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Old 03-08-2009, 06:48 AM   #101
PEI330Ci
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loayo View Post
Awesome, thanks for your detailed response !

You seem very much a proponent of nitrous

Regards,
Loay Oweis
No problem.

Yes, I am a nitrous enthusiast.

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Originally Posted by BadBoostedBmwM3 View Post
Did you find that the head studs needed to be re-torqued?? And, forget what type of HG you're using BUT what is it?

And, how exactly did you wire the fuel pump relay to work off the DME??

And, the progress sounds good!
I'm using a standard thickness MLS gasket, not all of the head studs needed to be retorqued, I think on 3 of the 14 I was able to add about 1/8th of a turn before target torque was achieved.

Originally, I was using a dash switch to control the fuel pump for testing ect...I then transfered the wiring back onto the DME relay after the car was running. It's the same relay that is used for the stock fuel pump...

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Originally Posted by mcr_driver View Post
my god...the beast is alive hope you get everything sorted out soon must have moar vids asap !! congrats the road has been long for a lot of us who have been following you since my330i i can't wait to see you tracking her
Thanks.

Track sessions planned for as soon as the snow melts...which could be a while up here.

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Originally Posted by mkodama View Post
I think you should look into an in-car camera and mount if it has not already been purchased or planned on Adam.
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Old 03-08-2009, 07:32 AM   #102
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A little late, but here it is:



The graph has been re-scaled to hide the power numbers at my request. Quite simply, I'm still working on the engine and don't want to give #s that don't represent the full potential of this build.

The green line is a run with the air filter removed from last week before I re-installed the valvetrain. The AFR output on my LM-1 was setup wrong, so while it shows to be lean, it's not. (Wrong voltage scale) It's actually a bit on the rich side, but that was to be expected for street/track use. As you can see between 3-4k rpm, the torque curve is a little whacky which alerted me to the potential of wrong camshaft installation. Of note, look how smooth the AFR plot is. This is a custom tune for my engine combination, which is absolutely phenominal for a "remote tune" in my opinion.

The blue line is from yesterday with the air filter installed, the cams re-timed correctly, and no tuning with the Moristech piggyback. As you can see, it's a little bit rich from 5500 - 7600 RPM.

The red line is from yesterday with the air filter installed, and a slight adjustment to the fuel curve using the Moristech Interceptor.

Something I really need to stress is that I used a different technique on the dyno yesterday than last week. Yesterday, I ran the engine at much higher temps while tuning than last week, which represents "real world" situations a lot better. Last week I ran with the water temp starting at 120 degrees, and oil at about 100 degrees. Yesterday, I started pulls with the water at 180 degrees, and the oil around 190 degrees. Heck at one point I even tried running the oil temps up to 220 degrees to see how the engine responded. The DME compensates for the higher temps by adding fuel, which is exactly what you want. The main goal for yesterday was to see if the car would respond favourably to the Moristech Interceptor, which it did, and to learn to use my new ECU scanner/logger. (Great product) As a nice side effect, the engine recieved some more "break in" which I think it pretty much finished as far as seating the rings is concerned.

We also tried adjusting timing with the Moristech Interceptor, and the engine responded favourably to that as well. First we pulled 5 degrees out, and the power curve predictably dropped. More importantly, the engine pulled cleanly without any hickups or funny sounds...it was just less powerfull. Next, we returned to the base timing and did another reference pull. Then, we added 4 degrees of timing and power dropped. I should add that prior to, and during this process, I was watching and logging the 2 knock sensor outputs with my new scan tool. There was an increase in "noise" at higher RPM on all pulls, but all the pulls looked the same to the knock sensors.

Now here's the really amazing thing about this engine so far: It's making more power everywhere than my previous engine, but it's down on compression. How far down? By my estimates I'm at least 50psi down per cylinder, and some other people think it's more. The good news is that I think we've narrowed down what the problem is, the bad news is that I think it's going to be "tricky" to fix.

