Wine for all you Dummies (LOTS of info)

Originally Posted by JJR4884

haha no sh*t... never knew he had a wine

i'll be sure to throw it as far as possible if i ever come across one because i fvcking hate him that annoying prick

but that would be fun to try... however experience has taught me that any "celebrity" wine (no offense) is usually bottom of the barrel wine that is more of a collector's wine (if that) than a wine to actually drink, rate, and enjoy.... i.e. the "i love lucy" and "marilyn monroe" wines

but the fact that he has his own winery intrigues me a bit more, since its not just a bottle of wine with a celeb's picture on it


i'll try it out if i ever come across it, thanks

It actually won a Gold Medal- San Francisco Chronicle Wine Competition Jan 9, 2009.

A little more info:
"The first ever Madden Ranch Cabernet Sauvignon produced wholly from cab grapes from famed football coach John Madden's vineyard in the Livermore Valley. Winemaker Tom Doczy personally picked out each row of fruit and carefully controlled the management of the vineyard rows."


I guess you could say he really didn't make it, rather someone else used his vineyard

You can buy a bottle, but for nearly $40 I'm sure you could find better though.
http://www.johnchristophercellars.co...nepg.cfm?wn=18

-djt

Wow, can't thank you enough. I serve at a fine dining restaurant (we have Sommeliers) and have some less than basic info on wine, but is there any more info you could give on pairings.
Popular dishes we serve: Elk, Lamb (shank, loin, chop), Filet Mignot, NY strip, Ono, Halibut, Mahi Mahi. I understand that you would want to pair a lighter red with a dish such as the filet, but what about different fishes? Our halibut is lighter than the Ono, but would you go as far to suggest a Chardonnay? These are problems I run into that I would love to be knowledgeable with across the board not having to request the Sommeliers for. (I could pick at their brains all day long) Thanks for any help.

Originally Posted by Schrock

Wow, can't thank you enough. I serve at a fine dining restaurant (we have Sommeliers) and have some less than basic info on wine, but is there any more info you could give on pairings.
Popular dishes we serve: Elk, Lamb (shank, loin, chop), Filet Mignot, NY strip, Ono, Halibut, Mahi Mahi. I understand that you would want to pair a lighter red with a dish such as the filet, but what about different fishes? Our halibut is lighter than the Ono, but would you go as far to suggest a Chardonnay? These are problems I run into that I would love to be knowledgeable with across the board not having to request the Sommeliers for. (I could pick at their brains all day long) Thanks for any help.

(deep breath) lol
keep in mind this is very general and basic.... without seeing how the dishes are prepared and the wine list, i can't give 100% accuracy

for gamy food like elk, you need a big red to step up to the depth and intensity of the meat......... zinfandels, syrah/shiraz, petite syrah, amarones, and chateauneuf du pape will work well.......... all of these reds have a deep rich earthy flavor to them, especially the zin, amarone, and chat du pape.... these types of wine will pair up a lot better than a vibrant fruity californian cabernet (to give you an example of what not to suggest)


lamb... once again depending on how it is served, can be served with a sh*tload of red wines. determine how heavy/light the dish is, and you can serve anywhere from a pinot noir, merlot, and nero d'avola all the way up to a chateauneuf du pape, cabernet, zinfandel, or ribero del duero... all depends on how heavy the dish is. personally i would go with a drier pinot noir if it were a light dish... if were a heavier lamb, i would go with ribero del duero (spain)

filet mignon..... pinot noir, merlot (my personal fav) nero d'avola, bordeaux, amarones, tempranillo, malbec, chianti (however a little sweet for me) and if you want to go with a cabernet, i wouldn't go with california fruit bombs.... i would go with an earthier chilean cab rhone wines will work well too (france)

ny strips, rib eyes, and porterhouses are fattier cuts of meat, so go a little bit bigger with the wines. californian cabs can work, as well as oregon and washington cabs. all of the heavier red wines will work as well. syrah, petite syrah, petite verdot , zinfandels (probably my last choice, i don't like zins lol) malbecs, valpolicella and montepulciano d'abruzzo's from italy, and the list can go on and on lol


as far as fish goes
pinot noir with those fatty fishes...... salmon and sea bass come to mind, if its a sweeter dish pair it up with a beajolais or sangiovese

for lighter flaky fishes, keep the wine light...... so no chardonnay since its one of the heaviest whites. depending on how the dish is prepared, you could go with a pinot grigio, sauvignon blanc from new zealand if the dish is a little fruitier/sweeter, rieslings from germany or washington, alsace, or even a soave if the dish is a little heavier

a tip for serving heavy white wines like chardonnay....... serve with some heavy and/or sweet cheeses (i.e. port wine) or with rich and creamy dishes. chardonnays are very strong, it can easily over power any fish (even salmon) so careful with what you serve with it......... good substitutes for chardonnay....... vouvray (chenin blanc) or sancerre (very similar)


hope that helps bud
if you have any other questions lemme know

if you see a wine that i mentioned on here, give it a quick google that way you can find out a little bit more about the grape

Originally Posted by djtroll

It actually won a Gold Medal- San Francisco Chronicle Wine Competition Jan 9, 2009.

