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Go Back   E46Fanatics > Tuning & Tech > Driveline, Engine & DME Tuning

Driveline, Engine & DME Tuning
Talk about driveline improvements, NA tuning and DME tuning your E46 BMW here. This includes diffs, intakes, exhausts, chips, software and OBD tuning.

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Old 03-28-2009, 12:23 AM   #1
jhriss
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Cooling System Upgrades Non M3

So I have a BMW 330Xi 2002, 9 psi SC by ESS, water alc injection 6% nitromethane, iridium plugs, 93 Octane tune blah blah.

I wanted to get some cooling system upgrades, but I wanted to run this by some of the pros here or people who have experience with these mods.

1. I think this sounds like a great mod for more power due to less parasitic loss and better cooling, it's the stewart water pump.

http://www.turnermotorsport.com/html...ID=STE%2030330

2. Low temp thermostat for E46 non M. The only thing is I dont' think it will work, cause it says no DME hook up. WTF? check it

http://www.turnermotorsport.com/html...ORT-THERMOSTAT

Anyone know of another low temp thermo for 330 ? I mean gosh, for my other rides, it's like $30 for lower temp performance thermostat? BMW E46 is like $480 when M3 is like $100 or $50, what the heck.

3. Oil Cooler? M3's come with this right? What about a 330 ? Is it worth it?

4. Radiator or fan upgrade? Anyone know of anything worth while and compatible?


Thanks guys, I'm sure this well be helpful for man people.

Thanks,

Jason
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Old 03-28-2009, 01:05 AM   #2
S54DR
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thermostae 80ish from aa with housing
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Old 03-28-2009, 02:10 AM   #3
jhriss
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Originally Posted by Aktiv3 View Post
thermostae 80ish from aa with housing
Yo dude, AA does not have anything for non M in this department, could you post a direct url / link please.

M3 is easy, E46 330I or 330Xi man, M54 and M54TU engine, not the S50 S52.
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Old 03-28-2009, 10:32 AM   #4
TxZHP04
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Is your car overheating? What oil and coolant temps are you experiencing? Do you track your car? The Stewart pump is a solid, more reliable and much more expensive upgrade from stock. Anything else is a complete waste of time and money unless you have a measurable need to do something different.
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Old 03-28-2009, 12:11 PM   #5
jhriss
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Really, so you would say that these upgrades are pretty much a waste of money and time? I guess it is two fold that I was trying to conquer some stuff here. One keep my engine running cooler and safer, and 2 gain some more power and punch. I know that ESS Hans and Asbjorn have said do not do underdrive pulleys cause the water pump needs to be pumping to cool the engine, but if I underdrive it a little bit like with UUC pulley kit, and get the stewart water/coolant pump then I should be doubly good.

The UUC pulley kit will kill some parasitic loss, and so will the stewart water pump, but it will also pump 20% more coolant per revolution, so I should actually gain a bit of cooling, will killing parasitic loss from both the water pump pulley, steering pump pulley, and the pump itself is less resistance and more efficient.


As for the low temp thermostat, Aktiv3 says to call AA and speak with Jean and he'll get me set up with a low temp thermo and housing (not sure metal or plastic). How would this low temp thermo not help. On m Jeep SRT8 with 6.1 Liter Hemi I added it for like $30, it is 180 degree thermo (could be 170, but could throw lights etc.). Anyhow with basic mods on the Jeep it does 0-60 in 4.4 sec. I've done the thermo mod on all my american cars, do German ones like Benz and BMW not need them ??


ps. why does Hans at ESS say that a supercharged car cannot have underdrive pulleys on it?
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Old 03-28-2009, 02:00 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by jhriss View Post
Really, so you would say that these upgrades are pretty much a waste of money and time?
Quote:
Originally Posted by TxZHP04 View Post
Anything else is a complete waste of time and money unless you have a measurable need to do something different.
Yes, that's exactly what I said. No need to try to solve problems that don't exist when you may potentially create other problems.

You're already SC'd, why so desperate to gain another 5 hp? I would highly encourage you to listen to Hans and AJ's recommendations. If you need more performance there are better options.

Regarding the e46 non-M thermostat, here's what the Bentley has to say:
Quote:
On all models except M3 models, an electrically heated thermostat regulates the engine coolant temperature and is controlled by the DME control module. The heated thermostat allows the engine to be operated at higher temperatures at idle and part throttle. Having the ability to control the engine coolant temperature electronically results in improved emissions and performance.
This is why the BMW Motorsport thermostat sold by Turner can't be used with the stock DME, you'll get a CEL and likely experience driveability issues since the engine won't be operating at the temps it is tuned for.
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Old 03-28-2009, 02:54 PM   #7
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Dude, that is awesome man. I get it. Wow!!! So what about the underdrive pulley's and the water pump upgrade by stewart?
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Old 03-28-2009, 03:15 PM   #8
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I upgraded to the Stewart pump for its more robust design. Any other benefits are merely a bonus. I wouldn't under drive the water pump (esp on a SC'd car), alternator, a/c, or crank pulleys under any circumstances (regardless of what anyone else has deemed safe). That leaves the power steering pump at which point it's hardly worth the hassle of trying to find the right size belt to work with that pulley and the SC. And without specs on the pulleys, it's foolish to assume that the efficiency of the Stewart pump would offset the cooling losses resulting from under driving the water pump.
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Old 03-28-2009, 05:12 PM   #9
jhriss
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So the only thing I should do is the Stewart pump for more cooling mainly, and bit less parasitic loss as a mere bonus. So pretty much doing the UUC pulleys, which can be found at http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/ under bmw parts, then engine performance, then click technical details. I guess yeah, the ratio might not work out and the belt could be really tricky to measure.

