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Old 06-03-2009, 11:01 PM   #41
330i ZHP
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i am confused - bmw said my motor was lifetime fill
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Old 06-03-2009, 11:05 PM   #42
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i am confused - bmw said my motor was lifetime fill
that means your engine will run perfect for 15 years. if you drive 1k miles per year
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Old 06-03-2009, 11:07 PM   #43
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ah shucks, i thought they said at least 100k +
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Old 06-03-2009, 11:08 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by 330i ZHP View Post
ah shucks, i thought they said at least 100k +
Only for you. We can't all have TSs on all our cars
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Old 06-03-2009, 11:10 PM   #45
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Re-read my post. No where in there did I say I knew it all...or anything for that matter. I simply stated that I've always changed my oil at 5k and in all my years and many cars, not to mention the 4 I have right now, 2 of which are over 100k miles and 1 at over 200k miles and all run like a champ, I see no need to change my habits due to your article.

And if you'd get off the articles' nuts, I can quote parts of it just like you, it's just that you choose to focus on certain sentences that lead you to say,
"Those of you who change oil every 3-5k to be on the "safe side" are being counterproductive" when NO WHERE in that article does it say that.

Here are the counter highlights:

Meh, no need to debate this further with you. Like I said originally, my cars run great.


Seems you're lacking in the mathematics department as well as the logic department.

Lets see, so the benefits are observed as early as 3k miles? So logic would tell you to.... go ahead and change it then? wait that doesnt seem right. I'd rather keep it in and actually reap the benefits. Well how about 5k then. With this drain you get 2k good miles worth of added protection. Great! Oh wait, that was after 3k miles of the "FRESH OIL" disadvantage . Moving on. How about 7.5k? You get 4.5k miles of added protection with this drain interval, with the same 3k mile "break-in period." See where i'm going with this? I'll keep going if need be. It may take awhile for it to sink in.

The longer the drain interval (up to a certain point), the more the increased protection vs. "FRESH OIL" ratio increases. This is the entire purpose behind the oil analyses i've done. To find the maximum length i can leave the oil in (past the 3k mark) to maximize my protection.

I guess i was wrong in assuming everyone on this forum had a basic understanding of math and logic...

I do, however, agree with your next to last sentence. You're done debating alright.
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Old 06-03-2009, 11:12 PM   #46
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Only for you. We can't all have TSs on all our cars
if i didnt think they would screw anything up - i would like to take one of the cars in for the free yearly service and see what they say
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Old 06-03-2009, 11:14 PM   #47
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we are talking about reputation here not about responsability
Their "reputation" is based on unscheduled services performed under warranty. Thats where those "Most reliable brands" lists come from. A large portion of buyers are badge buyers anyways who wont keep the car past warranty. As long as it continues to perform through that period, they may as well buy another one.

Personally, i didnt buy my BMW from BMW. I bought it from another guy, who bought it from another guy, who bought it from BMW. They aren't looking to please people like me. They're after those new car buyers who drop 50k on the new ones. To do that, they simply dont need to offer as much maintenance as we may think is required.
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Old 06-03-2009, 11:15 PM   #48
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It's refreshing to see empirical evidence on a subject for a change, thanks for posting. And let's not discourage GoingNuts from posting. He's got his charm.
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Old 06-03-2009, 11:21 PM   #49
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It's refreshing to see empirical evidence on a subject for a change, thanks for posting. And let's not discourage GoingNuts from posting. He's got his charm.
And on that high note, I'm going to bed.

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Old 06-03-2009, 11:25 PM   #50
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Their "reputation" is based on unscheduled services performed under warranty. Thats where those "Most reliable brands" lists come from. A large portion of buyers are badge buyers anyways who wont keep the car past warranty. As long as it continues to perform through that period, they may as well buy another one.

Personally, i didnt buy my BMW from BMW. I bought it from another guy, who bought it from another guy, who bought it from BMW. They aren't looking to please people like me. They're after those new car buyers who drop 50k on the new ones. To do that, they simply dont need to offer as much maintenance as we may think is required.
i drive my 99 323i with 85k miles and I bought it from another guy, who bought it from another guy, who bought it from BMW, and it runs so smooth that i cant even hear my engine when at idle. and then i drive my cousins 2007 ford taurus with 25k miles and i can definetly say that my bimmer runs much better than that. i think thats how you build reputation. under warranty even chinesse cars will run good. and when i`ll have a better job and can afford a new car i will definetly buy a BMW

Last edited by eu_miki_80@yahoo.c; 06-03-2009 at 11:28 PM.
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Old 06-04-2009, 12:11 AM   #51
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Seems you're lacking in the mathematics department as well as the logic department.