A little more info:
"The first ever Madden Ranch Cabernet Sauvignon produced wholly from cab grapes from famed football coach John Madden's vineyard in the Livermore Valley. Winemaker Tom Doczy personally picked out each row of fruit and carefully controlled the management of the vineyard rows."


I guess you could say he really didn't make it, rather someone else used his vineyard

You can buy a bottle, but for nearly $40 I'm sure you could find better though.
http://www.johnchristophercellars.co...nepg.cfm?wn=18

-djt

thank you for the info/link

Originally Posted by JJR4884

(deep breath) lol
keep in mind this is very general and basic.... without seeing how the dishes are prepared and the wine list, i can't give 100% accuracy

for gamy food like elk, you need a big red to step up to the depth and intensity of the meat......... zinfandels, syrah/shiraz, petite syrah, amarones, and chateauneuf du pape will work well.......... all of these reds have a deep rich earthy flavor to them, especially the zin, amarone, and chat du pape.... these types of wine will pair up a lot better than a vibrant fruity californian cabernet (to give you an example of what not to suggest)


lamb... once again depending on how it is served, can be served with a sh*tload of red wines. determine how heavy/light the dish is, and you can serve anywhere from a pinot noir, merlot, and nero d'avola all the way up to a chateauneuf du pape, cabernet, zinfandel, or ribero del duero... all depends on how heavy the dish is. personally i would go with a drier pinot noir if it were a light dish... if were a heavier lamb, i would go with ribero del duero (spain)

filet mignon..... pinot noir, merlot (my personal fav) nero d'avola, bordeaux, amarones, tempranillo, malbec, chianti (however a little sweet for me) and if you want to go with a cabernet, i wouldn't go with california fruit bombs.... i would go with an earthier chilean cab rhone wines will work well too (france)

ny strips, rib eyes, and porterhouses are fattier cuts of meat, so go a little bit bigger with the wines. californian cabs can work, as well as oregon and washington cabs. all of the heavier red wines will work as well. syrah, petite syrah, petite verdot , zinfandels (probably my last choice, i don't like zins lol) malbecs, valpolicella and montepulciano d'abruzzo's from italy, and the list can go on and on lol


as far as fish goes
pinot noir with those fatty fishes...... salmon and sea bass come to mind, if its a sweeter dish pair it up with a beajolais or sangiovese

for lighter flaky fishes, keep the wine light...... so no chardonnay since its one of the heaviest whites. depending on how the dish is prepared, you could go with a pinot grigio, sauvignon blanc from new zealand if the dish is a little fruitier/sweeter, rieslings from germany or washington, alsace, or even a soave if the dish is a little heavier

a tip for serving heavy white wines like chardonnay....... serve with some heavy and/or sweet cheeses (i.e. port wine) or with rich and creamy dishes. chardonnays are very strong, it can easily over power any fish (even salmon) so careful with what you serve with it......... good substitutes for chardonnay....... vouvray (chenin blanc) or sancerre (very similar)


hope that helps bud
if you have any other questions lemme know

if you see a wine that i mentioned on here, give it a quick google that way you can find out a little bit more about the grape

Thank you so much! I have to do some further research but this is awesome info! Thanks again, much appreciated. I am going to be going home with tips from a happy , now to this haha

Originally Posted by JJR4884

haha no sh*t... never knew he had a wine

i'll be sure to throw it as far as possible if i ever come across one because i fvcking hate him that annoying prick

but that would be fun to try... however experience has taught me that any "celebrity" wine (no offense) is usually bottom of the barrel wine that is more of a collector's wine (if that) than a wine to actually drink, rate, and enjoy.... i.e. the "i love lucy" and "marilyn monroe" wines

but the fact that he has his own winery intrigues me a bit more, since its not just a bottle of wine with a celeb's picture on it


i'll try it out if i ever come across it, thanks

You'd be surprised at some of the celebrity wines that are respectible. Francis Ford Coppola, Fess Parker and Fred MacMurray come to mind.

Originally Posted by Schrock

Thank you so much! I have to do some further research but this is awesome info! Thanks again, much appreciated. I am going to be going home with tips from a happy , now to this haha

glad i could help

Originally Posted by Alex323Ci

You'd be surprised at some of the celebrity wines that are respectible. Francis Ford Coppola, Fess Parker and Fred MacMurray come to mind.

oh no i know that.... i was referring to the wines that have David Ortiz and Manny Ramirez on the label

Coppola makes incredible wines

FYI, according to the teacher at my last wine course, the reason Yellow Tail is crap is because they accelerate the wine making process for volume.

