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General E46 Forum
This is the place to get answers, opinions and everything you need related to your E46 (sedan, coupe, convertible and wagon) BMW!

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Old 06-18-2009, 03:15 AM   #61
Megalocnus
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What were AC Schnitzer thinking when they made their GP3.10 Concept? Slowly destroying an M5 engine by LPG?
http://www.autoblog.com/2007/09/07/f...p3-10-concept/

Well, cheap LPG systems do have a negative impact on engine longevity. However, these belong to cheap cars with less sophisticated engines, not to an E46. This is not what Dinac and Richy Boy have done. They have invested in proper LPG conversion. Bashing them for that with worthless arguments is stupid.

By the way, years back I bought a 900 euro '91 Opel in Germany, put in a primitive LPG system and drove it for more than 100K km before it died for reasons not related to LPG.

Last edited by Megalocnus; 06-18-2009 at 03:21 AM.
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Old 06-18-2009, 03:26 AM   #62
Acarder
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Megalocnus View Post
What were AC Schnitzer thinking when they made their GP3.10 Concept? Slowly destroying an M5 engine by LPG?
http://www.autoblog.com/2007/09/07/f...p3-10-concept/

Well, cheap LPG systems do have a negative impact on the engine longevity. However, these belong to cheap cars with less sophisticated engines, not to an E46. This is not what Dinac and Richy Boy have done. They have invested in proper LPG conversion. Bashing them for that with worthless arguments is stupid.

By the way, years back I bought a 900 '91 Opel in Germany, put in a primitive LPG system and drove it for more than 100K km before it died for reasons not related to LPG.
If that was the GPE46330iwithM54engine.10 you may have a point, but since its a different car with a different engine you might has well have referred back to your '91 Opel as proof that the M54 will work. In any case, the S85 engine would have much harder factory valves then the M54 (as well as being completely different in design which is something no one seems to be able to grasp). On top of that i'd guess it would have built internals since it's from ACS and is a performance car. No factory engine designed to run on petrol puts out more power with LPG unless its tuned and rebuilt to "harness" the power. Even the S85 doesn't have a high enough compression ratio to fully exploit the higher octane LPG gas or the differences it has in comparison to petrol.

I'm not saying that your engine is going to lose compression and die on you. I'm saying that no one has really tried this before and it's a pretty ballsy move to make if all you've done is read websites set up by people trying to sell the systems. The M54 has no relation to any S65, M62, or S85 engines, nor does it have anything to do with a '91 Opel or 200sx. Just because those engines work fine with an LPG conversion (so far) does not mean at all that the M54 will, nor does it mean it wont. This is the test for the M54, so I guess we shall see.

Last edited by Acarder; 06-18-2009 at 03:28 AM.
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Old 06-18-2009, 04:24 AM   #63
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I think your concerns are based on the lack on info and experience in the US... in the UK this ocnversion is pretty common on just about ALL cars. SOME cars can suffer from valve recess, however, BMWs are not one of those cars.

Typically Honda and Ford engines (in the UK anyway) can suffer, whereby the car needs to run an extra lub system which stops the problem dead.

It's tough to prove anything unless you've been there an done it personally and my car has an S50 based bottom end with (I think) a modified 330 single VANOs head...

Here's a testimonal from someone with a BMW 330 though:

http://www.afs.uk.com/testimonials.htm

Video of someone driving a 330 cab on LPG:



Way more advanced and expensive cars are being converted over in the UK.. Porsche Cayennes, Miti Evos, BMW M3s, Suburu Imprezas - you name it.

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Old 06-18-2009, 06:55 AM   #64
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+1

Quote:
I think your concerns are based on the lack on info and experience in the US... in the UK this ocnversion is pretty common on just about ALL cars. SOME cars can suffer from valve recess, however, BMWs are not one of those cars.
think this is the best answer
Many of US residents dont know what is LPG or CNG conversion, because they have muscle cars, and cars with 5.0L and 200 KS because their fuel cost are VERY LOW, and thats why there is stupid posts that saying "U should buy diesel" or "Buy another car that is not BMW if u drive on LPG" and similar .....

Dont think that driving on diesel is much much cheaper here ... last year on some time diesel was more expensive then petrol , was around $7 for gallon - some better diesel cars wtih 200+KS consumption cca 9 - 10L / 100km and more, so LPG is still much cheaper and cleaner

Diesel to LPG conversion is olso possible, but it is not to common..As i heard it gives more power and torque on these conversion, i think i read about 20% more.

go look @ this http://www.zercustoms.com/news/AC-Sc...ies-Coupe.html

Last edited by dinac; 06-18-2009 at 07:08 AM.
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Old 06-18-2009, 07:48 AM   #65
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Dunno what kits you have over in the US, but in the UK you can't run a Diesel engine purely on LPG, you need to mix the two fuels. i.e. 50% of each. You still save money, but not as much. Over here Diesel has been more than petrol to buy for a long time due to the high oil content in it.

It's certainly cleaner though, we have annual car tests over called an MOT where they test emissions. My CO2 went from 0.02 to 0.002 after running LPG (they have to test the car on the fuel you drive in with).

