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Old 09-04-2009, 12:56 PM   #301
Owtlaw333
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glovesoff View Post
I'm pretty pissed off.

I need the repair. dreyer and reinbold in Indy have contacted their collision shop to perform the repair. they say their collision shop could take anywhere from a week to a month, they don't know. meanwhile, they don't want to provide me a loaner since I didn't purchase the car from them (bought it on eBay).

I called BMWNA, and they talked to the service manager there, and they still won't do anything for me. how am I supposed to get transportation for "a week to a month" if I don't have my one and only vehicle?

the BMWNA lady even said that they probably don't want to give me a loaner because "they need loaners to give to people who have purchased their cars and done all their service at their dealership". So I said to her "I plan on buying a new vehicle in a few months. the result of this situation and how I am treated as a customer will determine whether or not I purchase another BMW. so you mean BMW NA won't do anything else in this matter to ensure that I remain a BMW customer?"

"unfortunately, no... blah blah blah"

just got $130,000 in inheritance money... I guess BMW doesn't want any part of that.
I wouldn't expect a loaner and they are totally within their rights to not give you one. Imagine if you were a customer of those dealerships and needed repairs and a loaner but were denied one because some other guy who bought their car elsewhere is taking up your spot in line... I'd be pissed if I was that customer.

See if your insurance will cover a loaner.
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Old 09-04-2009, 01:11 PM   #302
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the 2010 problem is one im mitigating by driving the snot monkeys out of my car, and going for the inspection towards the end of the program.. with enough wiggle room to keep myself comfortable
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Old 09-05-2009, 01:35 PM   #303
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just dropped the car off at BMW here in Monterey and Im waiting to see what happens.
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Old 09-05-2009, 01:51 PM   #304
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i set up an appt. as well for Tuesday. the dealer said that if there is subframe damage, they send it out to a body shop. asked if it's ok to have a look at the underside while the car's up in the air, they said no problem.

can someone point me to the post that has detailed pics and parts required for the repair ? if welding is involved, i want to know all the details of how the vehicle is repaired, undebody recoating, etc...

thanks
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Old 09-05-2009, 07:30 PM   #305
YAN-3
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Just got the car back. no issues! all looked good.
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Old 09-05-2009, 07:40 PM   #306
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Just got the car back. no issues! all looked good.
should've waited 11 months! did you check it yourself at all?
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Old 09-05-2009, 07:48 PM   #307
YAN-3
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no, but i talked to the master tech and he said that if in case i hear anything to bring it back and they would inspect it again, or if anything needs to be done, BMW will do it. on a side note, they did say that the cracks only appeared on the early e46 cars with manual gearboxes such as 330i that were driven hard. I have a 05 325i with a slush box, and between them and my personal mechanic in Auburn CA who also works at a BMW stealer-ship says they have yet to see a auto tranny one with this issue.
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Old 09-08-2009, 12:16 PM   #308
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Anybody tried to get the reimbursements for the repair that you've paid out of pocket? I sent all the documents a few weeks ago but still haven't heard anything back. I tried emailing them but no response. The number listed also doesn't give an option to talk to a real person. Just wondering if the lawyer is a scam or not.
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Old 09-08-2009, 12:34 PM   #309
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Has anyone hear from Bradley?

Is the deadline extended or is it still due tomorrow??

Thanks!
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Old 09-08-2009, 02:21 PM   #310
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the deadline isn't until 2010.
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Old 09-09-2009, 07:42 AM   #311
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Originally Posted by ea-sport View Post
Anybody tried to get the reimbursements for the repair that you've paid out of pocket? I sent all the documents a few weeks ago but still haven't heard anything back. I tried emailing them but no response. The number listed also doesn't give an option to talk to a real person. Just wondering if the lawyer is a scam or not.
I sent mine in a good 2 months ago, immediately after I received the letter. No response at all yet. I presume it will take some time to hear back, as it does with all legal matters.
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Old 09-09-2009, 09:25 AM   #312
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I send the most commonly asked questions from this thread to Girard Gibbs LLP. Hope this helps everyone!

How long will it take for a reimbursement claim to be processed?
Quote:
Under the settlement, BMW has 60 days to review claims that have been conditionally approved by the Claims Administrator and to forward reimbursement checks for approved claims. Some additional time will be required for the Claims Administrator to conduct an initial review of the claims, transmit them to BMW, and to mail the reimbursement checks forwarded by BMW. So altogether, class members should allot about 90 days for their claims to be processed.