Instead of aging the wine in oak barrels, they age it in steel barrels, but near the end of the process they dump oak chips in for a bit. This is a quick and dirty way of giving you the "oakey" flavor without aging in oak barrels. This process is MUCH faster than oak barrel aging, but doesnt taste as good.

If you're looking for solid European wines, the Catalunyan wines are fantastic. They had a great year in 2005 as well so fairly recently. I love "Marques de Alella". Their Cava is also a great champagne alternative.

Originally Posted by Bartacus

FYI, according to the teacher at my last wine course, the reason Yellow Tail is crap is because they accelerate the wine making process for volume.

Instead of aging the wine in oak barrels, they age it in steel barrels, but near the end of the process they dump oak chips in for a bit. This is a quick and dirty way of giving you the "oakey" flavor without aging in oak barrels. This process is MUCH faster than oak barrel aging, but doesnt taste as good.

Yellowtail is crap because of the goddamn sugar and acidity levels in the wine too seriously it is sooooooooooo overbearing its not even funny. However the fermenting process like you mentioned, definitely not a good thing, however it is a process that can still work and not to mention, a lot of wineries use this type of fermentation.

Decent oak barrels can cost up to $500 a piece , so to make a good chardonnay but trying to keep the price down as much as possible, you would much rather go stainless fermented and add oak chips. Clearly not the best way to do it, but you can do it that way and still have a decent wine, especially if you don't like those over oaked wines

Originally Posted by 3erdriver

If you're looking for solid European wines, the Catalunyan wines are fantastic. They had a great year in 2005 as well so fairly recently. I love "Marques de Alella". Their Cava is also a great champagne alternative.

Thanks for the tip, never heard of it before. I'll keep an eye out

Originally Posted by JJR4884

Decent oak barrels can cost up to $500 a piece , so to make a good chardonnay but trying to keep the price down as much as possible, you would much rather go stainless fermented and add oak chips. Clearly not the best way to do it, but you can do it that way and still have a decent wine, especially if you don't like those over oaked wines

You're a fountain of interesting information man. If by "over-oaked" you mean "typical cheap shiraz", I hate that crap. Gives me headaches the next day whether I have one glass, or the entire bottle. I only buy cab sauv now.

You mentioned not liking southern Austrailian wines. Ever try any of the Wolf Blass premium cab sauvs? Like Bilyara Reserve? Or their "premium selection" cabs? They are very good.

Originally Posted by Bartacus

You're a fountain of interesting information man. If by "over-oaked" you mean "typical cheap shiraz", I hate that crap. Gives me headaches the next day whether I have one glass, or the entire bottle. I only buy cab sauv now.

You mentioned not liking southern Austrailian wines. Ever try any of the Wolf Blass premium cab sauvs? Like Bilyara Reserve? Or their "premium selection" cabs? They are very good.

but yes, thats what i mean by over-oaked.... reds aren't too too bad for me, but when it comes to chardonnay,
cabs are the best.... definitely my favorite "typical" wine

tell you the truth, i know australia has incredible wines (just look at their climate) but unfortunately many of the aussie wines around here are the same caliber as yellow tail, little penguin, and the rest of those fruit juices. i definitely am willing to try a nice bottle.... but in all honesty, i don't think i'm going to enjoy it that much. when it comes to reds, i like a dry, earthy, spicy, dark and mellow red.... i need old clay-like soil for that especially for heavier shiraz-like wines....

but i'll keep an eye out for some of the wines you mentioned and i'll definitely give them a shot. i always enjoy trying new wines and hey, wines change, pallets change, so you never know

however.... sauv blancs from new zealand = to die for
love em

Originally Posted by JJR4884

however.... sauv blancs from new zealand = to die for
love em

I can't do white wine. I took a wine course, tasted 8 different whites, used the crappy taste wheel (or whatever they call that silly thing), and I couldn't tell them apart. I just don't have the palate for that. Hell, I drink wine with "buffalo wing and blue cheese" potato chips man. Sofistikated I ain't.

1.99/bottle
19.99/case (1.67/bottle)

The wife loves Chardonnay...looking for something like V. Sattui or Cakebread (her favorites). Does anyone have a suggestion? We get both from the actual wineries, so we don't spend the "store" prices, but I want to get her something nice when we have some family coming in. Looking for taste, not price...she drinks La Crema when going to the store. Russian river has had some nice stuff lately, but I haven't been following things.

-djt

Valmont: South East Australia = Riverina = Yellowtail (it's the Languedoc of Australia) all the cask wines/cheap wines come from there. These wines are not indicative of Australian wine.

