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General E46 Forum
This is the place to get answers, opinions and everything you need related to your E46 (sedan, coupe, convertible and wagon) BMW!

View Poll Results: Who knows best about bimmers?
Americans know better that's right 17 34.69%
No Europeans know better 15 30.61%
Neither, Hulk Hogan knows best! 17 34.69%
Voters: 49. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 04-16-2009, 09:00 AM   #41
Fooljam
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I guess you can believe right when you hang around in an American car enthusiast forum
Don't get your point mate?

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Not *every* American is a DIY car nut, ya know
Sure of course. Just making generalities here.
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Old 04-16-2009, 09:02 AM   #42
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You know that you are from Colorado

It sure looks like I am when I look outside. Just up the road:

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Old 04-16-2009, 09:03 AM   #43
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It sure looks like I am when I look outside. Just up the road:

Oh man
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Old 04-16-2009, 09:07 AM   #44
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To make it Beemer related:



Uh oh I forgot to cover up my license plates!! I hope no one steals my cars' identity.

At that altitude my poor car had approximately 36% less power.

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Old 04-16-2009, 09:16 AM   #45
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I don't think the average american can afford to own a BMW and does not even know what it is.
Bimmers are cheaper in the US alright, but they are still expensive cars to own and service it is still rare to see bimmers in the US, unless you live in Orange County and the likes.
Most Americans can't afford a BMW, so most people that can't afford the financing will lease to avoid the big payments and enjoy free scheduled maintenance.

They are anything but rare where I live. I enjoy some BMW eye candy daily.

I will do anything that doesn't require a lift or special tools and my local BMW dealer will get paid to do the rest. It's not a cheap car to properly maintain, but it's worth it.

Those that buy a BMW and decide to modify them usually are pretty picky and knowledgable. But this is probably anywhere in the world.
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Old 04-16-2009, 09:24 AM   #46
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Yeah well I exactly said the countrary. Never meant to say americains have less knowledge and taste since I think this is the opposite. this is the point of this thread.

The thing that amazes me is the fact you take your bimmer upside down. Engine, trans, diff, everything. That helps to understand how the car works.
Culture is different that's correct. EU peps don't take their car upside down.
Well I do, but that's a rare exeption I believe :-)
this car is so sexy
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Old 04-16-2009, 09:31 AM   #47
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this car is so sexy
Which one?
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Old 04-16-2009, 09:53 AM   #48
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When you guys in the US build a BMW that is faster then this one and still road legal you let me know

http://www.loaded.se/sd_page/25/1/index.php?

The M3 CSL "Loaded" is built in the EU and is road legal in Germany.

EU ftw
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Old 04-16-2009, 11:06 AM   #49
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I think it has alot to do with the availability of the car. In the US, BMW is seen as an upscale brand where as in Europe it is much more prominent in vehicles available. BMW is to EU what Ford or CHevy is to the US with an assortment of vehicles from relatively inexpensive to very expensive loaded vehicles. In the US, we only get the premium line of BMW's and no base line.
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Old 04-16-2009, 11:16 AM   #50
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I think it has alot to do with the availability of the car. In the US, BMW is seen as an upscale brand where as in Europe it is much more prominent in vehicles available. BMW is to EU what Ford or CHevy is to the US with an assortment of vehicles from relatively inexpensive to very expensive loaded vehicles. In the US, we only get the premium line of BMW's and no base line.
Then tell me why you don't get the BMW Individual system, or you didn't get the CSL


I agree that your base line is way cheaper though. A brand spanking new M3 costs 55k USD base price, whereas we pay 66K EUR. Do the math.
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Old 04-16-2009, 11:25 AM   #51
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or you didn't get the CSL
Did not get the road homologation?
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Old 04-16-2009, 11:28 AM   #52
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Did not get the road homologation?
You don't think BMW could have worked it out if they wanted to?
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Old 04-16-2009, 11:42 AM   #53
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You don't think BMW could have worked it out if they wanted to?
Sure but that is not the point they never intended to sell the CSL in the US.
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Old 04-16-2009, 01:10 PM   #54
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I think there is couple of reasons:
1. In US the BMW is something special - that way it attracts enthusiasts
2. It's huge country with large population where everyone speaks the same language - the knowledge in Europe is scattered into smaller regional forums
3. as noted before - rules for modding not as strict as in EU
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Old 04-16-2009, 01:24 PM   #55
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Then tell me why you don't get the BMW Individual system, or you didn't get the CSL


I agree that your base line is way cheaper though. A brand spanking new M3 costs 55k USD base price, whereas we pay 66K EUR. Do the math.
That's Germany. Base price for an M3 in the Netherlands is about EUR 90k. Do the math
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Old 04-16-2009, 01:32 PM   #56
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Sure but that is not the point they never intended to sell the CSL in the US.
You're missing the point. I was referring to SIM/// saying that the US only get the premium BMW's.