If the problem with the engine is what I think it is, I will be sharing my findings in full here. I think this is something that could affect a lot of people doing this type of engine build, time will tell.

The next step unfortunately is to remove the engine from the car to start another tear down. I'll probably start that on Monday once I have a chance to take a little breather from all this fun.
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Old 03-08-2009, 07:53 AM   #103
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With everything going on, I haven't been posting pictures, so I thought I'd play a little catch up.

Here's what I cleaned out of the in-line oil filter last week when I drained the first fill of break-in oil:



It's mostly lint from shop towels and rags, and of course small little specs of metal from all the machine work.

Here I'm draining the fuel cell dry of gas for a "fresh" fill:



It's a pretty slick setup. Attach the drain hose, turn the fuel pump on, and wait for the jerry-can to fill then slap the master shut-off switch. I pulled about 10 gallons from the cell which took about 20 minutes including time to dump it into my truck.

Engine tear-down to re-time the cams:









After the engine was up and running again, I put a new set of plugs in and ran the car for about 1/2hr in the parking lot to get a good fuel reading. Checking the plugs after the run:



We've got a problem:



I couldn't see that on the previous set of plugs because they were almost fouled from oil on the break in. (Cylinders had a lot of oil in them) With a new set of plugs, you can clearly see that one cylinder bank is running lean, and the other one is running rich. The was the cause of my idle and most of my part throttle issues. I had quite simply plugged the Oxygen sensors in backwards. (Left to right, right to left) If I had been driving the car on the street, I probably would have picked up on this right away. (As I've made this mistake before) However because I didn't get much of a chance to drive the car under load at part throttle, I never picked up on my mistake. Hopefully this info will help others....

As an interesting side note, I didn't pick this up clearly with the AFR, because the O2 sensor was displaying an average of the 2 cylinder banks. To be honest, if I had been logging the O2 with my laptop I would have seen the huge AFR swings between combustion pulses, but I didn't have that setup until yesterday. Live and learn.
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Old 03-08-2009, 07:59 AM   #104
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And here's the car ready to go to the dyno on Friday afternoon. Love the hood:



I had my rotissery mounting plates modified to help with dyno duty. By removing the rear bumper, and mounting these plates, I've got an easy and super secure way to tie down the car on the dyno:







Overkill, but it works well.
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Old 03-08-2009, 05:27 PM   #105
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Great Update. As always can't wait to see more. And I think the hood looks sexy lol.
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Old 03-08-2009, 05:43 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by pei330ci View Post
No problem.

Yes, I am a nitrous enthusiast.



I'm using a standard thickness MLS gasket, not all of the head studs needed to be retorqued, I think on 3 of the 14 I was able to add about 1/8th of a turn before target torque was achieved.

Originally, I was using a dash switch to control the fuel pump for testing ect...I then transfered the wiring back onto the DME relay after the car was running. It's the same relay that is used for the stock fuel pump...



Thanks.

Track sessions planned for as soon as the snow melts...which could be a while up here.



Chasecam
I was just wondering. I didn't that many would need to be re-torqued! Anyways, I can't wait to see more updates! AND, I NEED To take the time to wire my fuel pump the same!
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Old 03-08-2009, 07:11 PM   #107
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Great Update. As always can't wait to see more. And I think the hood looks sexy lol.
Thanks...the hood is growing on me.

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Originally Posted by BadBoostedBmwM3 View Post
I was just wondering. I didn't that many would need to be re-torqued! Anyways, I can't wait to see more updates! AND, I NEED To take the time to wire my fuel pump the same!
Tying into the DME with the fuel pump is great. I no longer worry about having the fuel pump on...or left running. The DME primes the pump before starting, then shuts it off until the engine is started. If the engine stops, it turns of the fuel pump.

The 3 mentioned probably had more to do with my initial install than anything else. They were probably at 95% of specified torque...