The main kit sold on the market is a 'dry' kit where you have a tank of liquid propane in the boot which is evapourated into a gas and then injected into the engine with special LPG injectors. The 'vapouriser' uses the hot water from the cooling system to do its thing. The LPG ECU simply piggybacks the petrol injector signal and adjusts it for the different characteristics of the fuel, so your petrol ECU remains in charge of the fuelling, the LPG ECU just tweaks the injector timing as well as simulates the petrol injector signal so the cars ECU doesn't throw service lights.

The other, much more rare kit being sold is a 'wet kit' which injects liquid propane directly into the engine. This has several benefits, the main one being that it cools the engine down significantly, much like NOS as it evapourates, great for turbo cars..! however, they've never really got the reliability sorted on these kits so they're not mainsteam yet.

Of course, the main problem with LPG/Autogas is that it's still a by-product of oil, so although much better for the environment, it'll always be a half-way house between petrol cars and the holy-grail: electric or hyrogen.

Rich
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Last edited by Richy_Boy; 06-18-2009 at 07:52 AM.
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Old 06-18-2009, 05:32 PM   #66
Megalocnus
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Richi boy, are there any natural gas (mostly methane) kits for the E46 in UK? these are growing more popular back home, but I've only seen NG kits for smaller engines with lower compression.
The natural gas is cheaper than LPG, available in larger amounts as it is not a petrol by-product.

By the way, I think you ment your CO, not CO2 emmisions dropped from 0.02 to 0.002 after LPG conversion.
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Old 06-19-2009, 12:11 AM   #67
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Here in Zagreb as i know there are only 1 petrol station with natural gas - CNG, but as i see ,some of our local buses use CNG, but never heard that someone driving car on it
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Old 06-26-2009, 02:17 PM   #68
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I don't think we have CNG over here, or at least it's not on any forecourts like LPG (or Autogas as some call it). I *think* you loose quite a bit more power using CNG than LPG, but, as I mentioned before, different Countries add Butane so it's no longer pure liquid Propane.

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Old 04-15-2010, 02:33 PM   #69
dinac
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2 regulars services was made , @ 2x10.000 km & till today , no problems at all with LPG

greener and cleaner

Last edited by dinac; 04-15-2010 at 02:38 PM.
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Old 05-05-2010, 02:58 PM   #70
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nice job dinac. Brave of you to do it yourself. Got mine converted over a year ago, and it's fab. Calculated that I've made my money back a few months ago, now the money i save on filling with LPG rather than petrol is extra money in the pocket Oh and it's better for the environment!
Definitely no lack in performance, and if you do feel a slack in your power just tune it up...Simples!
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Old 05-09-2010, 05:57 AM   #71
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Just out of curiosity, would you be able to run a car on LPG with boost?
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Old 06-07-2010, 04:44 AM   #72
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nice job Richy boy!!
I am ready to install LPG kit on my E46 2.2 M54 engine.
I want to ask you if you know:If for any reason (for example to make a diy ) you have to disconect the baterry of the car,will you have any problems with the LPG ECU?
And another :I think that there is some guarantee with the installation of the kit and also you have to check some parts every 20.000km .
Thanks for your time.

P.S Here in Greece the market of the LPG is growing very fast ,the difference in the price of LPG-petrol is almost 40% so lots of people are making it.
One of the problems is that still there is no many gas stations with LPG and another problem is that many think they will have a loss of power on their cars
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Old 06-08-2010, 08:03 PM   #73
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330Ci LPG oil analysis

Heres the first oil analysis of my 330Ci whilst running on LPG for the last 7.5k miles. Lead wear rates are the lowest they've ever been

Ive edited the file to show which oils were being used when, and for my car i've come to the conclusion that Castrol Edge is pants:

http://www.mediafire.com/file/z5nzgmxzzln/UOA at 84k with LPG.PDF
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Old 07-26-2010, 05:45 PM   #74
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LPG powered vehicle is not new technology anymore, it's a safer and cleaner solution to power any vehicle.
LPG cars are very popular in Asia too. Many commercial vehicles come with LPG setup from factory.

In 2007, AC Schnitzer made a LPG powered E92 BMW M3 called "GP 3.10". 552 hp, top speed: 318 km/hr.


Last edited by weigun; 07-26-2010 at 05:47 PM.
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Old 07-26-2010, 06:16 PM   #75
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That is awsome. We run LPG in the jeep world all the time. LPG is 110 octane and is very knock resistant. If you were to play with your timing and deck the head (or block) to get... say 12:1 compression you would see a HUGE power gain. LPG on a lower compression ingine with advance timing doesn't give power increases, it actual will cause power loss. Its like putting race fuel into an engine made to run 83 octane.

who did the mixer and injection system come from?

Last edited by welchct; 07-26-2010 at 06:22 PM.
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Old 07-27-2010, 04:06 AM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dinac View Post
Here in Zagreb as i know there are only 1 petrol station with natural gas - CNG, but as i see ,some of our local buses use CNG, but never heard that someone driving car on it

I have a 328 e46 touring cng 160000 km crossed without problems
here my auto:http://www.metanoauto.com/modules.ph...g2_itemId=5625
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