JJR: If you like spicy/earthy shiraz i.e cool climate ones. Look for

Seppelt St Peters or Mt Ida Shiraz. (http://www.seppelt.com.au/wines/stpeters.html)
Jasper Hill Georgias or Emily Paddock (http://www.jasperhill.com/thesoils.asp)
Clonakilla Shiraz Viognier or Hilltops Shiraz (http://www.clonakilla.com.au/ourwines.html)

but if you can post me a link to a site you buy from I can advise of some good examples to try in different price brackets.

Originally Posted by Bartacus

I can't do white wine. I took a wine course, tasted 8 different whites, used the crappy taste wheel (or whatever they call that silly thing), and I couldn't tell them apart. I just don't have the palate for that. Hell, I drink wine with "buffalo wing and blue cheese" potato chips man. Sofistikated I ain't.

ya um... i find it very hard to pair a wine with buffalo wings

but hey, at least you tried it. if you don't like it, hell you don't like it. i have a few friends that despise wine, and then again a couple of them i turned into wine LOVERS......... hypocrits

Originally Posted by VALMONT

1.99/bottle
19.99/case (1.67/bottle)

send me one lol

Originally Posted by djtroll

The wife loves Chardonnay...looking for something like V. Sattui or Cakebread (her favorites). Does anyone have a suggestion? We get both from the actual wineries, so we don't spend the "store" prices, but I want to get her something nice when we have some family coming in. Looking for taste, not price...she drinks La Crema when going to the store. Russian river has had some nice stuff lately, but I haven't been following things.

-djt

Russian River is probably one of my most favorite valleys for california, haven't been disappointed with any of their wines yet That and Alexander Valley
Anyways, i'm not huge on Chardonnays but I will tell you, if you like Cakebread you will absolutely love Chalk Hill... little pricey, but it is my all time favorite chardonnay. for a little less, you can get Talbott, just had it yesterday and definitely one of the best $35ish bottles i have had.

If you want to stay in a lower price range and still get great wine, i would actually try a chardonnay (or equivalent) from chile or argentina. you could always try a soave from italy as well, all great tasting wines

ferrari-carano i was impressed with (cali) as well as markham (one of my favs from cali, all his wines are awesome.) another thing to keep in mind for whites is beringer... they make really cheap wines, but if you spend a little bit extra on some decent bottles of theirs, you truly do get great wine.

Originally Posted by davide330

Valmont: South East Australia = Riverina = Yellowtail (it's the Languedoc of Australia) all the cask wines/cheap wines come from there. These wines are not indicative of Australian wine.

JJR: If you like spicy/earthy shiraz i.e cool climate ones. Look for

Seppelt St Peters or Mt Ida Shiraz. (http://www.seppelt.com.au/wines/stpeters.html)
Jasper Hill Georgias or Emily Paddock (http://www.jasperhill.com/thesoils.asp)
Clonakilla Shiraz Viognier or Hilltops Shiraz (http://www.clonakilla.com.au/ourwines.html)

but if you can post me a link to a site you buy from I can advise of some good examples to try in different price brackets.

thanks man, i usually order from my local wine places, but from time to time i'll order from winechateau.com

i got carried away the other night... drinking 2 bottles of wine while lurking on OT... I was buzzed after and fell asleep on my table. yummi wine ... don't like red wine that much tho, but white wine... novelle is actually pretty yummi. I'm an alci i know.

lol, ya white wine has higher sugar content, you'll def feel it more in the morning

years back i downed a 1.5L of Yellowtail Chard, lets just say I was a walking funeral the next day.


I want you to try to get in to reds however..... try some beaujolais and pinot noir, they are definitely the lighter reds and will be easier to start off with
Keep in mind, if you find a red wine tasting "hot" you are probably drinking it at 65-70 degrees which is way too warm. Open the bottle and put it in the fridge for 25 minutes, you should be able to enjoy it a little more

Manyana Tempranillo

2007 is out right now, costs $13 a bottle. Chill it for a good 25 minutes then let it open up, decant for one hour if you can


Light and spicy, perfect for a mild breezy summer night
Kept a bottle in the fridge for a little bit too long (whoops) however when I smelled it, I picked up a HUGE amount of coffee/cocoa on the nose. Lol, i guess you learn some weird things by accident every once in a while. So here is a random tip

If you can't put your nose on it (pun intended) put a glass of wine in the fridge for say.... 15 minutes. Suprisingly enough, smelling the wine at a cold temperature will kill the alcohol smell almost completely, and it will make those deep rich flavors come through a lot more noticable.

I would suggest only doing this with a little bit of wine, the dry air in the fridge and the sudden change of temperature is not good for the wine, so only do this if you are interested in trying to pick up on different characteristics of the nose