E46 BMW Social Directory E46 FAQ 3-Series Discussion Forums BMW Photo Gallery BMW 3-Series Technical Information E46 Fanatics - The Ultimate BMW Resource BMW Vendors General E46 Forum The Tire Rack's Tire Wheel Forum Forced Induction Forum The Off-Topic The E46 BMW Showroom For Sale, For Trade or Wanting to Buy

Welcome to the E46Fanatics forums. E46Fanatics is the premiere website for BMW 3 series owners around the world with interactive forums, a geographical enthusiast directory, photo galleries, and technical information for BMW enthusiasts.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

Go Back   E46Fanatics > E46 BMW > General E46 Forum

General E46 Forum
This is the place to get answers, opinions and everything you need related to your E46 (sedan, coupe, convertible and wagon) BMW!

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 04-12-2009, 07:25 PM   #41
beingdevious
Apple Jews
 
beingdevious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Drunk onthe Beach.. Official 4ngiefest.com Techie Go to: 4ngiefest.com/donate Needs: to leave the computer Status: ///Pantless
Posts: 9,702
My Ride: 2001 325i Sedan
Send a message via AIM to beingdevious Send a message via Skype™ to beingdevious
no, the dual mass OEM flywheel CANNOT be turned/resurfaced.




again, less unsprung weight, means quicker power. the actual output will not be changed, just when you get it.
its like when changing the differential. your power does not change, you just get it quicker.
__________________
[IMG]http://************/ogaeq6[/IMG]
Question for you:
Are boobs and hands polarly charged, thus causing the inevitable joining of the two? If so are some breasts simply charged backwards?

On a scale from 0 to 24...wait, 3 to 24, where 6 is the lowest and 12 is the highest, how freaking high re you right now?

She's got you high, and you don't even know yet.
beingdevious is offline  
Old 04-12-2009, 07:27 PM   #42
beingdevious
Apple Jews
 
beingdevious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Drunk onthe Beach.. Official 4ngiefest.com Techie Go to: 4ngiefest.com/donate Needs: to leave the computer Status: ///Pantless
Posts: 9,702
My Ride: 2001 325i Sedan
Send a message via AIM to beingdevious Send a message via Skype™ to beingdevious
thank you jeffro


i try not to quote sponsor websites because i dont want to be biased. i am talking based on experience. my car revs quicker, engages quicker and tighter, and even though i upgraded to staggered wheels, and i have more rubber on the ground, i can burn them quicker, and longer.
__________________
[IMG]http://************/ogaeq6[/IMG]
Question for you:
Are boobs and hands polarly charged, thus causing the inevitable joining of the two? If so are some breasts simply charged backwards?

On a scale from 0 to 24...wait, 3 to 24, where 6 is the lowest and 12 is the highest, how freaking high re you right now?

She's got you high, and you don't even know yet.
beingdevious is offline  
Old 04-12-2009, 07:30 PM   #43
Transporter99
Registered User
 
Transporter99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: SoCal
Posts: 2,424
My Ride: Audi A5 3.2/6MT
I'm at 156K and still going strong on my clutch. No slippage. Got the O-rings on the VANOS replaces and she's lively once again!

I'll replace it anyway at years end, as all my manual cars before have just quit at random.
__________________
328i ZSP/ ZPP/ ZCW - Sold

_________________________________
'99 DINAN 328i - Sold
'93 Honda Civic Si - Sold
Transporter99 is offline  
Old 04-12-2009, 07:32 PM   #44
GoingNuts
Just Nuts
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: London
Posts: 7,253
My Ride: 2004 330Ci
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sevenscars View Post
It takes MORE energy to move an heavy object as opposed to light one. No Sh&% once in movement its gonna have more momentum -which required more energy/fuel to get moving in the first place - a point I was making.

If Im wrong ... .I will go with EXTRA heavyweight flywheel next time. Who sells those by the way?
You cannot deny a light weight flywheel at 5000rpm will have lower angular momentum (aka torque) than a heavier flywheel at the same rpm. When the clutch engages, there's less momentum transferred to the drive train by the light flywheel. Light flywheel loses torque. It is true.

