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Gun Talk
Are you a gun fanatic as well? If so, you'll want to talk to other owners about what you own in this forum.

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Old 06-20-2009, 09:40 PM   #1
Coldintake
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Gun Fanatics... AR-15 or Socom II?

I have the option of picking up an AR-15 that's in stock for around 1500 (a .223 model) or a Socom II .308 for about 2200 that's not in stock. I don't really mind the wait, but what I want to know is what the differences are? I have very little info on guns so please explain your answer.

Edit.. and is Springfield armory a good brand?

Thanks
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Old 06-20-2009, 09:51 PM   #2
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AR will be more customizable in the long run, IMO. You can change out the upper for different purposes (you can have a 24", 20", 16" or 14.5" barrel). Don't really know much about the SOCOM II, but I believe that's a really good rifle, from a really good company, Springfield Armory.

Visit calguns.net and you will find tons of info on those rifles, you'll also find alot of rifles for sale in the LA area.

EDIT: .308 ammo will considerably be more expensive than .223 or 5.56 ammo, so if you want to shoot a lot, that should be considered also. .308 will be around $.60-.70 per round while .223 or 5.56 will be around $.38-.45/rd.
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Old 06-20-2009, 09:53 PM   #3
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AR will be more customizable in the long run, IMO. You can change out the upper for different purposes (you can have a 24", 20", 16" or 14.5" barrel). Don't really know much about the SOCOM II, but I believe that's a really good rifle, from a really good company, Springfield Armory.

Visit calguns.net and you will find tons of info on those rifles, you'll also find alot of rifles for sale in the LA area.

Thanks for quick and great reply.. I'll maybe add a lens on it.. but as far as modding it, I just want something that can shoot well and fun at the range.

It would be great if someone could post up some pros and cons of each.. I don't really mind cost as it's an one time purchase... and I don't think i'll go to the range every month or anything like that.. so ammo price isn't a HUGE factor.
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Old 06-20-2009, 09:55 PM   #4
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Yeah, just visit and post on calguns.net and you'll find a lot of rifle info on there. It's also good to know the laws regarding OLL's (the lower receiver for the AR).
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Old 06-20-2009, 10:40 PM   #5
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i ride round wit guns the size of lil bow wow
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Old 06-20-2009, 10:49 PM   #6
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If you are in Cali. You will not be able to have a removable mag on the AR (Unless you use a lock, legal "rifle' type grip" etc). Regardless of how you configure it, it will be "neutered" to comply with the absurd California "assault weapons" laws.

Socom should be legal with removable mags. And you could get a bad ass JAE stock for it and maintain legal removable mags.

http://www.jae100.com/

And I second www.calguns.net forums!
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Old 06-21-2009, 03:39 AM   #7
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Old 06-21-2009, 06:08 AM   #8
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Old 06-21-2009, 08:43 AM   #9
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If budget is not a concern, I'd get the Socom. .308 is a fun round to shoot, provided you can afford to shoot it a lot. Also, the Socom will likely be the better shooter of the two, but not much detail was given about the AR. If you are looking for a range rifle and maybe some hunting, go Socom. If for anything in addition to that, like home defense, then I'd need more detail about the AR, but would probably go AR.
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Old 06-21-2009, 09:16 AM   #10
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The good thing with the AR is it's versatility. You can add rails, lights, good optics with a lot of options and manufacturers. But yeah, if it is a target/bullseye rifle, the SOCOM probably is going to be better out of the box.
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Old 06-21-2009, 10:51 AM   #11
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If budget is not a concern, I'd get the Socom. .308 is a fun round to shoot, provided you can afford to shoot it a lot. Also, the Socom will likely be the better shooter of the two, but not much detail was given about the AR. If you are looking for a range rifle and maybe some hunting, go Socom. If for anything in addition to that, like home defense, then I'd need more detail about the AR, but would probably go AR.
Budget isn't too much of a concern, especially with the actual gun, since that's a one time buy. As for the ammo, Although there is a difference between lets say $400 and $600.. for 1000 bullets, that's not really factoring into my decision too much.

The AR would probably just be Springfield as well(assuming they make one) 16" barrel, average twist rate. I'm assuming both of these guns are too much for home defense, especially the socom. I'd have to pick up a shotgun or a handgun for something like that in the future for home defense.

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The good thing with the AR is it's versatility. You can add rails, lights, good optics with a lot of options and manufacturers. But yeah, if it is a target/bullseye rifle, the SOCOM probably is going to be better out of the box.
Yeah I think i'd probably want something more out of the box.


