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General E46 Forum
This is the place to get answers, opinions and everything you need related to your E46 (sedan, coupe, convertible and wagon) BMW!

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Old 06-07-2009, 03:34 PM   #221
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Synthetic Oils do not break down like dino' oil. The cylinder blow-by and dirt in the oil is what causes engine wear. The blow-by is different for every car, depending on how well the tolerances are to perfect to begin with, and over time. Some cars may actually improve with age as things settle in (it took my Prius 12,000 miles). The filter is what makes the difference. If it can get the little particles out, then the oil is good for 45,000+ miles. If it can't, then it just needs to be changed very often, say every 3,000-5,000 miles.

Oil Filters are another thread. I just wonder why the BMW ones cost so much when the manufacturer (such as Fram) has the same filter material as the other brands of cars, and the BMW's doesn't even have the steel shell. I always feel like I am being ripped off!
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Old 06-07-2009, 03:59 PM   #222
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I was searching to find out what research shows regarding this matter and i found a product developed by the army:
http://www.intellistick.com/purchase.php I wonder if anyone has it and can tell us around what mileage recomends oil change on e46.
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Old 06-07-2009, 04:10 PM   #223
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Originally Posted by immigrant View Post
I was searching to find out what research shows regarding this matter and i found a product developed by the army:
http://www.intellistick.com/purchase.php I wonder if anyone has it and can tell us around what mileage recomends oil change on e46.
I was searching on your search and found oils were good for 30k-40k miles as long as contaminants were kept out. So one notch towards my 45k change interval.

http://www.cbs12.com/news/filter-471...icrogreen.html
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Old 06-07-2009, 04:14 PM   #224
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Huh? Link please. Either way, are you his advocate?
I'm an advocate of discussion, especially on discussion boards.
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Old 06-07-2009, 04:32 PM   #225
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1) even though your data is inconclusive (and even if was conclusive), it's based on m1 0w-40, running in a car with twice the mileage as mine, and running where ever in the US you are at. so basically, if you live next to jeffro and have a MY2000 328 with 120k+ on the clock and are running mobil 1 0w-40, you can then follow jeffro's recommendations. (i would if this was the case).
Then what do you have to say about this:

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthr...562&highlight=

Your car uses the exact same algorithm to determine oil interval as every other M54 car.

I think the service indicator is an excellent tool to determine exactly how much wear your oil is experiencing, i just have my doubts about whether or not it is designed to actually coincide with the performance lifespan of the oil.

I'm simply trying to find the number at which the oil really needs changing. If that means letting it count all the way to 0, then props to BMW. If it seems that the oil consistently needs changing when the SI has reached 6k remaining instead of 0, then i would have to assume that the remaining 6k were added for economic reasons.

That's all i'm trying to do: Find the correct (or as close as i can manage) number to change oil at on the SI.
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Old 06-07-2009, 04:38 PM   #226
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Synthetic Oils do not break down like dino' oil. The cylinder blow-by and dirt in the oil is what causes engine wear.
Cylinder blow by (fuel dilution) and dirt are 2 of many things degrading the oil. Synthetic oils do break down. Some more than others, but they all do.

At 5400 miles, my oil had sheared from a 14 cst@100C to a 12.13. The TBN also dropped from 11.3 to 4.8

Fuel dilution, silica, and insolubles were all very low.

I believe i've posted the chart in this thread already, but its in another thread as well. just search "used oil analysis"
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Old 06-07-2009, 05:27 PM   #227
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Alright, second try:

bmwbun: BMW High Performance Synthetic 5w-30 and individually determining service interval based on how hard the engine is working and mileage
cngzsn: Any LL-01 approved oil and 7500 mile service interval
GoingNuts: BMW High Performance Synthetic 5w-30 and 45,000 mile service interval
jeffro3000: Any LL-01 approved oil and currently going for 10k service interval
mkodama: Any LL-01 or LL-04 approved oil and follow service interval timer





Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffro3000 View Post
Miles here's the advertisement that goingnuts has based his entire argument on:

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/attachm...1&d=1241210919
Now let's drop this whole 30k thing unless anyone has any real world, non-advertisement, information on it.