Last edited by GoingNuts; 04-12-2009 at 07:37 PM.
GoingNuts is offline  
Old 04-12-2009, 07:37 PM   #45
beingdevious
Apple Jews
 
beingdevious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Drunk onthe Beach.. Official 4ngiefest.com Techie Go to: 4ngiefest.com/donate Needs: to leave the computer Status: ///Pantless
Posts: 9,702
My Ride: 2001 325i Sedan
Send a message via AIM to beingdevious Send a message via Skype™ to beingdevious
you cannot deny that the flywheel is merely a moving disc. it does not create, or lose torque. it only transfers it.
__________________
[IMG]http://************/ogaeq6[/IMG]
Question for you:
Are boobs and hands polarly charged, thus causing the inevitable joining of the two? If so are some breasts simply charged backwards?

On a scale from 0 to 24...wait, 3 to 24, where 6 is the lowest and 12 is the highest, how freaking high re you right now?

She's got you high, and you don't even know yet.
beingdevious is offline  
Old 04-12-2009, 07:43 PM   #46
GoingNuts
Just Nuts
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: London
Posts: 7,253
My Ride: 2004 330Ci
Quote:
Originally Posted by beingdevious View Post
you cannot deny that the flywheel is merely a moving disc. it does not create, or lose torque. it only transfers it.
If you start with lower toque, there's less to transfer, unless you can show us a magic trick to make a low torque flywheel transfer more torque than it had. The only way to increase the torque is increasing rpm and that means more fuel use.

Last edited by GoingNuts; 04-12-2009 at 07:46 PM.
GoingNuts is offline  
Old 04-12-2009, 07:47 PM   #47
beingdevious
Apple Jews
 
beingdevious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Drunk onthe Beach.. Official 4ngiefest.com Techie Go to: 4ngiefest.com/donate Needs: to leave the computer Status: ///Pantless
Posts: 9,702
My Ride: 2001 325i Sedan
Send a message via AIM to beingdevious Send a message via Skype™ to beingdevious
the flywheel doesnt make torque! you do not lose torque in the mass of the flywheel. the only physical way to lose power is by slipping.
you are not starting with lower torque. you are starting with the same amount you had with the OEM flywheel. the engine output is the exact same.

slipping will cause friction, and thus heat. heat is the loss of energy. IF your clutch grips, then the transfer is complete and the engine output is translated to the pressureplate/transmission.

i swear, im talking to a wall.
__________________
[IMG]http://************/ogaeq6[/IMG]
Question for you:
Are boobs and hands polarly charged, thus causing the inevitable joining of the two? If so are some breasts simply charged backwards?

On a scale from 0 to 24...wait, 3 to 24, where 6 is the lowest and 12 is the highest, how freaking high re you right now?

She's got you high, and you don't even know yet.
beingdevious is offline  
Old 04-12-2009, 07:47 PM   #48
jeffro3000
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 2,812
My Ride: 2000 328i
Quote:
Originally Posted by beingdevious View Post
i swear, im talking to a wall.
jeffro3000 is offline  
Old 04-12-2009, 07:51 PM   #49
beingdevious
Apple Jews
 
beingdevious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Drunk onthe Beach.. Official 4ngiefest.com Techie Go to: 4ngiefest.com/donate Needs: to leave the computer Status: ///Pantless
Posts: 9,702
My Ride: 2001 325i Sedan
Send a message via AIM to beingdevious Send a message via Skype™ to beingdevious
i can gurantee you that i will put the SAME torque to the transmission as i did before. without more fuel consumption.. BECAUSE the only difference is the millisecond that i reach 4k rpm and shift.

instead of reaching X torque at 0.002 seconds, i am reaching X torque at 0.001 seconds. the output is NOT affected.
(not real world examples, just numbers)

the only way i could have higher fuel consumption is if i were to redline the engine every time i shift.
if anything, i have better fuel consumption because i dropped 19.6 lbs. the engine has to work less to get to X rpm.
__________________
[IMG]http://************/ogaeq6[/IMG]
Question for you:
Are boobs and hands polarly charged, thus causing the inevitable joining of the two? If so are some breasts simply charged backwards?

On a scale from 0 to 24...wait, 3 to 24, where 6 is the lowest and 12 is the highest, how freaking high re you right now?

