Another Gun Thread

Originally Posted by Rush4theYehO

Personally, I am not a fan of pocket carry. A little too close to my precious for comfort.

I would recommend getting a proper holster/belt and your gun will sit right along your hip. A proper holster will cover the trigger guard so you won't need to worry about snagging the trigger. ALWAYS carry with a round in the chamber

You dont live in Florida.

Pretty tough to carry a holster in 100*F heat at 90% humidity wearing a t shirt and shorts especially if you overweight.

If I feel that something is coming up, I can put my hand in my pocket, have my gun in my hand and then react. Opposed to pulling up my shirt, reaching for my gun, sliding it out of the holster, etc.

I would NEVER carry a round in the chamber including when I do use a holster.

To each their own.

Originally Posted by glockman9c

You dont live in Florida.

Pretty tough to carry a holster in 100*F heat at 90% humidity wearing a t shirt and shorts especially if you overweight.

If I feel that something is coming up, I can put my hand in my pocket, have my gun in my hand and then react. Opposed to pulling up my shirt, reaching for my gun, sliding it out of the holster, etc.

I would NEVER carry a round in the chamber including when I do use a holster.

To each their own.

I would NEVER carry a gun that didn't have a round in the holster. When I was an MP in the Army, we didn't have a round in the chamber. Cocking your slide/M9 9mm pistol was considered a level of use of force for just right before deadly force. Now, as a cop, I can't imagine not having a round in the chamber. I've drawn down on people and almost shot numerous people. Not having a round in the chamber sees assinine to me. I just can't fathom it.

Thats another question that is very important in your pistol choice, whether or not you will carry with it chambered. I can only imagine a few scenarios where I might need a concealed weapon, one of which would be a carjacking.

Imagine some dude catching you with your window down, pulls a knife, and says gimme your wallet. If you're carrying chambered (even with an external safety engaged), you can reach into your pocket and produce a weapon that can actually fire (disengaging the safety could be done unnoticed). Now if you would need both hands to chamber a round, pulling out your unchambered pistol is just for show.

Now if a perp sees you pull a glock out of your pocket, if he knows anything about glocks he can rather safely assume that you dont have a round chambered.

Originally Posted by Reedo302

I would NEVER carry a gun that didn't have a round in the holster. When I was an MP in the Army, we didn't have a round in the chamber. Cocking your slide/M9 9mm pistol was considered a level of use of force for just right before deadly force. Now, as a cop, I can't imagine not having a round in the chamber. I've drawn down on people and almost shot numerous people. Not having a round in the chamber sees assinine to me. I just can't fathom it.

You are a cop. I have pulled my weapon on two people in my life. Neither time I fired it. I would rather have the safety of having a gun without a round in it then to misfire it. The odds of needing to fire without racking are not even in the same ball park as it being fired by mistake.

The people that you had to draw on...did not back down? Not enough time to rack a slide? Did you not just pull them over or go to an area of a problem? That is not walking through Home Depot.

What about someone clocking you from behind and pulling it out and shooting you with it? Chances are if they pull that trigger and it doesnt work, they are not racking the slide a standing around trying to figure it out.

You are a cop, if you gun holster get seen, so does your badge. If my gun gets seen, 50/50 I am going to be hassled by the cops for an hour at bare minimum.

In addition, I should not ever be in a situation where I need to shoot somone without enough time to rack my slide. Chances are, I am dead anyway if that happens. Atleast it is not from my own bullet.

I understand where you are coming from, but its a little different being a 300lb non cop in 100* heat trying to carry something that hopefully will never be used.

Originally Posted by tim g

Thats another question that is very important in your pistol choice, whether or not you will carry with it chambered. I can only imagine a few scenarios where I might need a concealed weapon, one of which would be a carjacking.

Imagine some dude catching you with your window down, pulls a knife, and says gimme your wallet. If you're carrying chambered (even with an external safety engaged), you can reach into your pocket and produce a weapon that can actually fire (disengaging the safety could be done unnoticed). Now if you would need both hands to chamber a round, pulling out your unchambered pistol is just for show.

Now if a perp sees you pull a glock out of your pocket, if he knows anything about glocks he can rather safely assume that you dont have a round chambered.

You think if that I guy carjacking you with a knife is going to stand around and figure out what kind of hand gun you just pointed in his face and whether or not you have a round chambered?

Dont carry a gun.

PS - You can always chamber a round if driving through a bad neighborhood or getting gas at 3am. That is quite a bit different that having one chambered doing yard work or grocery shopping.

Which is another point all together. I would rather have an unchambered .380 in my pocket than no gun because it was too much trouble to put it on or deal with the size/weight or holster or because I was worried about it getting banged up building shelves or whatever.

Originally Posted by glockman9c

You are a cop. I have pulled my weapon on two people in my life. Neither time I fired it. I would rather have the safety of having a gun without a round in it then to misfire it. The odds of needing to fire without racking are not even in the same ball park as it being fired by mistake.

What about someone clocking you from behind and pulling it out and shooting you with it? Chances are if they pull that trigger and it doesnt work, they are not racking the slide a standing around trying to figure it out.