So I guess I'll just do the pump then.

Thanks, unless you say otherwise TxZHP04, you one smart guy, I really appreciate all your feed back, you the man!
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Old 03-28-2009, 05:13 PM   #10
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Try this:
1. Buy a brand new stock radiator and replace it. While you are at it, clean out the AC condenser with a hose (wash through it backwards to get all of the fins clean as can be).
2. Buy a new stock thermostat
3. Add some Redline Water Wetter to the coolant.
4. Use the Stewart Water Pump with a stock pulley
5. Look into adding an oil cooler. There are many different options be getting the oil temps down is pulling out heat from the engine even if it's not from the cooling system
Note: While you are at it, you might as well change the upper and lower radiator hoses.

For me, I use the stock system with the Stewart pump with a stock pulley. For the oil cooling, I run the BMW Motorsport Oil Filter housing and a Setrab oil cooler mounted behind the radiator. Mounting the oil cooler behind the radiator is not the ideal location but it's amazing how the oil temps are reduced by around 40 degrees F. On top of that, the water temps don't skyrocket when we come in on a pit stop (after at least 1hr of running the crap out of the car). There are some other options out there on an oil cooler and I suggest using something that is made to bolt on.

The reason for replacing the radiator, is that after a few years, they are not as efficient as new. Since a new radiator is not too expensive, it's a great way to get the best as you can out of the stock system. The same goes for the thermostat. It's cheap and easy to change. As for me, I go through three radiators a year because they get plugged with all sorts of sand and pebbles from all over the US.
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Old 03-28-2009, 05:46 PM   #11
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So you think this is a good way to go? http://www.turnermotorsport.com/html...ID=11537509227

How much is involved to install? I'll do this water pump and new coolant all at once I guess.
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Old 03-28-2009, 05:52 PM   #12
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I agree 100% with the cooling system maintenance recommendations. As for the oil cooler, it will be hard to determine its value without knowledge of baseline oil temps and operating conditions.
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Old 03-28-2009, 05:58 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by jhriss View Post
So you think this is a good way to go? http://www.turnermotorsport.com/html...ID=11537509227

How much is involved to install? I'll do this water pump and new coolant all at once I guess.
If you're replacing one part of the cooling system, might as well do them all (unless they've been recently replaced). Go ahead and do hoses, radiator, expansion tank, thermostat, etc and a complete flush while your at it. It's pretty basic maintenance with lots of DIYs posted online. Just make sure you follow instructions and thoroughly bleed the system.
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Old 03-28-2009, 06:01 PM   #14
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+1 for the Stewart WP / OEM pullies. My OEM pump after 40k was falling apart. A failed water pump is a risk I will never take, specially with the hot weather and the TS2
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Old 03-28-2009, 09:04 PM   #15
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Do stock M3's come with oil coolers? With an Xi and an SC and intercooler, do you think I even have room to fit and oil cooler anywhere?

Plus I was wondering with an oil cooler, do you have to then use more oil? As in more than 6 quarts? And does it cause more resistance with an oil cooler from all the extra paths that it must flow thus making it harder on the lifters with more pressure needed etc and slow stuff down?

I will do the water pump and new stock OEM thermostat replacement for sure!!

About the radiator and all the other parts? Is that really necessary? Can't I just have it all cleaned up up so all the fins/channels in the radiator are clean, I don't think it is damaged at all? There are no moving parts on the radiator, expansion tank etc. I do understand new hoses though, that is a given.


Cheers,

Jason
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Old 03-28-2009, 10:12 PM   #16
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But there are plastic parts which crack and leak with age....
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Old 03-28-2009, 10:37 PM   #17
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Oh, one other thing. I use Mobil 1 full synthetic 0W-40 ? That cool, any recommendations? any good additives worth while?


OH, and just for info, read this on water wetter by redline? Not so much! Although a degree or two is cooler, but marginal. It is really for if you ran only water.

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/red...%C2%AE-review/
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Old 03-29-2009, 02:53 PM   #18
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"Plus I was wondering with an oil cooler, do you have to then use more oil? As in more than 6 quarts?"

It will take more oil. The thing is, you'd have to remove the cooler and lines to get all of the oil out for an oil change. On the other hand, your car will take the exact same amount of oil the next oil change after you installed the cooler because people don't normally take the cooler and lines off during an oil change. I know I sure don't


"And does it cause more resistance with an oil cooler from all the extra paths that it must flow thus making it harder on the lifters with more pressure needed etc and slow stuff down?"

I thought I've heard it all but that's a new one. The only time I had the lifters fail was when someone drove my car for 117 seconds without oil pressure. The real concern after that was the big huge hole in the block that appeared at 118 seconds.
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Old 03-29-2009, 07:06 PM   #19
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117 seconds with no oil pressure! Lifters going out, Yikes!!!! Ouch!!!! K, nuff said, got it, thanks!
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Old 03-29-2009, 07:54 PM   #20
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That was with ELF Excellum 10W50. Now it called Total Quartz 10W50.
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