The main drawbacks for the socom is that I feel it may be too powerful and the there will be much more recoil. Also I believe it's a heavier gun. And of course a small factor would be the additional cost. Is there a good reason besides those why I should go with the Ar considering the above?
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Old 06-21-2009, 11:31 AM   #12
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Personally, I'd go down the AR route Cold. Not saying the Socom II is a bad weapon, I personally think it's overrated. Main reason being that it's just a rehash of an older weapon. While the m14 design is tried and true....the price which SA is charging is ridiculous. The AR platform has SOOOO many more options available, and if you pick a good manufacturer you'll be in good hands. Optics, mags, ammo, builds, etc etc.

If you have the money...would you consider a FN SCAR?
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Old 06-21-2009, 11:33 AM   #13
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Wait, is the SOCOM a gas-piston deal?
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Old 06-21-2009, 11:51 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldintake View Post
I have the option of picking up an AR-15 that's in stock for around 1500 (a .223 model) or a Socom II .308 for about 2200 that's not in stock. I don't really mind the wait, but what I want to know is what the differences are? I have very little info on guns so please explain your answer.

Edit.. and is Springfield armory a good brand?

Thanks
The SOCOM II is an awesome rifle, but you won't get one any time soon. I've been waiting for my Springfield Armory M1A Loaded for over 6 months, and I have "priority status" in production (I automatically get frontloaded ahead of standard civilian orders). Word is that standard orders are 9 months to 1 year out for any specialty rifle from Springfield Armory (IE Loaded, SOCOM II, M21, etc).

Just FYI



And yes, Springfield is awesome! They've been around since before WW1
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Old 06-21-2009, 12:09 PM   #15
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You're looking at two different beasts here. The AR is a great gun. But so is the M1A. The ammo isn't that much more expensive for 308...if you compare apples to apples (match grade to match grade or mil surplus to mil surplus) you'll find that 308 is only marginally more expensive. But the big deal is that they're two different guns. You mentioned that you thought 308 may be too powerful...I think the .223/5.56 round is not powerful enough. I've owned both guns and enjoyed both. The AR I used for plinking, carbine competitions...but the M1A was great for long distance shooting (which I love) and hunting (which I also love). I've since sold the M1A and picked up a Remington 700 in 308 for hunting and distance but that was because the M1A is really expensive to accurize. Think about what you want the gun to do. If you want a tacticool assault rifle that you can do 3 gun competitions and carbine courses, and use reliably for self defense...AR is your gun. If you want a classic rifle that has awesome history, is versatile for hunting and long range shooting as well is plinking...M1A is your gun.
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Old 06-21-2009, 12:53 PM   #16
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Personally, I'd go down the AR route Cold. Not saying the Socom II is a bad weapon, I personally think it's overrated. Main reason being that it's just a rehash of an older weapon. While the m14 design is tried and true....the price which SA is charging is ridiculous. The AR platform has SOOOO many more options available, and if you pick a good manufacturer you'll be in good hands. Optics, mags, ammo, builds, etc etc.

If you have the money...would you consider a FN SCAR?
How much do FN SCARs run, why would i get one, and what's the difference?
I just did a quick search and it's appearently a new gun that in use...
(total noob when it comes to this stuff)


Quote:
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Wait, is the SOCOM a gas-piston deal?
Yes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reedo302 View Post
The SOCOM II is an awesome rifle, but you won't get one any time soon. I've been waiting for my Springfield Armory M1A Loaded for over 6 months, and I have "priority status" in production (I automatically get frontloaded ahead of standard civilian orders). Word is that standard orders are 9 months to 1 year out for any specialty rifle from Springfield Armory (IE Loaded, SOCOM II, M21, etc).

Just FYI

And yes, Springfield is awesome! They've been around since before WW1
Well I think the gun shop I went to said he'd get one in a few weeks.. so i'm assuming he's been already on the list?
Do you have an AR 15? Would you suggest one over the other?

Quote:
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You're looking at two different beasts here. The AR is a great gun. But so is the M1A. The ammo isn't that much more expensive for 308...if you compare apples to apples (match grade to match grade or mil surplus to mil surplus) you'll find that 308 is only marginally more expensive. But the big deal is that they're two different guns. You mentioned that you thought 308 may be too powerful...I think the .223/5.56 round is not powerful enough. I've owned both guns and enjoyed both. The AR I used for plinking, carbine competitions...but the M1A was great for long distance shooting (which I love) and hunting (which I also love). I've since sold the M1A and picked up a Remington 700 in 308 for hunting and distance but that was because the M1A is really expensive to accurize. Think about what you want the gun to do. If you want a tacticool assault rifle that you can do 3 gun competitions and carbine courses, and use reliably for self defense...AR is your gun. If you want a classic rifle that has awesome history, is versatile for hunting and long range shooting as well is plinking...M1A is your gun.
I think according your post the M1A is something more along the lines of what i'm looking for. I will not be using any gun to compete, ever.
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Old 06-21-2009, 01:17 PM   #17
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Well I think the gun shop I went to said he'd get one in a few weeks.. so i'm assuming he's been already on the list?
Do you have an AR 15? Would you suggest one over the other?
I have an M4, and I love it. It's a blast to shoot and train with. I do some 3-gun competition stuff and it's certainly a great gun to have. I think that if you're looking at really modifying a gun, the AR is the best way to go. There is so much stuff out there for them, it's nuts.