You are a cop, if you gun holster get seen, so does your badge. If my gun gets seen, 50/50 I am going to be hassled by the cops for an hour at bare minimum.

In addition, I should not ever be in a situation where I need to shoot somone without enough time to rack my slide. Chances are, I am dead anyway if that happens. Atleast it is not from my own bullet.

I understand where you are coming from, but its a little different being a 300lb non cop in 100* heat trying to carry something that hopefully will never be used.

I'm 5'9" and 230 and in the summer, it gets to 95% humidity. My Kahr PM9 comes in VERY handy...and there's always a round in the chamber.

If someone clocks me in the head, they'll be damn lucky. I have a pretty good level of situation awareness. I've busted people sneaking up on me many times. I developed it in the Army. It's a certain level of low-rent paranoia.

That said, if someone tries to take my gun, I DO have a level 2 holster. If they can get my gun out of my holster, I'll probably be unconscious and of it won't matter if there's a round in the chamber or not. If I am conscious, I can prevent being disarmed and fire back. If I am disarmed, I think I deserve to get shot.

You do have a point on the odds of a misfire vs the odds of being in a situation where the .5 seconds to chamber would be the difference.

But if someone were to clock you from behind, anyone with any firearm knowledge, he'd probably rack the slide and THEN try to shoot you, because that guarantees a round in the chamber unless you're carrying an empty pistol.

Again I think that your level of experience, your holster/carry style, and the pistol itself is a major factor in deciding whether or not you would be comfortable carrying chambered. We should have a poll for all members that carry, whether they carry chambered or not.

Originally Posted by glockman9c

You think if that guy carjacking you with a knife is going to stand around and figure out what kind of hand gun you just pointed in his face and whether or not you have a round chambered?

Dont carry a gun.

The situation where a perp can identify your weapon is a seperate one, obviously in the carjacking scenario he'd be outta there in a heartbeat.

In any case, I dont think you can advise me not to carry a gun because I might have thought a glock would be recognizable to a perp and he might have an idea that it wouldnt be chambered. That's kinda a prick thing to say...

Originally Posted by Reedo302

If someone clocks me in the head, they'll be damn lucky. I have a pretty good level of situation awareness. I've busted people sneaking up on me many times. I developed it in the Army. It's a certain level of low-rent paranoia.

The whole reason that .5 seconds to rack a slide should not matter.

Hey, you deal with the scum of the earth every day, I dont. I would rather have something than nothing. And I never think twice about it.

PS - Thanks for being a cop. It is under appriciated by most.

Originally Posted by tim g

The situation where a perp can identify your weapon is a seperate one, obviously in the carjacking scenario he'd be outta there in a heartbeat.

In any case, I dont think you can advise me not to carry a gun because I might have thought a glock would be recognizable to a perp and he might have an idea that it wouldnt be chambered. That's kinda a prick thing to say...

You're right. I get a little fired up. My bad.

Originally Posted by glockman9c

The whole reason that .5 seconds to rack a slide should not matter.

Hey, you deal with the scum of the earth every day, I dont. I would rather have something than nothing. And I never think twice about it.

PS - Thanks for being a cop. It is under appriciated by most.

You're only paranoid if they're NOT really after you...

Its cool, and I'm with you, Reedo deserves our thanks for putting himself on the line every day in the name of justice. Now to see how people in the poll respond...

Glockman .. you've said so many wrong/bad things I don't even know where to start ...

but if you are serious that you have drawn on people twice and not shot you are an idiot .. I hope you know that it is illegal to do that .. if you draw your gun and didn't shoot and got away with it you are a lucky bastard .. you NEVER just draw your gun to win an arguement or to scare someone off .. if you draw it better be because you plan on defending your life ...

anyone serious about firearm info please take a look at some of the gun forums and get some knowledge from people that actually know what they are talking about ...

www.thehighroad.org
www.glocktalk.com
www.1911forum.com

First off to each his own...

But a couple things to address. First, if you think the difference between drawing and firing a gun that is chambered, and drawing a gun, racking the slide, and then taking aim and then firing is only .5 seconds you are ludicrous. It's one thing to not want to carry cocked and locked but be realistic.

Another argument against carrying round in the chamber was fear of accidentally firing your gun after drawing it. If you are in a situation where you need to draw down, there should be no doubt as to whether you should or should not be firing. There is no situation where you should draw down but not be warranted in firing. A gun is not an intimidation piece for legal CC. Not saying you should auto fire after drawing, but if you "accidentally" fire after drawing it should be in a situation where that doesn't matter your life is in danger. Further, you should be proficient enough with your gun to where a misfire shouldn't occur. Practicing a proper draw and not putting your finger on the trigger until you are ready to fire will prevent that.

Next was someone sneaking up behind you and taking your gun...there is no reason for anyone to know you are carrying...non issue. plus if they over power you and do take your gun, it doesn't matter whether theres one in the chamber or not you are F'ed. That's why it's considered ok to draw on someone physically attacking you without a gun, because they could take your gun if they over power you, and you have a right to carry (this is in FL other states can and do differ).