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I think there is couple of reasons:
1. In US the BMW is something special - that way it attracts enthusiasts
2. It's huge country with large population where everyone speaks the same language - the knowledge in Europe is scattered into smaller regional forums
3. as noted before - rules for modding not as strict as in EU


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That's Germany. Base price for an M3 in the Netherlands is about EUR 90k. Do the math
There ya go. I'd go as far as saying that we have the greater enthusiasts, if fewer, if we are willing to dish out that kind of cash for a stock car.

I think Scandinavian countries take the cake though, when it comes to car pricing. Used E46 M3's for over 100K and all.





Oh and: It may be old, but people should check out Jeremy Clarkson's book "Motorworld" and maybe watch the episodes. It's pretty interesting to see how different countries and cultures relate to the car.
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Old 04-16-2009, 02:16 PM   #57
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Part of the reason that BMW's are cheaper in the US is that the US-spec cars have a lower level of trim and equipment than the UK. Ergo, my 2000 330d sport has features not found on US models, e.g. black headliners, etc. Not much on their own, but all of these bits add up to a saving for US car owners. US car buyers are simply less demanding when it comes to standard spec on new cars - otherwise car manufacturers would offer these items.

There is certainly something in the argument that US owners try and "Euro" their Beamers - hence the CSL clone thing you've got going on over there. This in itself means that US owners research their cars more than Euro owners whose stock cars are already more to their taste.

In your quest to Euro-your-rides you naturally develop a taste for the finer things in life that us Euro's take for granted and voila, you end up paying more for an equivalent car than you would if you could buy a Euro spec car off the lot - it's a conspiracy, I tell you!
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Old 04-16-2009, 02:31 PM   #58
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Part of the reason that BMW's are cheaper in the US is that the US-spec cars have a lower level of trim and equipment than the UK. Ergo, my 2000 330d sport has features not found on US models, e.g. black headliners, etc. Not much on their own, but all of these bits add up to a saving for US car owners. US car buyers are simply less demanding when it comes to standard spec on new cars - otherwise car manufacturers would offer these items.
No disrespect intended, but do you seriously think that a black headliner option and clear corners are the reason behind the 100%-200% price difference? European cars are more expensive for one simple reason: tax.

Yes, there are differences between Euro-spec and US-spec models but these are not simply because they have a 'lower' trim level. US-spec cars e.g. are usually prewired for nav and cellphones. Euro-spec cars are not.

I doubt that someone in the Netherlands driving a stripped down 318i with cloth seats, manual rear windows, and 15" steel rims will agree that US spec cars are always of lower trim level.
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Old 04-16-2009, 02:41 PM   #59
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No disrespect intended, but do you seriously think that a black headliner option and clear corners are the reason behind the 100%-200% price difference? European cars are more expensive for one simple reason: tax.

Yes, there are differences between Euro-spec and US-spec models but these are not simply because they have a 'lower' trim level. US-spec cars e.g. are usually prewired for nav and cellphones. Euro-spec cars are not.

I doubt that someone in the Netherlands driving a stripped down 318i with cloth seats, manual rear windows, and 15" steel rims will agree that US spec cars are always of lower trim level.
No offence at all man. I'm obviously looking at this from a UK perspective, where we don't have the obscene taxation on new car sales that some of continental Europe have (especially the Nordic countries). In the UK sales tax (called VAT) is 15% - that's a national rate. As I understand it, states in the US can set their own sales tax levies

Taking your tax point on board, what I'm trying to get over then, is that the lower specs coupled to lower US sales taxes as well as a less demanding car buying public make it easier to have lower pricing in the US than in Europe.

On an unrelated matter, are US BMW drivers offered the Individual programme for cars built at Spartanburg?
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Last edited by Goughie; 04-16-2009 at 02:43 PM.
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Old 04-16-2009, 02:51 PM   #60
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Taking your tax point on board, what I'm trying to get over then, is that the lower specs coupled to lower US sales taxes as well as a less demanding car buying public make it easier to have lower pricing in the US than in Europe.

On an unrelated matter, are US BMW drivers offered the Individual programme for cars built at Spartanburg?

Yeah I always wondered about the remaining bit as well. But like I said, I wouldn't say US cars are lower spec, just different. And whether US buyers are less demanding... not so sure either.

On the other hand you could argue that there is fiercer competition in the performance car market in the US. Whereas people here usually buy a BMW or Audi to serve as some silly status symbol, I've always told myself that Americans appreciate them as luxury/performance cars, as the manufacturer intended them to be. Probably also explains why you can't buy a 4 cilinder BMW in the States, or e.g. cloth seats.

Who can tell?
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