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General E46 Forum
This is the place to get answers, opinions and everything you need related to your E46 (sedan, coupe, convertible and wagon) BMW!

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Old 06-06-2009, 02:25 PM   #21
braymond141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acarder View Post
Remember though that the M54 and M62 engines are very different.. I'm not saying that it wouldn't work straight up on an M54 engine (because it obviously does), but more just because it holds up on the M62 doesn't mean it will work as well on the M54.


If you can tune the M54 you can tune the M62. It's not some imaginary blockade from one to the other. LPG can be put on any engine as long as you provide tuning... although I'm unsure how it handles on turbo or supercharger setups.
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Old 06-07-2009, 07:31 AM   #22
dinac
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I was always under the assumption it was lower, but you might be right as i'm just working off memory.

Hmm, you might be right actually. Looks like its 108 RON.. Either way, i'm still not going to recommend it. These cars were made to run on good ol' petrol, not silly propane and I can anticipate you'd have quite a few problems down the line in regards to engine wear and decreased performance. The availability of LPG at gas stations should be taken into account as well. Just because it can be done doesn't generally mean it should be done. As I said before, get a less complex car with a less complex engine/DME/monitoring systems (i.e. Carby like the video said, no VANOS/VANOS equivalent, low compression ratio) if you want to do it.
u r all the way wrong about lpg
every petrol station has lpg , ok not every but lets say 95%
engine wear is smaller then the petrol and the engine can last more
there is no decrased performance in today lpg systems (go search and take a look at dyno tests)

Go learn more about it :
http://www.go-lpg.co.uk/benefit.html
http://www.autoedge.com.au/faqs.html
http://www.e-lpg.com/faqauto.asp

m54 engine is not complex engine as u said
go take a look @ TSI -TFSI or similar complex - even on that engine u can put lpg , BUT not on everyone


Quote:
Originally Posted by Safar View Post
Highly popular conversion in Europe, especially on imported American muscle cars, but this is the first time I've seen it done on a more sophisticated engine!
(no offense but I guess I can safely say that a 1980's Corvette does not have any form of sophistication to the engine... 200hp from 350ci (lol?))

Since we pay more than $7 per gallon of petrol in the Netherlands you can imagine that driving an old muscle car isn't a lot of fun for your wallet. We have our own natural gas reserves so lpg costs not even a third of that
But I'd be interested in seeing how this works out for you in the long run. How much does the whole system weigh?

again : it is not sophisticated engine for conversion
here in CRO gallon of petrol is 5,8$, and have many conversion that running for years on lpg, so thats not the problem
Some Japanese car as i heard have problems with it, and need Duralube - thats $150 more in installation

Weight hm .. i dont know, i assume that is not over 50kgs more , i will know tomorow when i go "A-test" it
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Old 06-07-2009, 07:35 AM   #23
Rene325ci
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Originally Posted by braymond141 View Post
Croatia gas price per gallon is: $4.81 us dollar conversion
Croatia LPG price per gallon is: $2.43 us dollar conversion

He's using 15% more fuel to drive tho, so his costs are increased on the LPG mpg rate. It's still cheaper than gasoline, said to be as powerful (doubt it), and very clean.

I used to drive an LPG powered dump truck back when i started college and trust me when i say it was still powerfull.
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Old 06-07-2009, 07:37 AM   #24
dinac
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here it is the rest of car :

