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General BMW Model Discussion
All non E46 BMW model questions in here. Look below for E36, E90 and F30 specific forum. For additional model specific forums check out bimmerfest.com!

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Old 09-02-2008, 10:34 PM   #21
EDawg
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By average, do you mean an E46?
no. i meant the current e90.
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Old 09-03-2008, 12:29 AM   #22
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you probably haven't checked out the new tsx. the stock interior of the new tsx is more luxurious and filled with more amenties than your stock 3 series.

also, keep in mind that 2 years ago, bmw was still selling entry level 3 series with a 2.5L I6. sure an I6 may have more cylinders than the tsx's I4, but in terms of power and torque, a 2.5L I6 really isn't that much more powerful than a 2.4L I4. in fact, the tsx's I4 actually trumped the 325 in power when they both coexisted at 1 time.
I've seen the new TSX and read most of the reviews about it. A lot of the reviews seems mixed, and some say it's a step back from the previous generation in terms of styling and driving dynamics. Sure it has more stuff, but does that qualify it as being better?

As for the 2.5L I6, the TSX came came close or matched that engine (hp & torque), but where have they gone now? While the base E90 328I gets 3.0L 230 hp/ 200 lb-ft torque while the TSX 2.4L I4 has 201 hp/ 172 lb-ft torque.

To make things worse, the TSX has no other engine choices, the other entry-premium cars have larger more powerful engine options. Many in the 300+ hp range.

Don't get me wrong, I love the TSX, but unless it gets the same RDX turbo-4, it's going to stay a notch down in the minds of most shoppers. Especially when a similar priced high speced Honda Accord/Toyota Camry/Nissan Alima Etc. are all equipped with larger more powerful V6s, and forget about E90s, G35/37, IS, C-Class, A4, Etc.
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Old 09-03-2008, 03:11 AM   #23
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I've seen the new TSX and read most of the reviews about it. A lot of the reviews seems mixed, and some say it's a step back from the previous generation in terms of styling and driving dynamics. Sure it has more stuff, but does that qualify it as being better?

As for the 2.5L I6, the TSX came came close or matched that engine (hp & torque), but where have they gone now? While the base E90 328I gets 3.0L 230 hp/ 200 lb-ft torque while the TSX 2.4L I4 has 201 hp/ 172 lb-ft torque.

To make things worse, the TSX has no other engine choices, the other entry-premium cars have larger more powerful engine options. Many in the 300+ hp range.

Don't get me wrong, I love the TSX, but unless it gets the same RDX turbo-4, it's going to stay a notch down in the minds of most shoppers. Especially when a similar priced high speced Honda Accord/Toyota Camry/Nissan Alima Etc. are all equipped with larger more powerful V6s, and forget about E90s, G35/37, IS, C-Class, A4, Etc.

looks are always subjective, but if you sit the new and old side by side, i'm sure most would agree that the new makes the old look extremely dated (both inside and out) and small. the most controversial part of the tsx styling is the front grill, which i personally like, but i'm sure over time it will grow on people, much like audi's new grill. as for driving dynamics, its natural for cars to gravitate to a more refined and smoother driving dynamics from 1 generation to the next. this may be a bad thing to the driving enthusiasts out there, but not so much to the rest (which tends to be the majority). the evolution of the 3 series is a good example.


the success of the tsx revolves around the fact that the car is a luxury brand possessing pleasing design and loads of standard amenities sold at an affordable price and made by a company reknown for reliability. sure there are lots of other cars out there with more power, but engine output alone does not determine the car an individual chooses to buy. yes, the camry, accord, and altima V6s may have more power than the tsx, but despite that fact, the tsx has remained an excellent seller for acura, possibly because of the fact that the family car image of an accord, camry, and/or altima is a turnoff to these buyers or that they prefer to drive and own a car with a luxury brand name. also, there are other luxury brand cars such as the entry level IS250, 328i, etc. whose base prices may be similar to that of a tsx, but add in the options that give those cars the comprable amenities that are standard on the tsx, and the price differences will widen significantly. the consumers who are potential tsx buyers are not filthy rich. they generally want a luxury brand car with loads of amenties that make a luxury car "luxurious" at a price that they can afford. this puts the tsx in a very unique niche, cuz the tsx offers consumers a package that neither the accord/camry/altima or IS250/328i/etc. can. can the tsx benefit from more power?? definitely...but not at the expense of higher prices, which is what tends to happen with cars that offer larger and/or more powerful engines. if acura can put the RDX's 2.3L turbo engine into the tsx without increasing the price then they should definitely consider doing it, but chances are they can't or won't. as for the tsx not offering an engine option, it really doesn't make sense for them to do so. the base price difference of a tsx and tl is around $4K. if someone is willing to pay more for a tsx with a bigger and more powerful engine, they might as well just get a TL instead. the next generation TL will have more power, and if acura also increases the price of the next gen TL, then there may be room for a tsx with a 2.3L turbo option (and hopefully that is their strategy)...