She's got you high, and you don't even know yet.
beingdevious is offline  
Old 04-12-2009, 07:51 PM   #50
GoingNuts
Just Nuts
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: London
Posts: 7,253
My Ride: 2004 330Ci
Quote:
Originally Posted by beingdevious View Post
the flywheel doesnt make torque! you do not lose torque in the mass of the flywheel. the only physical way to lose power is by slipping.
you are not starting with lower torque. you are starting with the same amount you had with the OEM flywheel. the engine output is the exact same.

slipping will cause friction, and thus heat. heat is the loss of energy. IF your clutch grips, then the transfer is complete and the engine output is translated to the pressureplate/transmission.

i swear, im talking to a wall.
Let's do some simple kindergarten physics before we get confused.

Momentum = mass x velocity
Torque = anugular momentum

Is it clear now where the weight, ie mass, of the flywheel plays a part in the resulting torque ?

Last edited by GoingNuts; 04-12-2009 at 07:55 PM.
GoingNuts is offline  
Old 04-12-2009, 07:54 PM   #51
jeffro3000
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 2,812
My Ride: 2000 328i
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoingNuts View Post
Lets do some simple kindergarten physics before we get confused.

Momentum = mass x velocity
Torque = anugular momentum

Is it clear now where the weight, ie mass, of the flywheel plays a part in the resulting torque ?
We?

The only person confused here is you.

did you read the article i quoted? do i need to post an even more dumbed-down version for you?


(Had to peek and see what he was saying )
jeffro3000 is offline  
Old 04-12-2009, 07:55 PM   #52
beingdevious
Apple Jews
 
beingdevious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Drunk onthe Beach.. Official 4ngiefest.com Techie Go to: 4ngiefest.com/donate Needs: to leave the computer Status: ///Pantless
Posts: 9,702
My Ride: 2001 325i Sedan
Send a message via AIM to beingdevious Send a message via Skype™ to beingdevious
ok, i understand your stance. i have from the beginning. but your logic is skewed.

yes, the flywheel stores momentum/mass
yes, the flywheel transfers that mass
no, the flywheel does not affect output
__________________
[IMG]http://************/ogaeq6[/IMG]
Question for you:
Are boobs and hands polarly charged, thus causing the inevitable joining of the two? If so are some breasts simply charged backwards?

On a scale from 0 to 24...wait, 3 to 24, where 6 is the lowest and 12 is the highest, how freaking high re you right now?

She's got you high, and you don't even know yet.
beingdevious is offline  
Old 04-12-2009, 07:57 PM   #53
jeffro3000
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 2,812
My Ride: 2000 328i
i know it's from a sponsor, but i think it gets the point across.

jeffro3000 is offline  
Old 04-12-2009, 07:58 PM   #54
GoingNuts
Just Nuts
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: London
Posts: 7,253
My Ride: 2004 330Ci
Quote:
Originally Posted by beingdevious View Post
ok, i understand your stance. i have from the beginning. but your logic is skewed.

yes, the flywheel stores momentum/mass
yes, the flywheel transfers that mass
no, the flywheel does not affect output
The clutch is a torque transfer device. If you start with less torque, there will be less torque at the wheels. So the flywheel has everything to do with the torque output.
GoingNuts is offline  
Old 04-12-2009, 08:01 PM   #55
beingdevious
Apple Jews
 
beingdevious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Drunk onthe Beach.. Official 4ngiefest.com Techie Go to: 4ngiefest.com/donate Needs: to leave the computer Status: ///Pantless
Posts: 9,702
My Ride: 2001 325i Sedan
Send a message via AIM to beingdevious Send a message via Skype™ to beingdevious
how, HOW is the flywheel affecting the engines output of torque. please, in what universe are you quoting these physics?



you are starting with the exact same torque, with an OEM flywheel, a lightweight, or a ****ing paper plate. the engine output is the same.
you are not starting with less torque. you are only transferring it sooner. please stop. im actually laughing so hard now that my dogs are barking.
__________________
[IMG]http://************/ogaeq6[/IMG]
Question for you:
Are boobs and hands polarly charged, thus causing the inevitable joining of the two? If so are some breasts simply charged backwards?

