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Forced Induction Forum Sponsored by Active Autowerke
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Old 05-30-2009, 09:54 AM   #101
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Plastic manifold may not be strong enough to hold the boost (most likely not)
True, but it will only be about 14 psi, depending on the turbo.
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Old 05-30-2009, 11:46 AM   #102
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14 psi would be too much without a built motor though..
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Old 05-30-2009, 02:50 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by ritos530i View Post
Subscribed I want to know all about M54B30 motors making over 400rwhp. Is it possible and is there really only one person even close enough to do it?
How many M54B30 motors that have been built for Force Induction or nitrous that we know of. Surely Adam(PEI330ci) can't be the only one.
there are a few of us
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Old 05-30-2009, 03:11 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by GTUnit View Post
Plastic manifold may not be strong enough to hold the boost (most likely not)
I'm not sure if it is different with a turbo but I believe the ESS TS3 kit uses the OEM kit which is 14-15psi.
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Old 05-30-2009, 03:54 PM   #105
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LOL, Ritos, no offense, but if you actually posted all the info from your setup, instead of being cryptic all the time, people might have a better appreciation for your car.

I know you're trying to keep things a little private, and appreciate that, but if the car is running strong and you've got the tune mostly solved you should post it up, I troll bf.c FI, and if I missed it there my apologies, but I've yet to see a build thread from you.

None of us can really know what your car is doing if you don't post it....
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Old 05-30-2009, 03:56 PM   #106
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I'm not sure if it is different with a turbo but I believe the ESS TS3 kit uses the OEM kit which is 14-15psi.
The TSx all come with the aluminum intake manifold with the TS2 and up coming with the laminova cores for chargecooling (just like yours basically).
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Old 05-30-2009, 07:10 PM   #107
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The TSx all come with the aluminum intake manifold with the TS2 and up coming with the laminova cores for chargecooling (just like yours basically).
I know...I wasn't thinking. I tried to come back on the forum and erase my post but I guess I'm too late.

Damn you!
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Old 05-30-2009, 07:59 PM   #108
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LOL, Ritos, no offense, but if you actually posted all the info from your setup, instead of being cryptic all the time, people might have a better appreciation for your car.

I know you're trying to keep things a little private, and appreciate that, but if the car is running strong and you've got the tune mostly solved you should post it up, I troll bf.c FI, and if I missed it there my apologies, but I've yet to see a build thread from you.

None of us can really know what your car is doing if you don't post it....
First off everything about my car from the good to the bad has been posted all over the place. Secondly i am not being cryptic about anyones build and probably their biggest supporter. Thirdly, I have done a lot to try and test these motors and show all the negatives and positives of what i was doing. Didn't hide anything about what i was doing. It was the lack of support I have gotten on the forum with all the attacks on me because i didn't know anything but who reached out to help. Everyone seems to know more about my car than I do. Bimmerforum has a lot of useful information but I was tired of all the attacks i was getting when I was trying to use the forum for help. I ask one question and got attacked about something else so there was no need to keep beating a dead horse. Some of it could have been a miscommunication on my part or just people who think they know everything. Not going to debate that.