I also saw mention of fear of a malfuntion carrying one in the chamber...I don't get the logic on this one...there is more of a chance of a malfunction racking the slide in the heat of the moment than when you already have a round chambered...in fact if you have a round already properly chambered it will go boom when you pull the trigger...guaranteed...you could theoretically have a malfunction on the second round, but you have that same risk by racking the slide and then firing a second round.

I lived in FL and CC'd almost 100% of the time I was not on campus. It's very easy to conceal a gun in comfortable clothes in the summer. It just requires shorts one size bigger, a proper gun belt, a proper holster, and a loose fitting shirt. I never liked pocket carrying anything larger than my keltec, and I ALWAYS used a proper pocket holster...I carried with one in the chamber but still I will never carry a handgun, loaded or not, without the trigger covered.

That said if you're not comfortable with it that's fine. It took me a while to get to a point where I could carry my 1911 with the hammer back and one in the pipe. But that's me. I see an unchambered gun as a very expensive hammer. But there is a school of training that teaches a smooth draw that includes racking the slide.

Originally Posted by NightWolfe

I hope you know that it is illegal to do that .. if you draw your gun and didn't shoot and got away with it you are a lucky bastard

So firing it makes it legal? If someone is coming up to you with a knife from 15 feet away, and you draw your weapon, and they stop advancing and drop their knife, you would shoot them anyway? You've never seen a cop draw his weapon and NOT fire it? I'm sure glockman isn't going around pulling his glocks out at the first guy that talks trash. I'm sure its only stop a POTENTIALLY life threatening situation from getting to the point that shots need to be fired.

Originally Posted by NightWolfe

Glockman .. you've said so many wrong/bad things I don't even know where to start ...

but if you are serious that you have drawn on people twice and not shot you are an idiot .. I hope you know that it is illegal to do that .. if you draw your gun and didn't shoot and got away with it you are a lucky bastard .. you NEVER just draw your gun to win an arguement or to scare someone off .. if you draw it better be because you plan on defending your life ...
anyone serious about firearm info please take a look at some of the gun forums and get some knowledge from people that actually know what they are talking about ...

www.thehighroad.org
www.glocktalk.com
www.1911forum.com

Plan? How does plan and shooting mean the same thing. Both times I drew I did PLAN on defending my life. Because I am NOT trigger happy, I am a criminal? Give me a break.

Thanks for your input. You are entitled to your opinion and so are the police who told me I was in the right in both occasions.

You do not have to shoot someone if you pull your gun.

I am not going to argue with you, but you are wrong.

Example. Guy walks into your back yard while you are painting your fence in the corner. He pulls a knife and says give me your car keys or I am going to cut your head off. He is 18 ft away. You are in a corner where two fences meet. You tell him to get out of your yard. He walks towards you yelling keys, now. You pull a gun a tell him to leave or you will shoot him. He leaves. The neighbors hear the argument and have already called the police. You are not going to jail.

Originally Posted by 3erdriver

There is no situation where you should draw down but not be warranted in firing.

Completely false. If you're walking down an alley and a couple big guys are walking up to you telling you to give them your wallet, I think you would be right to draw your weapon, but NOT fire unless they continue posing a threat. Or like I proposed earlier, someone is coming at you with a knife, but they are far enough away that you can draw and warn them before they are close enough to harm you.

Maybe in a situation like that, after the cops clean the guy off the pavement, you can convince them it was self-defense, but many of the carrying members here would rather NOT kill another human being. Just because you are justified to shoot doesn't mean it is the only option.

Originally Posted by tim g

Completely false. If you're walking down an alley and a couple big guys are walking up to you telling you to give them your wallet, I think you would be right to draw your weapon, but NOT fire unless they continue posing a threat. Or like I proposed earlier, someone is coming at you with a knife, but they are far enough away that you can draw and warn them before they are close enough to harm you.

Maybe in a situation like that, after the cops clean the guy off the pavement, you can convince them it was self-defense, but many of the carrying members here would rather NOT kill another human being. Just because you are justified to shoot doesn't mean it is the only option.

Keep in mind that 21ft is the REACTIONARY GAP. I can get to you with knife inside of 21ft faster than you can react, draw your pistol, and shoot.

Just some facts to pass along...

this thread got really interesting. i haven't considered the chambered/unchambered argument at all. thanks for opening up my eyes a bit. I guess I have even more research to do.

I have never carried before. for you guys that have, have you had to brandish your weapon? been spotted/hassled for carrying/etc?

Originally Posted by tim g

Completely false. If you're walking down an alley and a couple big guys are walking up to you telling you to give them your wallet, I think you would be right to draw your weapon, but NOT fire unless they continue posing a threat. Or like I proposed earlier, someone is coming at you with a knife, but they are far enough away that you can draw and warn them before they are close enough to harm you.

Maybe in a situation like that, after the cops clean the guy off the pavement, you can convince them it was self-defense, but many of the carrying members here would rather NOT kill another human being. Just because you are justified to shoot doesn't mean it is the only option.

In that situation you are warranted to fire. It may not be the most moral decision but you are warranted legally...someone is threatening your life. I would draw and not fire, thats why i said..."that doesn't mean you have to auto fire after drawing"