Evo ga

2003.g.
330i, 3.0i, 231ks
"MTech 2"
Quote:
Type code EV51
Type 330I (EUR)
Dev. series E46 (4FL)
Line 3
Body type LIM
Steering LL
Door count 4
Engine M54
Cubical capacity 3.00
Power 170
Transmision HECK
Gearbox MECH
Colour BLACK SAPPHIRE METALLIC (475)
Upholstery STOFF LASER/ANTHRAZIT (G7AT)
Prod. date 2002-12-02
Order options
No. Description
167 EU4 EXHAUST EMISSIONS NORM
210 DYNAMIC STABILITY CONTROL (DSC)
226 SPORTS SUSPENSION SETTINGS
249 MULTI-FUNCTION FOR STEERING WHEEL
261 SIDE AIRBAG FOR REAR PASSENGERS
313 EXTERIOR MIRROR PACKAGE
320 MODEL DESIGNATION, DELETION
338 M SPORTS PACKAGE II
415 SUNBLIND FOR REAR WINDOW
423 FLOOR MATS, VELOUR
428 WARNING TRIANGLE
431 INTERIOR RR VW MIRROR W AUT ANTI-DAZZLE
459 SEAT ADJUSTM., ELECTR. W. MEMORY
465 THROUGH-LOAD SYSTEM
481 SPORT SEATS F DRIVER/FRONT PASSENGER
488 LUMBAR SUPPORT DRIVER/FRONT PASSENGER
494 SEAT HEATING F DRIVER/FRONT PASSENGER
502 HEADLIGHT WASHER SYSTEM
508 PARK DISTANCE CONTROL (PDC)
521 RAIN SENSOR
522 XENON LIGHT
534 AUTOMATIC AIR CONDITIONING
609 NAVIGATION SYSTEM PROFESSIONAL
612 BMW ASSIST
630 CAR TELEPHONE WITH CORDLESS RECEIVER
672 CD CHANGER BMW FOR 6 CDS
676 HIFI LOUDSPEAKER SYSTEM
710 M LEATHER STEERING WHEEL
716 M AERODYNAMICS PACKAGE II
760 INDIVIDUAL HIGH-GLOSS SATIN CHROME
772 INTERIOR TRIM ALU BLACK CUBE
775 INDIVIDUAL ROOF-LINING ANTHRACITE
785 WHITE DIRECTION INDICATOR LIGHTS
788 M LT/ALY WHEELS
801 GERMANY VERSION
863 EUROPE/DEALER DIRECTORY
879 GERMAN/OWNERS HANDBOOK/SERVICE BOOKLET
915 BODY SKIN CONSERVATION, DELETION
972 COMFORT PACKAGE
981 COMFORT PLUS PACKAGE
Series options
No. Description
411 WINDOW LIFTS, ELECTRIC
473 ARMREST, FRONT
520 FOGLIGHTS
548 SPEEDOMETER WITH KILOMETER READING
550 ON-BOARD COMPUTER
832 BATTERY IN LUGGAGE COMPARTMENT
851 LANGUAGE VERSION GERMAN







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Last edited by dinac; 06-07-2009 at 07:42 AM.
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Old 06-07-2009, 08:50 AM   #25
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Good job. A very popular mod in Europe, althought to be honest I only saw it working on mercedes and some older BMWs. Good to know that it works on our cars as well.
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Old 06-07-2009, 11:53 AM   #26
albeee
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sorry to be off-topic, but that is some tasty interior trim
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Old 06-07-2009, 08:04 PM   #27
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Is this a complete LPG conversion, or are you running dual fuel? If you run out of propane, can you switch back to gasoline? I was always under the impression that only carbureted engines could run a dual fuel setup.

Also, where did you put the fill valve?

None the less, I'm impressed.
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Old 06-07-2009, 11:30 PM   #28
Acarder
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Originally Posted by dinac View Post
u r all the way wrong about lpg
every petrol station has lpg , ok not every but lets say 95%
engine wear is smaller then the petrol and the engine can last more
there is no decrased performance in today lpg systems (go search and take a look at dyno tests)

Go learn more about it :
http://www.go-lpg.co.uk/benefit.html
http://www.autoedge.com.au/faqs.html
http://www.e-lpg.com/faqauto.asp

m54 engine is not complex engine as u said
go take a look @ TSI -TFSI or similar complex - even on that engine u can put lpg , BUT not on everyone
I said the M54 engine was very complex, or at least thats what I meant. I'd like to see some dynos actually because to be blunt I don't believe that theres no loss of power, but I can't find any for the E46. I also don't believe that the engine works better with it then it does with petrol. The engine wear stuff is correct, but the plain and simple truth is that if you change your oil regularly and keep everything clean and in good condition you don't have to worry about carbon deposits and oil degradation. With LPG, you have to worry about valve seat recession a lot more, valve wear, and head damage. I'd rather have sludge build up (which doesn't happen if you change your oil often) then a gradual loss of compression. To be honest, I don't know how the M54 engine will hold up and i'd assume thats why it hasn't been tried before. It could be perfectly fine, it could be a prime candidate.

And i'd be happy to learn more about LPG, just don't direct me to websites that are run by people selling the damn product. Reading that is like believing that cold air intakes can add 10-18hp

And just because you can tune an M62 does NOT mean you can tune a M54, let alone install a LPG system on it. The V8 would have an entirely different valve system that is more then likely a lot stronger then the M54's because of the higher stock power that it has to give out. They're made by the same company and thats where the similarities stop. I don't believe anyone would be making a production tune for the LPG M54, much less anyone doing a custom job for a thousand euros.

But regardless of all that it works, its running and its saving you fuel money so who cares. At the end of the day, thats all that matters. And on top of that, you can report back and tell us how everything is holding up. Get a compression test in 6 months to a year and if everything looks fine then i guess the M54 can take it

Last edited by Acarder; 06-07-2009 at 11:53 PM.
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Old 06-07-2009, 11:42 PM   #29
SeanC
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very nice job!
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Old 06-08-2009, 12:33 AM   #30
dinac
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renboy View Post
Is this a complete LPG conversion, or are you running dual fuel? If you run out of propane, can you switch back to gasoline? I was always under the impression that only carbureted engines could run a dual fuel setup.

