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Gun Talk
Are you a gun fanatic as well? If so, you'll want to talk to other owners about what you own in this forum.

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Old 04-22-2009, 03:49 PM   #21
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Old 04-22-2009, 03:53 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kubica View Post
Fail.

Citizens shouldn't be allowed to carry firearms. Just hunters and police.

The fact that some guns are legal and some are not blows holes in the ammendment arguement. The government obviously has the right to tell you which guns you can "bear" and which you cannot "bear". It's just a matter of time until the population in the U.S. is educated enough to distinguish the best way forward, which is strict gun control.

We are going to get your guns, eventually.
We..? and who is this we you are talking about?

Oh and...



You wouldn't get within 50 yards of my house


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Old 04-22-2009, 04:00 PM   #23
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Here are some counter arguments for ya.

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Originally Posted by NJ///M View Post
So far my two arguments are that an armed citizen can react quicker in a situation than a police officer can (having to receive a 911 call and get to the incident).
Perhaps, although, the citizen will likely not have the training that a police officer has. As a result, many, many things could go wrong. This is why we have police depts.

Quote:
My other argument is that people would be less likely to commit crimes if they knew an average citizen could be carrying a weapon.
Slippery slope here. The above seems to assume that the criminals wouldn't be armed. lol. Criminals are among those that are "average citizens." As such, they would be as well armed as another citizen.

You could respond by saying that the criminals would be outnumbered by citizens, but this assumes all citizens present as the commission of a crime would be inclined to intervene. I don't think this would be the reality.
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Old 04-22-2009, 04:02 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kubica View Post
Fail.

Citizens shouldn't be allowed to carry firearms. Just hunters and police.

The fact that some guns are legal and some are not blows holes in the ammendment arguement. The government obviously has the right to tell you which guns you can "bear" and which you cannot "bear". It's just a matter of time until the population in the U.S. is educated enough to distinguish the best way forward, which is strict gun control.

We are going to get your guns, eventually.
I really don't know where to start, or what to start with... But here goes...


Those of you who have commited a crime that is deemed dangerous to the public are not allowed to carry. The government states that weapons that are fully automatic are illegal, and thus making them out of reach of regular citizens.

The sad part is, your argument about being educated is trumped by your inability to be educated on the topic. I have not killed one person with my gun. You stated in an earlier post that guns are dangerous...

I left mine on the desk for over an hour, even turned my back on it for a few minutes. It never tried to hurt anyone.

I think that focusing on the second amendment and the rights given to us, is a good start. I also think the argument that citizens that are armed can help to stop crime, or stop a situation from escalating. But that is me. Others like the idea of waiting for a cop to show up. Either is a reasonable response to a situation. It just depends on what you prefer, and how you are educated on the subject.

Further more, the idea of "taking" my gun is hilarious. Come and get it.
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Old 04-22-2009, 04:29 PM   #25
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FYI, anyone looking for Pmags?

http://www.cactustactical.com/osc/ma...-c-65_481.html

Not the self leveling follower, but they have them in stock and you can always add that follower later.
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Old 04-22-2009, 04:37 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kubica View Post
Fail.

Citizens shouldn't be allowed to carry firearms. Just hunters and police.

The fact that some guns are legal and some are not blows holes in the ammendment arguement. The government obviously has the right to tell you which guns you can "bear" and which you cannot "bear". It's just a matter of time until the population in the U.S. is educated enough to distinguish the best way forward, which is strict gun control.

We are going to get your guns, eventually.
No, you won't.

And when the Revolution comes, you liberals will be bringing knives to a gun fight.

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Old 04-22-2009, 04:40 PM   #27
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Seriously though, as a point for your second argument, I remember reading that a country was going to invade us back in the day, until they read our constitution. They figured that everyone would have a gun and they would be outnumbered so the plan never went through. I can't remember the details...
It was Japan in WW2.

For your counter argument, watch 60 minutes from 2 weeks ago, scary stuff.


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That has always made me wonder. Do you not care about his stance and policies on firearm ownership and freedom?

Hope this doesn't threadjack, lol
There are far more important things in life than firearm ownership.

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Old 04-22-2009, 05:05 PM   #28
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Perhaps, although, the citizen will likely not have the training that a police officer has. As a result, many, many things could go wrong. This is why we have police depts.
Sure, many things COULD go wrong, but having to face a criminal unarmed and without a weapon is NOT one of them. As the saying goes: "When seconds count, the police are only minutes away." If someone, possibly armed, breaks into my house in the night, I would rather face them with a gun in my hand (however imperfectly) than just with my d!ck in my hand. How about you?