My car.
2004 530i E60 with M54B30 MS45.1 6 speed manual
Custom Wizard of Nos nitrous system(Direct Port) done years ago, Stage III+ race clutch and light weight flywheel(suppose to handle 1500lbs of torque), Snow Performance Methanol/Water Injection kit w/boost juice and nitro, Innovated Wideband LC1 and OTR-1 data logging. My motor was built by a race company out in Texas (one of the builders frequent the forums) The block was bore .5mm with JE forged pistons 8.5:1 Eagle rods super tech valve job ported and polished head and flow tested 253 ARP head studs stock head gasket, Jim Blanton LSD Diff 3.91 gears, universal STS rear mounted turbo system (T4OE T4 P-TRIM 60-1 .68 A/R W/turbine design specially to be ran in the rear of the car), since my car comes with a bigger brake system i basically only changed to race pads, has factory upgraded suspension/sway bars but no other upgrades with chassis that i know of from the factory. The rear mounted turbo system wasn't ideal for most tuners so most of them are reluctant to help. My first tune was by upsolute(which they only pull files and upload files and the tuning was done by professionals in Europe(Austria using EVC hardware) this was a basic N/A tune, then i had a nitrous tune from them (several as i was upgrading the jets weekly) when i decided to go turbo they done my initial tune but for only 24lb injectors and upping the fuel pressure, which i was at this point changing things on the car on a weekly basis and each time driving the car 3 hours to have them pull the tune off the DME(on my car it could not be flashed at the OBD II port so the DME had to be removed each time) this got old for me so when I installed the newly built motor I just had a AEM FIC wired in by a AEM Master tech but he did not tune the car. I had to learn the basics(not that i am good at it) and installed some 42lb injectors that i got used from Jon on bimmerforum. After about 2 weeks of road tuning the car ran really well and strong. I did not do any dyno testing so no proof of that. I got word there was a dyno day three hours away and everyone wanted me to bring the car along. One of my friends owned a M3 (stock basically with exhaust) and love to race. Lots of footage and caravan videos that I never upload or posted anywhere. Anyway, the night before I decided i wanted to run my larger injectors which are 630cc. i did the install and used the software to just do a injector percentage upgrade on the tune and drove the car three hours but I had my laptop making as much changes while in route. Once getting there i knew the tune was off but i didn't have time to adjust around this as i kept blowing off the charge pipe work after intercooler and making stops to fix that. Anyway, I had no intention to dyno the car but by the end of the day my friends thought i should see where i am at with the tune as my buddy thought the car was running strong and I was smoking everyone on the trip. Keep in mind I haven't spray my high powerful nitrous system since starting the turbo project so that wasn't giving me the extra power. After everyone was done dyno-ing the owner ask me if i would so yes i did it. The dyno was a dyno Dynamics dyno that reads fairly low but that wasn't as important as seeing where i was at. After the first run the car was way lean but still made 321rwhp(377rwhp on a dynojet dyno) so I ask could i use my laptop to up the fuel before even making another run. I was taught to make baby steps so i did a 40% fuel add which on the second run was 339rwhp(398rwhp on a dynojet dyno) so a gain of 18rwhp but the car was still lean. I realize the methanol system was not on so I basically just turned it on but there was now something wrong with it activating. so same results. I must have knocked something loose while fixing the charge pipes driving up. Anyway that was my last run so from this point on I had to tune the car on the way back. I did not feel safe driving back the car without checking everything and adjusting the tune. I had a dyno sheets only to go off with my in car wideband. I told my friends to go ahead as i want to check everything before heading back. Found another boost leak and notice the wire connected to the maf harness(this is for the methanol kit) was pulled off so reconnected that. Hooked up my laptop and made the changes i felt I needed to make for a safe drive home. I even turned down the boost controller as well as adjust the maps, after about 1 hour and half into the trip the car started responding awesomely. I was like now why couldn't this happen on the dyno LOL I was 30 minutes from home when this new model Porsche heard me pass by as the turbo was singing all the way. I was probably cruising about 75mph when he came chasing me down. I did not want to race him but he insisted. I felt like this big car no matter how much power it made had no chance against the twin turbo Porsche. Well little did i know down shifting to 4th and flooring it's sent me two car length in front of him. he following me all the way in just so he could ask what i had under the hood. He was surprise of the car response and surely did not think a rear mounted turbo was in the picture. So in spite of what others say and the last dyno's i posted I know the car is running pretty damn good. This was a year ago and nothing with the setup has changed just tweaking things. I have been running the stock MAF plumbed into the charge pipe right before the TB and Not sure if it's safe to turn up the boost any further before upgrading the MAF (it's just commonly done but not sure if it's needed yet) The problem with that, no one will share with me which MAF but I now don't need this as i have a solution that's far better than what's being used and will solve the issues others are having regardless which system on your car.
They only reason i haven't done much more with the cars I am reluctant to go any further with the car unless i have a professional over look the system to make sure it's safe to go further. Also, with this economy I have ran out of money to play so the car has not been driven. Not because there is something wrong with it. So unless any knowledgeable guys are willing to donate their time to help me out it will stay parked. What I do know is the car will make more than 400rwhp if not already. If i wanted to just stay where i am at now and spray the hell out of it with nitrous i could do that but that was not my goal from the start and not my goal now. I built my motor/car for the intended purpose of testing the limits of the M54B30. I am not an expert at much, I do not log my work like our buddy Adam who has done well at posting up information and detailing everything he has done. I don't have the facility and equipment accessible to me to do anything out side of what i already done.
So, there you have it and no one can not say I didn't tell everyone about my build because the information is out there for everyone to see. The threads are not a great example due to i spend most of the time defending what i have done and how I have done it. Again, there are a few out there who think they know more about my car than i do but I don't think there is nothing but a handful of guys in the world that can say for sure if the M54B30 is up for the task which none of us are done yet.