On a scale from 0 to 24...wait, 3 to 24, where 6 is the lowest and 12 is the highest, how freaking high re you right now?

She's got you high, and you don't even know yet.
beingdevious is offline  
Old 04-12-2009, 08:02 PM   #56
jeffro3000
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 2,812
My Ride: 2000 328i
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoingNuts View Post
The clutch is a torque transfer device. If you start with less torque, there will be less torque at the wheels. So the flywheel has everything to do with the torque output.
The flywheel only stores torque produced by the engine. Weight of the flywheel affects how much it stores. Heavier flywheel means more momentum.
however, this is only before full engagement.
after engagement, the heavier flywheel will not accelerate as quickly, resulting in slower overall acceleration of the car. you fell for the false torque effect. see graph.

get it now?

Last edited by jeffro3000; 04-12-2009 at 08:08 PM.
jeffro3000 is offline  
Old 04-12-2009, 08:04 PM   #57
sonspot
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Windsor, GTA, canada
Posts: 778
My Ride: 330I Spot/Prem/cold
the only question is will they hold up when you supercharge or turbo your car,.. why would i ask that? energy tran,..... trannn.. tran.. whats the word..
__________________
sonspot is offline  
Old 04-12-2009, 08:06 PM   #58
jorg323
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: NOVA/Washington D.C.
Posts: 881
My Ride: 1999 323i
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoingNuts View Post
More mass means greater momentum. That's an undeniable fact. Guess what greater momentum means ? It means the car can maintain its speed with minimal force input. When momentum is reduced, more force is required, and this translates to greater energy input.

Now, defend your position reduced momentum does not require increased force input to retain the same speed.
More mass means greater inertia, too, and wouldn't that mean it would take greater force (and therefore more energy) to initially overcome that inertia and bring the flywheel to a specific revolutionary speed and torque output compared to a flywheel with less mass, and wouldn't this extra energy input somewhat negate any energy savings allowed by the greater constant momentum of a more massive flywheel?
__________________


18" Black ASA AR1 Rims | Yokohama Advan S4 Tires | Bilstein Sport Shocks | Eibach Pro-Kit Springs | Brembo Slotted Rotors | 6000k Xenons | 6000k P. Chrom. Angel Eyes | Eagle Eye LED Tail Lights | K&N FIPK CAI | M-Tech II Front Bumper | 35% Tint | Clear Corners | Matte Black Grille
jorg323 is offline  
Old 04-12-2009, 08:07 PM   #59
beingdevious
Apple Jews
 
beingdevious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Drunk onthe Beach.. Official 4ngiefest.com Techie Go to: 4ngiefest.com/donate Needs: to leave the computer Status: ///Pantless
Posts: 9,702
My Ride: 2001 325i Sedan
Send a message via AIM to beingdevious Send a message via Skype™ to beingdevious
Quote:
Originally Posted by sonspot View Post
the only question is will they hold up when you supercharge or turbo your car,.. why would i ask that? energy tran,..... trannn.. tran.. whats the word..
yes, the clutch is going to be the bearer of burden. its the one that needs to hold up to the amount of output, as its the physical component between the flywheel and the pressure plate.
__________________
[IMG]http://************/ogaeq6[/IMG]
Question for you:
Are boobs and hands polarly charged, thus causing the inevitable joining of the two? If so are some breasts simply charged backwards?

On a scale from 0 to 24...wait, 3 to 24, where 6 is the lowest and 12 is the highest, how freaking high re you right now?

She's got you high, and you don't even know yet.
beingdevious is offline  
Old 04-12-2009, 08:07 PM   #60
sonspot
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Windsor, GTA, canada
Posts: 778
My Ride: 330I Spot/Prem/cold
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krystian_E46 View Post
i replaced my clutch at 109k a month after i got my car, it was time for a new clutch because it fell apart (the springs broke)
because you were tailgating and reared your friend?,..

am messing with you
__________________
sonspot is offline  
Closed Thread

Tags
flywheel, goingnuts

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Censor is ON





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:14 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
(c) 1999 - 2011 performanceIX Inc - privacy policy - terms of use