You are also ingoring the fact that the criminal, now facing an ARMED potential victim, might just pick the path of least resistance and beat a hasty retreat in order to look for a more easily victimized UNARMED person (someone like you, perhaps).

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Originally Posted by ghorn View Post
Slippery slope here. The above seems to assume that the criminals wouldn't be armed. lol. Criminals are among those that are "average citizens." As such, they would be as well armed as another citizen.

You could respond by saying that the criminals would be outnumbered by citizens, but this assumes all citizens present as the commission of a crime would be inclined to intervene. I don't think this would be the reality.
Sorry, logic FAIL here.

By definition, a criminal who obtains a firearm illegally is NOT an "average citizen." An "average citizen", while he or she may have multiple firearms, does not go around using those weapons to victimize others.

Second, it is absolutely NOT assumed that the criminals are unarmed. To the contrary: it is assumed that the criminal is ALWAYS armed. And criminals are usually BETTER armed than "average citizens" - unless, of course - the "average citizen" has a legal weapon and a legal permit to carry. Just in case you missed it: this is precisely what is being advocated here.

Third, as mentioned above, since criminals (like all predators) go for the weakest victim possible, just the fact that the would-be victim HAS a weapon is good enough reason for the criminal to look elsewhere. Do some research on what is NOT reported in the media: the number of crimes PREVENTED each year because someone (either the victim or a bystander) had a legal firearm.

Fourth, just ask your local criminals currently in jail what they are most afraid of when they're breaking into people's houses, or carjacking them, or raping women, or robbing them at gunpoint? You'll find that these criminals aren't really afraid of the police, because they'll be long gone by the time the police show up. You will find that the one thing a MAJORITY of these criminals are most afraid of is that their would-be victim is not defenseless and at their mercy, but quite the opposite: their would-be victim is armed and willing to use deadly force to keep from being victimized.
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Old 04-22-2009, 05:09 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Allure View Post
It was Japan in WW2.

For your counter argument, watch 60 minutes from 2 weeks ago, scary stuff.




There are far more important things in life than firearm ownership.
So sounds like you're ok with them being taken away or restricted. Guess that is your choice.
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Old 04-22-2009, 05:19 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Kubica View Post
Fail.

Citizens shouldn't be allowed to carry firearms. Just hunters and police.

The fact that some guns are legal and some are not blows holes in the ammendment arguement. The government obviously has the right to tell you which guns you can "bear" and which you cannot "bear". It's just a matter of time until the population in the U.S. is educated enough to distinguish the best way forward, which is strict gun control.

We are going to get your guns, eventually.
What do you mean, we?
Are you part of the police force?

Oh, and you as a citizen, come and try to get on my property.
I'll shoot off your limbs, then probably finish you off with a headshot.

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Old 04-22-2009, 05:24 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Kubica View Post
We are going to get your guns, eventually.
You must know what you're doing when you post these kind of remarks.

So sure, I'll oblige.

If you want the guns, you may get them- but you're more likely to get the bullets first .
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Old 04-22-2009, 05:29 PM   #32
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What do you mean, we?
Are you part of the police force?

Oh, and you as a citizen, come and try to get on my property.
I'll shoot off your limbs, then probably finish you off with a headshot.
Easy tiger. Thinking like that will get you put in jail. The majority of states only allow the use of force (with MANY stipulations) to "stop the threat", and nothing else. Shooting to maim is unlawful.

If the meat wagon shows up and your intruder has his limbs systematically removed and his body looks like swiss cheese- don't be surprised when things don't go your way in our court system.

You should look up your state's laws.
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Old 04-22-2009, 06:02 PM   #33
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Whoa, can you say long winded response? FYI: I wasn't attempting to present my view as gospel; rather, I was simply offering the OP w/counter arguments--which he has asked for, BTW. But, I knew the pro-gun freaks would be all in a tizzy

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoveMyBMW View Post
Sure, many things COULD go wrong, but having to face a criminal unarmed and without a weapon is NOT one of them. As the saying goes: "When seconds count, the police are only minutes away." If someone, possibly armed, breaks into my house in the night, I would rather face them with a gun in my hand (however imperfectly) than just with my d!ck in my hand. How about you?
I mean, if it's on a bumper sticker, it must be true! You're taking a situational hypothetical and attempt to draw a broad conclusion from it. Take your hypothetical and let's say that the person breaking in is actually their son that had snuck out to meet his buddies. Then, the Dad kills his son by accident b/c he thought it was an intruder. Just note that there are other factors to consider.