Signed
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Old 05-30-2009, 08:24 PM   #109
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holy crap - that looks like good bedtime reading
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Old 05-30-2009, 09:32 PM   #110
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hey, dont hate...this has been a long wait...and hopefully it will be done soon
Good to hear Stuart!
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Old 05-31-2009, 01:26 AM   #111
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I've witnessed the HPF Stage M3 on the Dyno and it is absolutely wild. That being said, I truly believe 340hp to the wheels in a 330 is going to be the limit to keeping the entire car reliable. Even with that, a better clutch will be needed.

I drive my 330i a lot and it never gets boring. I haven't been able to justify spending the money on a FI kit... Especially since I'm about to give the car to my soon to be 16 year old son. I suspect I will replace it with the Twin Turbo 335i, but the E46 is a much better looking car.
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Old 05-31-2009, 01:56 AM   #112
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First off everything about my car from the good to the bad has been posted all over the place. .....long section that I need not quote....
Signed
Rito Brisbane
Thanks!

While I'd read most of that through the years (having tried to follow your build), little details had escaped me, and likely others are much less informed than I was (mostly because of my presence on multiple forums).

You certainly have a very unique, and fast car, and I'd like to see you put together a thread showing everything you've done if you ever do end up with a final tune and dyno numbers for the car.

I'm not anti-rear mount, as I've seen what they are capable of, but most recognize the disadvantages that are there aren't small by any means.
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Old 05-31-2009, 02:46 AM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BimmerDude18 View Post
Thanks!

While I'd read most of that through the years (having tried to follow your build), little details had escaped me, and likely others are much less informed than I was (mostly because of my presence on multiple forums).

You certainly have a very unique, and fast car, and I'd like to see you put together a thread showing everything you've done if you ever do end up with a final tune and dyno numbers for the car.

I'm not anti-rear mount, as I've seen what they are capable of, but most recognize the disadvantages that are there aren't small by any means.
I hear a lot of people talk about disadvantages but none of them have been confirmed nor tested that i can see. I would like to finish the car and just race whoever is a nonbeliever. I would be very happy to discuss the details of the disadvantages if interested. I personally thank that the rear mounted turbo has more of an advantage than a front mount.
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Old 05-31-2009, 09:49 AM   #114
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There are tons of 330 owners out there who want to boost their cars, but don't want to pay $7,000-8,000 for a kit that puts out moderate power. It's a good increase, sure, but most stock performance cars will still beat a boosted 330.
I think it was totally worth it. Especially when I pulled a 5th gen stage 2 AA SC e46 M3. Granted, by pulled, I'm talking inches, we hung together every run. I don't know how much power I was making, but it was elevated boost with meth. Since then, my meth controller caught fire, I replaced it, it messed with the MAF output, when they give me a refund I'll tell which controller not to buy. But the SC stageII from Active is hardly stock, and the M3 is a performance car. And the TT kit is only $6900.