Last edited by EDawg; 09-03-2008 at 03:27 AM.
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Old 09-03-2008, 05:25 AM   #24
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seems in todays market, they should be figuring out how to get better economy out of a mid-sized engine like the I6/V6 in any manufacturers market as the main-line push, and have the high powered engines for those who want to suck gas anyways at a premium. I'm not a big fan of the new camaro, the exterior is growing on me, the interior looks like poo to me, but the 3.6 V6 is putting down 300hp and 270ft/lbs torque through a 6 speed doing 28mpg on the highway. Not great mpg #'s, but fair....that might be the wifes first manual trans car for her "girl" car...hell, I'd use it as a commuter too potentially.

And as aftermarket companies have programmers out there that will run multiple programs for eco/tow/race/etc....why the hell doesn't the major manufacturers have selectable programming for the cars? Multiple displacement helps, but this can't be the end all to gas miser engines.
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Old 09-03-2008, 06:38 AM   #25
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It's already been said that the new 7 series will get the V8TT form the X6 instead of a V12, and that the next M5 will have a V8TT with 4.0L (still a rumor, but from a respectable German car magazine). That said, I don't see a 3 series getting a bigger or similar engine than that.

Now, If they would cut down on weight and size, then it would actually be an EVOLUTION of the classic 3 series (E30 etc), instead of the revolution they have been doing all along.
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Old 09-03-2008, 06:44 AM   #26
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maybe they start making v4 with turbo!!!
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Old 09-03-2008, 07:20 AM   #27
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so basically you want to see bmw produce motors that will be competing with that of honda and mitsubishi??
BMW isn't in the same category as either of those manufactures....In target population for sales, or car style.

I want them to make a low weight, high rpm ///M 4 cylinder.....because I know the advantage of having a light weight motor that can pump out just as much as the larger displacement 6 cyl. + motors.

less motor weight, better center of gravity, good hp #s.....and what does that = ?! better performing car

Toyota has the BEAMS Blacktop 3sge (basically very comparable to the M3 motor minus 2 cylinders and JDM)...207bhp @ 7600rpm and 4cylinders. in a sub 3,000lb car its great. Just because the motors are smaller, doesn't mean they are worse or "r1ce" whatever you ignorantly want to call it. bigger numbers from smaller motors = more efficiency.

think outside your anus

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Old 09-03-2008, 07:27 AM   #28
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i f i wanted a boosted 4 pot i wouldve bought a EVO
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Old 09-03-2008, 10:32 AM   #29
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I just got back from Italy, where I rented an e90 320d for 3 weeks... It drove suprisingly well... The 6 speed had plenty of pep on the highway, crusied nicely at about 200km/h, and handled great... A lil slower off the line for sure... But I got close to 40MPG out of it... And with a 90 Euro /tank fillup, that was well needed...

Oh, I saw more than a few 720d 's over there....
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Old 09-03-2008, 02:11 PM   #30
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there is nothing in the world like a stright 6.
the only thing sweeter is a V12, cause thats 2 straight 6s in one. i don twant nothing else in a BMW, unless its a V8.
fukit i dont like the new anti-DIY BMW engines anymore anyway, ill be going back in time for my BMWs
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Old 09-03-2008, 02:17 PM   #31
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Old 09-03-2008, 02:31 PM   #32
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ehhh.. sooner or later.. all this 300hp crap has to end..
I am over "fast" cars now.. my next car will be a much "slower" car (please don't quote me on that)
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Old 09-03-2008, 04:36 PM   #33
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there is nothing in the world like a stright 6.
the only thing sweeter is a V12, cause thats 2 straight 6s in one. i don twant nothing else in a BMW, unless its a V8.
fukit i dont like the new anti-DIY BMW engines anymore anyway, ill be going back in time for my BMWs
+1

I guess this wouldn't affect us.
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Old 09-03-2008, 05:28 PM   #34
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so basically you want to see bmw produce motors that will be competing with that of honda and mitsubishi??
last time i checked the evo8 or 9 had one of the best turbo motors ever and one of the most modable motors ever.
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