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Originally Posted by LoveMyBMW View Post
Sorry, logic FAIL here.

By definition, a criminal who obtains a firearm illegally is NOT an "average citizen." An "average citizen", while he or she may have multiple firearms, does not go around using those weapons to victimize others.
lol. Who said anything about the criminal obtaining the gun illegally? Reading comprehension FAIL.

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Originally Posted by LoveMyBMW View Post
Second, it is absolutely NOT assumed that the criminals are unarmed. To the contrary: it is assumed that the criminal is ALWAYS armed. And criminals are usually BETTER armed than "average citizens" - unless, of course - the "average citizen" has a legal weapon and a legal permit to carry. Just in case you missed it: this is precisely what is being advocated here.

Third, as mentioned above, since criminals (like all predators) go for the weakest victim possible, just the fact that the would-be victim HAS a weapon is good enough reason for the criminal to look elsewhere. Do some research on what is NOT reported in the media: the number of crimes PREVENTED each year because someone (either the victim or a bystander) had a legal firearm.
Feel free to cite some stats of the above. You really seem to think the wild west approach would be best. Me, not so much.

Quote:
Fourth, just ask your local criminals currently in jail what they are most afraid of when they're breaking into people's houses, or carjacking them, or raping women, or robbing them at gunpoint? You'll find that these criminals aren't really afraid of the police, because they'll be long gone by the time the police show up. You will find that the one thing a MAJORITY of these criminals are most afraid of is that their would-be victim is not defenseless and at their mercy, but quite the opposite: their would-be victim is armed and willing to use deadly force to keep from being victimized.
Do you spend a lot of time @ your local jail? That's an odd place to chill. While I will certainly agree that a criminal wouldn't want to face a (prospective) victim who's armed, you're ignoring EVERY OTHER FACTOR that comes into play when every Tom, Dick, and Harry is toting around a gun. But, that's ok.

I don't have a problem with ppl owning guns. I do think there need to be certain parameters set up regarding background checks--especially when you're talking about guns shows

EDIT:

It's rather pathetic that so many seem to view this issue in black and white terms. You're either a gun loving American, or a bleeding heart liberal that wants to take ppl's guns away
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Old 04-22-2009, 06:42 PM   #34
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There is a law... somewhere I'm sorry I forget the name. Stating that citizens shall be as well armed as the authorities. Forgive me for not remembering the reference. Any help?
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Old 04-22-2009, 06:46 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Kubica View Post
Fail.

Citizens shouldn't be allowed to carry firearms. Just hunters and police.

The fact that some guns are legal and some are not blows holes in the ammendment arguement. The government obviously has the right to tell you which guns you can "bear" and which you cannot "bear". It's just a matter of time until the population in the U.S. is educated enough to distinguish the best way forward, which is strict gun control.

We are going to get your guns, eventually.
Molon labe, come and get them, libtard.


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Old 04-22-2009, 09:29 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by shockin330i View Post
We..? and who is this we you are talking about?

Oh and...



You wouldn't get within 50 yards of my house


kthanxbi

You gonna shoot down missles too? LOL... j/p dude.

We have nice gun laws in VT... it would be a shame to see them go away.
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Old 04-22-2009, 09:41 PM   #37
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It's our RIGHT

/thread

No need to write anymore than that... You'll just be trying to justify your already given right and convince people with a lot of extra words. You don't need flashy examples or situational reasoning... It's our right
Yea, should be our exclusive right... but it depends on State law as well...
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Old 04-22-2009, 09:43 PM   #38
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Old 04-22-2009, 09:44 PM   #39
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Old 04-22-2009, 10:06 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by 2K5 325i View Post
Easy tiger. Thinking like that will get you put in jail. The majority of states only allow the use of force (with MANY stipulations) to "stop the threat", and nothing else. Shooting to maim is unlawful.

If the meat wagon shows up and your intruder has his limbs systematically removed and his body looks like swiss cheese- don't be surprised when things don't go your way in our court system.

You should look up your state's laws.
-Chris
Dead men can't testify in court
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:drool:
i'd cosign loans for that ho
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Thanks dude. I knew she was a keeper when she blew me during a game of cod. I didn't do too well that game
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