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Thank you

I thought it was going to be a more technical data sheet, not a advertisement.
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Old 06-07-2009, 06:08 PM   #228
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jeffro3000: Any LL-01 approved oil and currently going for 10k service interval
I'm actually not going for any interval in particular yet. Not until i have an idea of the condition of the oil. I'll send in another sample around 8.5k and see where the oil is. If it's already shot, then i went too far and i'll adjust on the next fill. If it's still good then i'll leave it in longer, depending on how much life is likely left in it.

Since it seems that mobil 1 0w-40 is the most popularly used LL-01 oil, i'd like to have accurate information on it, even though i'll be using GC next.

Last edited by jeffro3000; 06-07-2009 at 06:10 PM.
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Old 06-07-2009, 06:10 PM   #229
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Ok, third try:

bmwbun: BMW High Performance Synthetic 5w-30 and individually determining service interval based on how hard the engine is working and mileage
cngzsn: Any LL-01 approved oil and 7500 mile service interval
GoingNuts: BMW High Performance Synthetic 5w-30 and 45,000 mile service interval
jeffro3000: Any LL-01 approved oil and currently determining oil change interval
mkodama: Any LL-01 or LL-04 approved oil and follow service interval timer
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Old 06-07-2009, 06:12 PM   #230
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What are the thoughts on the 12 month or 24 month oil change intervals if mileage is kept low? Purely for making money or is there any detrimental effects?
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Old 06-07-2009, 06:16 PM   #231
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Worst thread ever

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Old 06-07-2009, 06:18 PM   #232
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There is one thing that i do know for sure. Unless there is something wrong with your engine (excessive blow-by, wear metals, antifreeze, etc.), the 5k OCI is not the optimum interval. There is plenty of life left in the oil, and tribo films. Changing the oil at this point would start the filming over again, wasting what protection you still had in the last fill.


If you want to see the results, search "used oil analysis" in general forum.

Also, the next sample may or may not indicate the same thing about 7.5k, which seems to be the most widely accepted for some reason.
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Old 06-07-2009, 06:19 PM   #233
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Best thread ever


Quote:
Originally Posted by mkodama View Post
What are the thoughts on the 12 month or 24 month oil change intervals if mileage is kept low? Purely for making money or is there any detrimental effects?
Me? I have no idea lol. I dont really see how age in itself would affect anything, as long as there are enough acidity reducers still active in the oil to keep it from eating things... lol

shortyb probably knows something though.
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Old 06-07-2009, 07:34 PM   #234
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Ok, third try:

bmwbun: BMW High Performance Synthetic 5w-30 and individually determining service interval based on how hard the engine is working and mileage
It seems that everyone but Miles understands that that is what your car's computer calculates.



Sniffn' the model glue.

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Old 06-07-2009, 07:42 PM   #235
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It seems that everyone but Miles understands that that is what your car's computer calculates.



Sniffn' the model glue.

Dude, I asked you, and that was your response. Not "I think the car's computer interval is best". You need to work on making your sentences more concise and removing a bunch of the BS.

I find it funny how much we argue bmwbun for believe in pretty much the same thing.
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Old 06-07-2009, 07:45 PM   #236
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4th attempt.

bmwbun: BMW High Performance Synthetic 5w-30 and follow BMW's service interval timer
cngzsn: Any LL-01 approved oil and 7500 mile service interval
GoingNuts: BMW High Performance Synthetic 5w-30 and 45,000 mile service interval
jeffro3000: Any LL-01 approved oil and currently determining oil change interval
mkodama: Any LL-01 or LL-04 approved oil and follow BMW's service interval timer
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Old 06-08-2009, 06:19 AM   #237
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4th attempt.

bmwbun: BMW High Performance Synthetic 5w-30 and follow BMW's service interval timer
Still not completely correct.

BMW has an additional criterion for oil change. If after the earth travels completely around the sun one time, and your car's computer does not yet indicate the need for an oil change, you should change it anyway. I agree with their added criterion.

Last edited by bmwbun; 06-08-2009 at 06:35 AM.
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Old 06-08-2009, 08:06 AM   #238
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Originally Posted by jeffro3000 View Post
Then what do you have to say about this:

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthr...562&highlight=

Your car uses the exact same algorithm to determine oil interval as every other M54 car.

I think the service indicator is an excellent tool to determine exactly how much wear your oil is experiencing, i just have my doubts about whether or not it is designed to actually coincide with the performance lifespan of the oil.