I should mention, however, that the settlement is not yet final. It has been approved by the Court, but will not become final until the time runs on any potential appeals from that approval (which hopefully will happen next week). If an appeal is filed, BMW would not be obligated to reimburse class members until after the appeal is resolved.
Is there a BMW documented repair process? If so could we get a copy of it? Many of my members are concerned with what the dealership is going to do to their "baby"
Quote:
There is a repair process that BMW provided to its dealers. I have obtained BMWs permission to share it with you, but they stressed that the document is copyrighted and they do not want it posted on the internet. So for those of your members who are interested in the repair procedure, I would recommend that you summarize it for them.
I'm in the process of summarizing the repair document and will post it shortly.

Can someone get their car inspected more than once during the inspection window?
Quote:
Each class member is entitled to a single inspection under the settlement. Some of your members may choose to wait until the end of the inspection window for this reason, but based on our investigation, sub-frame cracking is a gradual problem and not one that would typically show up only suddenly at the end of the inspection period. If a class vehicle is going to suffer from the Sub-Frame Condition, it is likely to have manifested already in the form of small cracking that enlarges over time. It may also be useful for your members to know that because of design changes made by BMW, the incidence of sub-frame cracking is much lower in vehicles manufactured after February 2000.
What sort of warranty is BMW providing on the repair work? Many members are concerned with getting it either inspected or repaired and then having future damage
Quote:
BMWs repair work is governed by the settlement agreement, which requires BMW to repair any vehicle found to be suffering from the Sub-Frame Condition free of charge. If a class member does not believe a repair was performed adequately, one remedy would be to assert a claim for breach of the settlement agreement. Before doing so, however, class members can take advantage of the dispute resolution process built into the settlement agreement, under which a class member may contact BMWs Customer Service Department to informally seek resolution of disputes arising from the inspection or repair of a class vehicle.

While class members do have a remedy if BMW does not adequately repair the Sub-Frame Condition, I should mention that BMWs repair procedure has been very effective to date, and so we do not expect class members to experience future damage after their vehicles are repaired. We have investigated many instances of the Sub-Frame Condition in class vehicles, and few if any BMW owners reported recurring problems after undergoing BMWs repair procedure.
I've also requested information on a suggested course of action for our non-US members and hope to have more information for you soon.

Hope this helps!
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Old 09-09-2009, 01:44 PM   #313
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Good info
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Old 09-09-2009, 08:33 PM   #314
Nick DeZan
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subframe repair pictures

Here are some pictures of what was replaced on my 2000 323ci.
Two of them show the car on a Cellete Bench to keep the body aligned during replacement of the lower panel.
The BMW trained tech said the new panel is much stronger and it also has a 10 lb piece of steel welded to the center of it. Perhaps to reduce noise?
One pic shows how much stuff is removed.
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Old 09-10-2009, 11:26 AM   #315
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thats a lot of work
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Old 09-10-2009, 12:02 PM   #316
wxyzsmitty
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I dropped my car off a week ago to get the repairs done. I called to see how things were going. I was told that its going to take 8 weeks . That's ridiculous 8 weeks without a car, since they wont give me a loaner. I also called BMWNA about not getting a loaner. They told me the same thing. We cant do anything for you. They said its not in the settlement to give you a loaner. How about then getting a rental car to people. I dont care what the car is just give me something to drive. I'm bugged.

Does anyone know what they are replacing? I saw the pictures of the floor being cut out. Is that it? Just a new reinforced frame? They should throw in some new bushings.(only because I think I need new rear bushings)
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Old 09-10-2009, 03:40 PM   #317
zeobia
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BMWNA told me the same thing. I have not taken my 2000 328ci in for repairs yet. I was told that the repairs could not be made until I signed a General Release that reads in part: Customer agrees to keep the existence and terms of thei Agreement confidential. Customer agrees not to reveal the facts leading up to the terms or conditions of this Agreement in any communication form, including, but not limited to, word-of-mouth, print, broadcast or internet. I would like to know if you or anyone else has been asked to sign a similar document.
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Old 09-10-2009, 04:08 PM   #318
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BMW was nice enough to OK me reviewing the dealership service bulletin for the sub-frame repair. I am not legally allowed to post it, but I can summarize it for you. Back story above -> http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showpos...&postcount=312

BMW Technical Service Bulletin SI B41 04 08 - Rear Axle Support Repair Procedure

This bulletin covers all E46 models. BMW states that in some cases the steel body can fracture causing an easily identifiable clicking noise. This noise is most commonly heard when load is placed on the rear sub frame. Cases where this noise is commonly heard include leaving from a stop, engaging forward or reverse or when quickly changing gears.

Visual inspection
To determine if a repair is needed a visual inspection is performed. The inspection focuses on the left rear mounting point for the sub frame. There is no mention of removing the sub frame.

Cracks
If a crack is found it must be documented with a photo that is added to your vehicle file. There are two procedures depending on the size of the crack and the production date.