Engine and transmission is getting pulled tomorrow for the next stage of engine developement.
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Old 03-09-2009, 02:45 AM   #108
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The more you disclose about your build, the more complicated the systems become...I've noticed that's it's not so much the mechanical, but the electrical which is astronomical. When I do my build it's obviously going to be strictly mechanical...from the build-cars I've been around, the best way to begin is a full mechanical build before you get into the electrical stuff. I'm definitely going to run the OEM DME and ECU to begin with...
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Old 03-09-2009, 07:01 AM   #109
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You seem to be pretty quick with getting the cams out. Did you buy/make a special tool, or have you become proficient with the least resistance method?
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Old 03-09-2009, 08:26 AM   #110
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Pretty sure he owns the special BMW tool. I'm almost positive i've seen a picture of it in the engine build thread.
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Old 03-10-2009, 10:25 PM   #111
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The more you disclose about your build, the more complicated the systems become...I've noticed that's it's not so much the mechanical, but the electrical which is astronomical. When I do my build it's obviously going to be strictly mechanical...from the build-cars I've been around, the best way to begin is a full mechanical build before you get into the electrical stuff. I'm definitely going to run the OEM DME and ECU to begin with...
Unless you are building an all out race car, I would keep all of the factory wiring and electronic systems in-tact. The weight difference isn't worth the headaches. The wiring changes I've made have been to remove the wires for devices I no longer had installed in the car, and to add wiring for features I added. What made my situation complex, is that I added a lot of features, and I chose to relocate the OEM Dash, DME, EWS, and General Module.

I agree, stick with mechanical to start.

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Originally Posted by aggieE46 View Post
You seem to be pretty quick with getting the cams out. Did you buy/make a special tool, or have you become proficient with the least resistance method?
You don't need any "special" tools to remove the VANOS and cams.

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Pretty sure he owns the special BMW tool. I'm almost positive i've seen a picture of it in the engine build thread.
There are a number of special tools that I'd recommend for re-installing the M54 valvetrain...I'll make a thread about this at a later time.

Today's update:

Engine is out of the car, cylinder head is off for more work to be done to it.

I also found a problem with part of the valvetrain that I'll be replacing with new parts.

Tomorrow I start work modifying the transmission tunel for more safety equipment to fit properly, and I've also started a new "convienence" project with the engine block that I think is pretty cool. Pics tomorrow night.
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Old 03-10-2009, 10:31 PM   #112
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I also found a problem with part of the valvetrain that I'll be replacing with new parts.
Was this a result of running the car since bringing it to life, something that was overlooked during the build, or something where you just changed your mind on parts?
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Old 03-11-2009, 12:21 AM   #113
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Pics tomorrow night.
Can't Wait!!!
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Old 03-11-2009, 09:32 AM   #114
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Was this a result of running the car since bringing it to life, something that was overlooked during the build, or something where you just changed your mind on parts?
I F'd up a while ago...it came back to haunt me.

I put too much stress on a bearing ledge stud last fall while trying to remove the valve locks. We ended up building a special tool to do the job, but the stud had already been overstressed from my previous attempt. On installing the cam trays, I could only get about 80% torque on this one stud, so I loctite'd the nut on and hoped for the best. After the last dyno session, I pulled the valve cover off and found that the stud had pulled loose, the nut was free-spinning, and the camshaft cap had cracked in half. You can't buy individual camshaft caps from BMW, so I ended up having to order the whole cam tray. (The reason is that BMW line bores the complete trays together to assure that the tolerances are perfect)

The lesson of this story is that problems won't get better if you just ignore them.
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Old 03-11-2009, 09:52 AM   #115
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Hmm, I guess I should get these open wounds looked at....

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The lesson of this story is that problems won't get better if you just ignore them.
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Old 03-14-2009, 07:29 AM   #116
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The PC that I use to process images from my camera (Raw NEF format) has been down for a couple of days, so no picture updates yet.

Work has been progressing on the car though, which I'll show pictures of shortly.