Quote:
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2004 530i E60 with M54B30 MS45.1 6 speed manual
Custom Wizard of Nos nitrous system(Direct Port) done years ago, Stage III+ race clutch and light weight flywheel(suppose to handle 1500lbs of torque), Snow Performance Methanol/Water Injection kit w/boost juice and nitro, Innovated Wideband LC1 and OTR-1 data logging. My motor was built by a race company out in Texas (one of the builders frequent the forums) The block was bore .5mm with JE forged pistons 8.5:1 Eagle rods super tech valve job ported and polished head and flow tested 253 ARP head studs stock head gasket, Jim Blanton LSD Diff 3.91 gears, universal STS rear mounted turbo system (T4OE T4 P-TRIM 60-1 .68 A/R W/turbine design specially to be ran in the rear of the car), Again, there are a few out there who think they know more about my car than i do but I don't think there is nothing but a handful of guys in the world that can say for sure if the M54B30 is up for the task which none of us are done yet.
I salute you, Ritos.
I am myself undertaking a similar project. At the core of my turbo kit is a TT stage 1. Nick has been great at providing tuning as my project escalates and I test the limits of the stock M54b30. I've had some bad luck with my motor as it is a used junk-yard motor. I think it suffered most of its wear sitting... perhaps outside. Anyway, the ring damage is obvious. Despite that, the car still runs very healthy and gets great mileage. Venting the crankcase has its downsides, though- this is something I've done to continue to run my damaged engine, not something anyone should do, ever. When you're exhausting combustion gasses under the hood, sometimes it crawls up the AC.
So now, I am building an engine very similar to yours. I am utilizing an unusual alternative to anchor the head, steel inserts (pics to come), no aluminum threads. 8.5-9:1 compression, eagle rods, a slightly larger ball bearing turbo on the TT bottom-mount cast manifold. My machine work will be undertaken by Jim Higgs of JB racing. He currently already has my original motor, of which the crank cannot be reused. DOES ANYONE HAVE A 89.6mm CRANK FOR SALE, CHEAP?!

I'm excited to see the progress of your car, do you have a way of measuring assessing knock?
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Old 05-31-2009, 11:09 AM   #115
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I hear a lot of people talk about disadvantages but none of them have been confirmed nor tested that i can see. I would like to finish the car and just race whoever is a nonbeliever. I would be very happy to discuss the details of the disadvantages if interested. I personally thank that the rear mounted turbo has more of an advantage than a front mount.
Well, its "less efficient," you have 20' of extra oil lines, and the distance means that you have let your exhaust cool some before reaching the turbo, so you've lost some of the exhaust energy here.

The efficiency arguement comes in because you run a smaller turbo in the rear (typically) to make up for energy losses on the engine side of the exhaust housing, as a result, when you run higher boost and CFM levels, the turbo is a bit small...
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Old 05-31-2009, 12:18 PM   #116
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Quote:
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Well, its "less efficient," you have 20' of extra oil lines, and the distance means that you have let your exhaust cool some before reaching the turbo, so you've lost some of the exhaust energy here.

The efficiency arguement comes in because you run a smaller turbo in the rear (typically) to make up for energy losses on the engine side of the exhaust housing, as a result, when you run higher boost and CFM levels, the turbo is a bit small...
Ok, first off, how long the oil lines are have nothing to do with anything. The pressure in BMW oil systems is so high it makes no difference. Besides with turbos you need very little oil to keep them cooled.
I understand that the exhaust gases may not be as hot as it would be when exiting the head as appose to in the rear of the car. Still doesn't justify how much energy you need to make a turbo spool which this has more to do with the turbine wheel than anything else and a real rear mounted turbo are configured for this exact purpose. You can't take just any turbo and stick it in the back and think it's going to give you the same results. I could have had my turbo configured to spool just like any front mounted system. I have this high powerful nitrous system and don't see the point with the early spool.
As for the size, Sorry but you are wrong again, I have the smallest turbo that STS makes and it's rated at over 600+bhp which is not a small turbo at all. Small turbos are 300-450rwhp max.
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Old 05-31-2009, 12:24 PM   #117
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I think it was totally worth it. Especially when I pulled a 5th gen stage 2 AA SC e46 M3. Granted, by pulled, I'm talking inches, we hung together every run. I don't know how much power I was making, but it was elevated boost with meth. Since then, my meth controller caught fire, I replaced it, it messed with the MAF output, when they give me a refund I'll tell which controller not to buy. But the SC stageII from Active is hardly stock, and the M3 is a performance car. And the TT kit is only $6900.
Nice man I'm glad you like it. But in your sig it looks like you only gained .3 seconds off the 1/4 mile? You might want to swap that cam for a boost profile.. something with no overlap will increase your gains.