As far as the gun shop saying they'll get one in few weeks, I'd believe it when I see it. If they already have one on order, it MIGHT be possible. If they don't, then they're probably sourcing a SOCOM II from another shop/dealer and not from Springfield directly. If that's the case, there's gonna be a HUGE markup. I see that you're looking at paying $2200 for the SOCOM II. That's pretty high and I assume there's good markup in there. You should be able to get one for $1800-2000 off of a standard special order. Are you looking at the standard SOCOM II or the SOCOM II with Extended Rail Cluster?
There are several SOCOM II rifles for sale on Gunsamerica.com, but you're always going to pay a bit of a markup for that rifle if you get it while it's in stock. It's in high-demand.
If he's going to order one from the factory, he's got no idea what he's talking about or he's just full of shyt. All Government and Law Enforcement orders go to the front of the line. I'm in that group. I get my order filled before anyone else that's not in that category. I've been waiting 6 months.

All that said, you might luck out. Springfield makes certain models, stops, then makes others. They may do a run of SOCOM 16, SOCOM II and Scout Squad rifles. Then they'll halt and go to the M21 and M25. Then maybe a run of the Standard, National Match, Super Match and Loadeds. From what I can tell, the trick is to get in at the right time for the right run, otherwise you'll be waiting a while.
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Old 06-21-2009, 01:27 PM   #18
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I have an M4, and I love it. It's a blast to shoot and train with. I do some 3-gun competition stuff and it's certainly a great gun to have. I think that if you're looking at really modifying a gun, the AR is the best way to go. There is so much stuff out there for them, it's nuts.

As far as the gun shop saying they'll get one in few weeks, I'd believe it when I see it. If they already have one on order, it MIGHT be possible. If they don't, then they're probably sourcing a SOCOM II from another shop/dealer and not from Springfield directly. If that's the case, there's gonna be a HUGE markup. I see that you're looking at paying $2200 for the SOCOM II. That's pretty high and I assume there's good markup in there. You should be able to get one for $1800-2000 off of a standard special order. Are you looking at the standard SOCOM II or the SOCOM II with Extended Rail Cluster?
There are several SOCOM II rifles for sale on Gunsamerica.com, but you're always going to pay a bit of a markup for that rifle if you get it while it's in stock. It's in high-demand.
If he's going to order one from the factory, he's got no idea what he's talking about or he's just full of shyt. All Government and Law Enforcement orders go to the front of the line. I'm in that group. I get my order filled before anyone else that's not in that category. I've been waiting 6 months.

All that said, you might luck out. Springfield makes certain models, stops, then makes others. They may do a run of SOCOM 16, SOCOM II and Scout Squad rifles. Then they'll halt and go to the M21 and M25. Then maybe a run of the Standard, National Match, Super Match and Loadeds. From what I can tell, the trick is to get in at the right time for the right run, otherwise you'll be waiting a while.
Thanks for the detailed post! I don't really plan on modifying the gun much, maybe the optics or other relatively simple stuff.
As far as the wait, I can ask the guy again exactly how long it'll take. That $2200 is out the door with all the fees. I'm not sure about rails, i'll have to ask.
I've looked online, but truth be told, it's way too much of a hassle since i'm in CA and we have thousands of silly laws for these guns. That's why i'm leaning towards a local shop.


Also a question.. are silencers or flash suppressors illegal for these model guns? I've heard the Socom II is relatively loud. Also how much do brass catchers cost and is there is a reason not to get them? I don't think i'd want brass flying everywhere.
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Old 06-21-2009, 01:50 PM   #19
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Silencer is illegal. Flash suppressor should be ok.
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Old 06-21-2009, 02:23 PM   #20
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Brass catchers have a tendency to cause the gun to either stovepipe or just straight jam up from a clog. They restrict the movement of the brass and can cause the brass to either catch in the action or bunch up and jam with the loading ammo. They're not worth the time.
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