that at one pt. The race eventually got to a transient state that it's just a TT/TA event.

Btw, how'd the race go? No leaks I hope.
Yes they do, it's called 13/13.

It's true that at some times in some races you can be out there by yourself. But when you're not thats when the fun really comes. W2W adds a whole other dimension to the equation. W2W is about much more than just being able to run fast laps, and that's what I find fun. Until you do it you really have no idea how much more demanding it is than just being able to turn a fast lap.

The races went well, I finished 1st, 2nd, and 2nd. No leaks...
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Old 07-04-2008, 09:22 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by vaio76109 View Post
Regarding body damage; race with someone with 13/13 rules, that will greatly cut down on body damage. Nothing can eliminate the chance of it...

I'm not talking about grand-am or F1 here, I'm talking about club racing. 99% of the time it's a guy and his car. No 'team', maybe a friend that will hold a fire extinguisher during a pit stop if you're lucky. There certainly are not huge budgets in club racing...

The thing that scares me most about TT/TA is how under prepared the cars are safety wise.
Depends what you call huge. Any of our customers' racing budgets quadruple what is necessary to build and run a time attack car, and I'm not even going to compare it to what our own budget is like. Maybe you've got some cheap folk running down there with you, but up here its a money race for sure.
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Me too ... I would love to see some DTM cars out on the track kicking some JDM ass
We took our cars out to two rounds of Redline last year and definitely surprised some of those drift cars








Quote:
Originally Posted by vaio76109 View Post
Worse*

I don't know what HPDE's you've attended, but they sound awful. In a normal well run DE, drivers are organized according to their skill, lap timers aren't allowed(sans data acq systems), and point bys are required. Instructors are required or available, etc.

I'm talking about the NASA Race rules, not their TT Rules.
http://www.nasaproracing.com/rules/ccr.pdf
pgs 55-69 are the RACE rules
Pgs 43-47 are the TT rules(which are the SAME as the HPDE rules)

All I'm saying is that in general TT/TA cars are under prepared in the safety equipment area. For as fast as some of them are, more safety equipment should be required.
A Redline event includes a day and a half of regular HPDE and two sessions where its you and one car thirty seconds behind you. Street and Modified classes are designed for HPDE cars...why should they need full safety equipment?
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This is something I'd be interested in getting involved in...
I told j00
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Old 09-14-2008, 11:29 PM   #25
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T-bone at a time attack: http://forums.evolutionm.net/showpos...8&postcount=41
Car had a roll bar and driver had 3 broken ribs as i understand it.
Story: http://forums.evolutionm.net/showpos...6&postcount=53
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