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Ok, first off, how long the oil lines are have nothing to do with anything. The pressure in BMW oil systems is so high it makes no difference. Besides with turbos you need very little oil to keep them cooled.
I understand that the exhaust gases may not be as hot as it would be when exiting the head as appose to in the rear of the car. Still doesn't justify how much energy you need to make a turbo spool which this has more to do with the turbine wheel than anything else and a real rear mounted turbo are configured for this exact purpose. You can't take just any turbo and stick it in the back and think it's going to give you the same results. I could have had my turbo configured to spool just like any front mounted system. I have this high powerful nitrous system and don't see the point with the early spool.
As for the size, Sorry but you are wrong again, I have the smallest turbo that STS makes and it's rated at over 600+bhp which is not a small turbo at all. Small turbos are 300-450rwhp max.
It goes even smaller than that.. T25's are rated at 230whp or so, and there are even T1's and T2's.. 600hp, like you said, is a moderate to large sized turbo.

How's the noise from the rear-mounted kit? It always seemed that under spool the STS kit's were reaaaaally loud.
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Old 05-31-2009, 12:30 PM   #118
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Ok, first off, how long the oil lines are have nothing to do with anything. The pressure in BMW oil systems is so high it makes no difference. Besides with turbos you need very little oil to keep them cooled.
I understand that the exhaust gases may not be as hot as it would be when exiting the head as appose to in the rear of the car. Still doesn't justify how much energy you need to make a turbo spool which this has more to do with the turbine wheel than anything else and a real rear mounted turbo are configured for this exact purpose. You can't take just any turbo and stick it in the back and think it's going to give you the same results. I could have had my turbo configured to spool just like any front mounted system. I have this high powerful nitrous system and don't see the point with the early spool.
As for the size, Sorry but you are wrong again, I have the smallest turbo that STS makes and it's rated at over 600+bhp which is not a small turbo at all. Small turbos are 300-450rwhp max.
I've seen actually comparisons between setups on the Z's.

My point was this, STS runs a smaller exhaust turbine to keep the spool RPM's down some. This means that at high CFM (read high load high RPM) the exhaust housing is a larger restriction, read less efficient. They then run a decently large intake housing so that they can make more power.

This results however, in the turbo being less efficient at higher power levels, than a turbo with a larger exhaust housing (which if placed at the manifold would spool about the same).

As for oil lines - long oil lines just mean more potential areas for leaks, more oil in the system, and more work to get it set up. It works fine, but its something to consider.

You get that heat point out from the engine bay, which is huge, but in turn, you pull fresh air from a low point on the car, so driving in the rain can be more dangerous.

Like I said, I'm not anti rear mount, I'm impressed by how they are doing on the Z's, and if there was a better tuning option than reflash (long story on why I say this) for my car I'd be a bit psyched about putting one in myself. The tuning becomes cost prohibitive quickly though.
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Old 05-31-2009, 12:33 PM   #119
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My Ride: 1998 528i
Quote:
Originally Posted by Attaus View Post
Nice man I'm glad you like it. But in your sig it looks like you only gained .3 seconds off the 1/4 mile? You might want to swap that cam for a boost profile.. something with no overlap will increase your gains.
His 1/4 times with the turbo were at Orlando Speed World, which is typically a slow track, that night didn't disappoint. I managed to spin on MT ET street radials on my 3rd run that night (the only run I really pushed it), so I can't imagine how he had any grip on a street tire.

You have to realize (I'm sure you do) that most of the time gain in the 1/4 comes from the first 330' time gain, and your ability to put power down becomes critical...
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1998 528i 5-speed Work in progress
1988 Toyota Pickup (4WD 5-speed) daily
2007 San Marino Blue 350z 6-speed sold
1996 328i 5-speed sold


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Old 05-31-2009, 12:35 PM   #120
Attaus
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Texas/Cali
Posts: 466
My Ride: '03 330Ci
Normally I would agree, but he gained 7 mph..
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