Also, where did you put the fill valve?

None the less, I'm impressed.
yes i can switch to gasoline at any time
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Old 06-08-2009, 12:37 AM   #31
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yes i can switch to gasoline at any time
How does that work? Do they install another ECU that can change the engine management software at the press of a button or is it just for emergencies?
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Old 06-08-2009, 01:14 AM   #32
dinac
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lpg system has its own ECU
noo it is not for emergencies situations, u just can switch and drive on gasoline
Start of engine is alway on gasoline, till the engine reach 40degree C, and past 1600o/min, then ecu switch on lpg
On cold start it is after 2 or 3 mins @ ambient 25oC
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Old 06-08-2009, 01:26 AM   #33
Acarder
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lpg system has its own ECU
noo it is not for emergencies situations, u just can switch and drive on gasoline
Start of engine is alway on gasoline, till the engine reach 40degree C, and past 1600o/min, then ecu switch on lpg
On cold start it is after 2 or 3 mins @ ambient 25oC
That seems to invalidate your argument about reduced engine wear

but yes yes ill stop haha, very interesting actually. Any reason you don't start it with LPG? Can it start with LPG?
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Old 06-08-2009, 02:32 AM   #34
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I had an LPG in my old opel vectra in Europe. No ecu reprogramming was required, but there was a noticeable loss of power and occasionaly the ecu was throwing a check engine light at low RPMs. Sometimes I had to switch to gasoline to get enough power to pass a slower car, after which I was switching back to LPG. All that while driving, no problems at all.
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Old 06-08-2009, 06:37 AM   #35
dinac
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That seems to invalidate your argument about reduced engine wear

but yes yes ill stop haha, very interesting actually. Any reason you don't start it with LPG? Can it start with LPG?

that i dont know , but i will ask
i hear that some car can start on lpg, but dont know why
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Old 06-08-2009, 07:00 AM   #36
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You can start it on LPG but the car will be very sluggish, as the gas wont create as much energy combusting at lower temp.

My question is if you can afford a pretty new BMW, why would you worry about saving on fuel. Every time i see a V6 or V8 engines converted i always ponder... why would you even get a car with a bigger engine if you're worried about fuel costs

I drove cars w/ diesel, LPG, CNG, Hybrid, and gasoline, and conversions on engines are generally a bad idea. There are cars that come with factory installed LPG and CNG conversions, but are still far from ideal when it comes to performance on gasoline or diesel.

Last edited by kal44; 06-08-2009 at 07:03 AM.
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Old 06-08-2009, 07:08 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by kal44 View Post
You can start it on LPG but the car will be very sluggish, as the gas wont create as much energy combusting at lower temp.

My question is if you can afford a pretty new BMW, why would you worry about saving on fuel. Every time i see a V6 or V8 engines converted i always ponder... why would you even get a car with a bigger engine if you're worried about fuel costs

I drove cars w/ diesel, LPG, CNG, Hybrid, and gasoline, and conversions on engines are generally a bad idea. There are cars that come with factory installed LPG and CNG conversions, but are still far from ideal when it comes to performance on gasoline or diesel.
To be honest, if you could get the same power out of those V8 engines with a fuel that costs half as much, and has next to no emissions, with the same power I can see why. Thats really the reason I don't believe that these engines can produce the same numbers, because it wouldn't make sense and everyone would convert. Hell, i'd use diesel if I could get a high rev limit and the same horsepower out of it.

And do any cars come factory for LPG?

Also, look these cars aren't race cars or big huge 6.2l turbo V8's or ///M's - they're meant to be daily drivers. Everyone wants a fuel efficient (or cheap fueled) car for their daily driver, and the OP who wanted a 330 now has both power and fuel efficiency.
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Old 06-08-2009, 08:09 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by kal44 View Post
You can start it on LPG but the car will be very sluggish, as the gas wont create as much energy combusting at lower temp.

My question is if you can afford a pretty new BMW, why would you worry about saving on fuel. Every time i see a V6 or V8 engines converted i always ponder... why would you even get a car with a bigger engine if you're worried about fuel costs
Sorry that is not normal thinking
why should i pay more , if i can pay half the price and get same thing....
i dont see normal thinking in that
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Old 06-15-2009, 03:12 PM   #39
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its not the same thing, thats why not every car is LPG. Also to answer the question from the poster obove you there are factory cars equipped with LPG or CNG. Afla romeo, nissan are amongst the most popular, there are others, i believe mercedes is one of them but i am not 100% sure
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Old 06-16-2009, 11:04 AM   #40
dinac
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after a few tanks, it consumption around 14-15 L / 100km of lpg
for now no problems
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