I've decided to continue wiring in some new components, so the electrical system is getting another re-vamp as well. (Need to upgrade the fuse system)

The "problem" with the valvetrain turned out to be something other than what I had speculated. I had contacted a number of well known race teams about my sepculation, and all of them had not had this problem before. I was relieved to find on tear-down that I had a machining issue on the head, versus an assembly clearance issue which would have been very difficult to solve.

What have I learned from this? There were some basic tests that I should have done along the way to check that everything was OK, but I was in a rush so I missed to do these checks. You could say my enthusiasm got the better of me. In this case, taking your time saves time. The following is the "truth" about my cylinder head.

Back in late 2006 I ordered a "new" head that was supposed to be ported, have new valves, special springs, and a kick-butt valve job. What I recieved was a head with no port work, re-machined stock valves, upgraded springs, and a horrible valve job. The valve job was so bad that you could literally see through the valve seat with the naked eye, and of course a test with alchohol found all the valves to be leaking badly. I contacted the vendor with my concerns and recieved such a load of doubletalk in return, that I decided to simply sever my ties and walk away.

I enlisted the help of some local shops to "fix" my head and get what I had originally paid for. The local shops were extremely helpful, and it ended up costing me a fraction of what I was originally charged to make the head right. (Or so I thought...) Somewhere along the way there was a miscomunication and only the intake side of the head had the valve seats fixed. I never checked the valve work because of my confidence in the machine shop, and immediately started assembling the engine when the head returned from machining.

When I did get the engine started, I spent 2 weeks chasing my own tail on a poor idle/small throttle input response problem. On top of this, the engine was "down" power everywhere and I couldn't explain why.

If I had done a leakage test with alchohol on all the valves before assembling the engine, I would have found the problem.

If I had done a leak-down test prior to starting the engine, I would have found the problem.

If I had done a compression test before and after engine "break-in" I would have found that there was minimal change in the compression, and that the problem was somewhere other than "ring seal".

It all comes down to methodically checking work before moving on to the next step....not being in a hurry...and I was certainly in a hurry. Chalk one up for excitement and "learning".

So the head right now is on it's way back from the machinist's with all the valves sealing properly. I'm waiting on a helicoil kit to re-install the camshaft ledge stud that I pulled out, and I have a brand new camshaft ledge assembly sitting at the shop. (Not cheap) Sometime next week I'll start re-assembling the engine again, and you can be sure I'll be taking my time and checking things as I go.

As an interesting footnote, I've taken advantage of having everything torn apart to make some nice additions to both the engine and chassis. It ended up being a bonus in disguise having the engine out before the start of the race season...
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Old 03-14-2009, 07:47 AM   #117
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This is simply EPIC.
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Old 03-14-2009, 08:05 AM   #118
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Man, that's rough news to find out. At least you know what the problem is. Guess you're going to be down a while for machine work, eh? That stinks. I'm loving the updates and progress!
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Old 03-14-2009, 02:04 PM   #119
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Man, that's rough news to find out. At least you know what the problem is. Guess you're going to be down a while for machine work, eh? That stinks. I'm loving the updates and progress!


Sucks to here about the problems. I hope all the machining and work gets done soon and doesn't cost too much.
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Old 03-14-2009, 06:32 PM   #120
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Man, that's rough news to find out. At least you know what the problem is. Guess you're going to be down a while for machine work, eh? That stinks. I'm loving the updates and progress!
Um...I wouldn't exactly say that I'm "down".

The engine is apart right now, but I'm pretty busy with other unrelated projects on the car. It's not the best case scenario having to tear down the engine like this, but I will say that overall this experience has been very valuable. I'll have the head back on Monday...they finished machine work on Friday.

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Sucks to here about the problems. I hope all the machining and work gets done soon and doesn't cost too much.
The machine work is actually really reasonable, it's the shipping, gaskets, and other consumables that make this tear down expensive.

I won't say specifically why yet, but tearing the engine down has been very very beneficial for my long term goals. I've taken advantage of having everything apart to make some great additions to the car.
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