Lets see, so the benefits are observed as early as 3k miles? So logic would tell you to.... go ahead and change it then? wait that doesnt seem right. I'd rather keep it in and actually reap the benefits. Well how about 5k then. With this drain you get 2k good miles worth of added protection. Great! Oh wait, that was after 3k miles of the "FRESH OIL" disadvantage . Moving on. How about 7.5k? You get 4.5k miles of added protection with this drain interval, with the same 3k mile "break-in period." See where i'm going with this? I'll keep going if need be. It may take awhile for it to sink in.

The longer the drain interval (up to a certain point), the more the increased protection vs. "FRESH OIL" ratio increases. This is the entire purpose behind the oil analyses i've done. To find the maximum length i can leave the oil in (past the 3k mark) to maximize my protection.

I guess i was wrong in assuming everyone on this forum had a basic understanding of math and logic...

I do, however, agree with your next to last sentence. You're done debating alright.
You can stop arguing on behalf of this article like you wrote it yourself.
You can wait your 15k and change your oil, I can change mine at 5, it doesn't matter.
Again, this has been debated for ages. So here's my counter, as well as all your counters.



http://lmgtfy.com/?q=How+often+shoul...ange+my+oil%3F
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Old 06-04-2009, 12:18 AM   #52
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if i didnt think they would screw anything up - i would like to take one of the cars in for the free yearly service and see what they say
A hidden cam video would be great
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Old 06-04-2009, 12:34 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by TKC View Post
Re-read my post. No where in there did I say I knew it all...or anything for that matter. I simply stated that I've always changed my oil at 5k and in all my years and many cars, not to mention the 4 I have right now, 2 of which are over 100k miles and 1 at over 200k miles and all run like a champ, I see no need to change my habits due to your article.

And if you'd get off the articles' nuts, I can quote parts of it just like you, it's just that you choose to focus on certain sentences that lead you to say,
"Those of you who change oil every 3-5k to be on the "safe side" are being counterproductive" when NO WHERE in that article does it say that.

Here are the counter highlights:

Meh, no need to debate this further with you. Like I said originally, my cars run great.

AGREED. 5K is a good number. I think 3K is overkill unless you are really hammering on it.

The test "fleet" consisted of 3 cars run in the desert.
There was no mention of severity of use or other factors that come into play.

Engine oil is exposed to toxins from combustion as well as metal wear.
The exposure to combustion is the main reason for more frequent changes.

5K is a good number. 15K is not too bright for a daily. So your oil "may" lubricate better. Too bad it wont flow and be there (at high RPM's) because your oil filter is clogged. Ever see what a spun rod bearing looks like?

I will take the article in for good information but I am not changing my oil at 15K. I have done 7 or so.
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Old 06-04-2009, 12:39 AM   #54
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i changed my oil like 6000 miles ago

i just beat a new m3 on the highway
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Old 06-04-2009, 03:10 AM   #55
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The abstract mentioned by the OP says:

"These improvements were observed as early as the 3,000 mile drain interval and continued to the 15,000 mile drain interval."

Their comment would appear to support BMW's target for oil change interval.

It's a pity they didn't run the "fleet" of three cars to longer mileage intervals. We might have learned that the improvements observed continued after 15,001 miles.

I wonder at what mileage interval the improvements are no longer observed.

I wonder what happens to those observed improvements when the vehicle approaches Castrol's 30,000 mile figure.
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Old 06-04-2009, 03:21 AM   #56
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I thought my shock absorbers were lifetime fill?
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Old 06-04-2009, 03:21 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by bmwbun View Post
The abstract mentioned by the OP says:

"These improvements were observed as early as the 3,000 mile drain interval and continued to the 15,000 mile drain interval."

Their comment would appear to support BMW's target for oil change interval.

It's a pity they didn't run the "fleet" of three cars to longer mileage intervals. We might have learned that the improvements observed continued after 15,001 miles.

I wonder at what mileage interval the improvements are no longer observed.

I wonder what happens to those observed improvements when the vehicle approaches Castrol's 30,000 mile figure.
Agreed, I'd be interested as well to see how long the oil would be usable.
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Old 06-04-2009, 03:24 AM   #58
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very usful article. thanks for sharing.
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Old 06-04-2009, 03:33 AM   #59
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Audi and Mercedes claim that their cars have lifetime transmission fluid.
If Germans say 15k oil change, then there is a reason for it.
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Lifetime tranny fluid is no longer BMW's claim, so I don't know what you're talking about
Mercedes I know for sure has retracted their claim as well about lifetime transmission fluid and at first went to 100k miles and now says to do it ever 39k miles. The problem though is that these facts are only published in TSBs and aren't made readily available to the public or even to every service adviser. Could you imagine how pissed you'd be if you actually took their advice that the fluid could last forever and then your transmission died but you found out that your OEM was now saying to change it every 39k miles there would be more than a few lawsuits
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Old 06-04-2009, 04:01 AM   #60
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Mercedes owners must be smarter than BMW owners. They can keep track of 39K, 78K, 117K, 156K mile fluid changes.

I'll bet they get transmission dipsticks too.

Lucky bastards.
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