I'm simply trying to find the number at which the oil really needs changing. If that means letting it count all the way to 0, then props to BMW. If it seems that the oil consistently needs changing when the SI has reached 6k remaining instead of 0, then i would have to assume that the remaining 6k were added for economic reasons.

That's all i'm trying to do: Find the correct (or as close as i can manage) number to change oil at on the SI.
that can not be used as a counter to my statement. basically the service indicator is based on fuel consumption only. fuel consumption can not be used alone to determine when an oil change is needed. there's more to the story than that and you know it.

let's bring back the scenario that cngzsn brought up (which i noticed you never had any input on except for the first statement...you were too busy telling goingnuts to "prove it"):

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffro3000 View Post
This is why the service indicator counts mileage based on fuel consumption, not actual mileage. Harder driving = less mpg = more frequent oil changes.

BMW may not be a perfect car company, but they're way ahead of you on this.
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But then the question is, since the countdown timer only depends on the # of gallons of fuel consumed, what is the difference between consuming more fuel via driving hard (affecting oil life) and doing the same because of, say, a bad O2 sensor (not affecting oil life)?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkodama View Post
I'm having a hard time visualizing that comparison, mainly because the oxygen sensors are only able to adjust fuel maps by a small amount. I'm pretty sure the limit of fuel adjustment is under 10% of the preset values. Anything higher causes a CEL.

The way I see it, the the way to get the lowest mpg is 100% throttle and at high RPMs, like at a track event. There are some of the highest loads on the engine and highest temperatures during these conditions, which are things that break oil down(to my knowledge). On the other hand, traveling 65 on the freeway is the best way to get the best mpg and conveniently, these conditions have some of the lowest loads and, by my guess, would be easiest on the oil. Lots of city driving with stop and go makes bad mpg so the countdown timer would run out faster as well, just like in the first track event scenario.

I'm having a much harder time finding a flaw basing oil changes off gas consumption than miles on the odometer.
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Oxygen sensor is just one example of getting a low mpg. Combine one with other factors that might result in a low mpg, and you might get close to comparing it with "hard" or "city" driving. What I am trying to say is:

1. You drive hard in the city, you get 15 mpg.

2. You have a bad O2 sensor (say you don't care about that CEL light), your tires are at 20psi, etc. and you still get 15mpg.

Both will result in your counter going to zero at 7500 miles, but in the second one, your oil might still be good for another few thousand miles. How would the counter know the difference in terms of oil life?

That's my point
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Old 06-08-2009, 10:54 AM   #239
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that can not be used as a counter to my statement. basically the service indicator is based on fuel consumption only. fuel consumption can not be used alone to determine when an oil change is needed. there's more to the story than that and you know it.

let's bring back the scenario that cngzsn brought up (which i noticed you never had any input on except for the first statement...you were too busy telling goingnuts to "prove it"):
You forgot one quote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by shortyb View Post
In this scenario, it wouldn't. But the SI would "err" on the side of safety.
Using the service indicator is a MUCH better means of determining oil change intervals than anything else available, hence why BMW uses it in every car. Mileage alone isn't anywhere near reliable, and there's no other alternative so far. The only doubt i have is the interval that it's pre set to count down from. I believe it may need to be shorter. Like i said earlier, just letting it count down to a different number other than 0 may be better. It's only a basic change. The principle is the same as BMW intended, just a different number. It seems like you're disagreeing with BMW's system more than you are with me.
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Old 06-08-2009, 11:24 AM   #240
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Miles here's the advertisement that goingnuts has based his entire argument on:



Now let's drop this whole 30k thing unless anyone has any real world, non-advertisement, information on it.




"Free flowing and run cooler"
The problem with the Edge product GoingNuts has based his change interval (and beyond)on, is that its not available in the US. We get 5W-30 and 10W-30 Edge. Neither of these is LL-01, ACEA-A3, and with viscosities in the 9.8 cSt @100C range, neither would be suitable in our cars if following recommended guidelines.

http://www.castrol.com/liveassets/bp...strol_EDGE.pdf

Read the fine print and we can only go "up to" 15K or one year, whichever comes first .

Guess when we argue drain intervals based on manufacturer's claims (Castrol) we need to compare apples to nuts .
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