Procedure A
For cracks less than 20mm and a production date prior to 10/2004

Procedure B
For cracks greater than 20mm
For cracks less than 20mm and a production date of 10/2004 or newer



A. Structural Epoxy
The objective of procedure A is to fill the space between the lower mount point and the trunk floor. The epoxy will strengthen the area and prevent future damage. This procedure requires the car to be stationary for 24 hours after the repair.

It is a two step procedure. Seam sealer is used to create an isolated area under the trunk floor, and then structural epoxy is used to fill that area bonding the sub-frame mount point to the trunk floor.

Steps -
  • Remove the trunk floor lining exposing the metal trunk floor.
  • Identify the work area (I'm going to get some pictures soon).
  • There are three holes needed for the procedure. Hole 1 is covered by a plastic body plug, hole 2 must be drilled with a 10mm stepped bit and hole 3 is covered by a anti-vibration mat that should be removed around the hole.
  • Under the car next to the sub-frame mount there could be a hole (I guess depending on when your car was produced). This hole needs to be taped off or plugged with a body plug to prevent the epoxy from running out.
  • A section of clear tubing is used to create an injector on the end of the seam sealer tube.
  • A tape line should be marked on the clear plastic tubing 4 3/4 of an inch from the end, this will be your insertion depth mark.
  • Insert the clear tube into hole 2 up to the tape mark. There is a hole below hole 2 that you must line the tube up with so it is actually going in another hole and further down into the frame.
  • Inject 12mm of seam sealer into hole 2.
  • Insert the tube into hole 3. There is no sub-hole so this is straight forward.
  • Inject 2mm of seam sealer into hole 3.
  • Wait at least 10 minutes for the seam sealer to set before continuing.
  • At this point there is a sealed area for the structural epoxy to be inserted in.
  • Prepare the structural epoxy cartridge and warm the epoxy to ensure it is flowing properly into the void (created above with the seam sealer).
  • Feed the extension tube on the epoxy cartridge into hole 1. Below hole 1 there is another hole that the extension tube must be feed into as well.
  • Inject the entire contents of the epoxy pack into the cavity.
  • Remove the flexible extension tube from the cartridge and inject another epoxy pack into hole 1.
  • Clean up any epoxy while it is still soft and fill the three holes in the trunk with body plugs.
  • Put everything back together and allow the epoxy to cure for at least 24 hours. DO NOT move the car until the epoxy is fully cured.



B. Replacement of Rear Axle Carrier Support
This repair should only be done by a BMW operated or BMW recommended body shop and requires a four wheel alignment after. The repairs are outline in another document that is already floating around the internet so it should be fine to share. You can see just how dramatic the repairs are here -> http://www.E46Fanatics.com/pdf/BMW-E...for-Cracks.pdf

As you can see from the document and the pictures from Nick DeZan post this is a big project! Basically the entire sub-frame section of the car is removed and replaced with a new (stronger?) section. It is part one in this diagram.


This is clearly a huge repair so several weeks or longer of turn around wouldn't surprise me.



Hope this helps everyone have a better understanding of what is happening to their baby!

Tim
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Old 09-11-2009, 10:51 AM   #319
nugg_dawg
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My local stealer claims I need the "letter" for them to take a look at my M3. Is this true? If so how do I go about getting a copy of this letter. The person I purchased the car from hasn't gotten back to me.


John
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Old 09-11-2009, 03:08 PM   #320
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An update on my broken gas tank. Sorry it is a little late. The local BMW stealership here did the subframe in eight working days. I was also offered a loaner. I did not have to sign any waiver or form of any kind. I had purchased the vehicle 2 days prior to the repairs. Originally it went in for an oil change and a noise from the rear. They did the courtesy check and fixed it on site at there own b/s. Hence why it was done so quickly. I believe the repairs were done in a timely manner. I work at a dealership(not BMW) and we have a b/s here and I could see it taking up to 10 or 12 working days. But 8 weeks is a little outrageous, unless an amatuer is doing it. So when I picked the vehicle up I went to get gas and they broke the gas tank when they reinstalled it. I took the vehicle back for that repair. I just put it on a lift a few days ago and had one of our b/s techs look over it. He couldn't really see to much with everything re-attached. I guess it is alright. You can see the sealant they put on the inside of the spare tire well. I can figure out that the used a torch to cut the old sheet metal out, b/c now I have torch sut all over the inside of my vehicle(thats a whole issue of itself). I just want to explain my personal experience with this issue. I have yet to get the rest of the gas owed to be and a clean car. I am going back on 9/15 to get the things promised and owed to me. I was not a disgruntal customer, I didn't raise my voice or threaten anyone, yet. This will be the third time I am going there to get what should of been done right the first time. Hopefully everything will work out. If not I will have to turn into that guy, lol. Good luck with all of you on this issue.
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