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Old 06-12-2009, 10:46 PM   #41
Audio_Phill
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Lol, danielkspencer's "boy" here, MECA member #323399designer of systems that have set 4 new records this year alone, lol. And yes... I use an RTA for finding the transfer function of the cabin which then the box can be tuned to correspond with the gains and losses . As for that price not reflecting a quaility system, I am a car audio dealer as well as home hi-fi, The woofer we chose for this installation was a True Bass Solutions Ultra 10 made by Dana Audio Corp. Based out of Kingston TN, Daniel refers to this woofer as competition because it currently holds alot of records in TN for both SPL and SQ and is a yearly attendant at the MECA World finals (Which all of my current systems are already invited too and are in the points lead.) The woofers are hand assembled for me one at a time per order by the owner of the company James Carroll... believe it or not. Retail on the woofer is $275 by itself, the woofer is rated at 600rms and 3kWatts for 3sec (Sine Wave) it boasts an Fs of 32Hz once broken in and a Sensitivity of 89.7dB 1w/1m and a low Q to accommodate a slow roll-off for better low end extension and a super low Mms for tight punchy capabilities in the 45-50Hz range. Close to the kick drum there studio man, The interior of a BMW e46 has a slight dip around 34Hz before returning to the gain side as the freq both decreases and increases, since there is no such thing as perfect box volume and the only real thing affected by altering the amount of net volume in the enclosure is usable bandwidth and power handling of the sub, I used enough volume to allow a trough in sound reproduction between 40Hz and 55Hz (a benefit of low Qts drivers in some situations) where the cabin resonance was most sympathetic and tuned the box to have gain at the cars main loss freq of 34Hz. Meaning this: Less EQ is needed to achieve an output close to flat response and with the efficiency of the woofer being that high higher sound pressure is also not to hard to achieve. You should chill man, throwing words back and forth over a forum is useless, if your that convinced we do not know what we are doing, let the guy wanting one of my setups be yet another satisfied customer give you his opinion it instead of being eat up with whatever bug it is that makes you so argumentative? I cant believe you have 5k in your car setup, holy siht man who bent you over, lol. I have less than that in al my cars combined and 1 is SQ and the Other is an SPL/Daily setup which can do 146+dB at the headrest with sine wave and 144.6dB with music (yes, full range but 30Hz-22kHz) X-over is set to 80 and the blend with the front stage is good enough for many to be in disbelief at how "listenable" it is. lol. Any who it boils down to this, believe it or not, after 16 years of doing this, I actually know what I am doing, lol. I can build a system for under $1K that the most discriminate audiophile would have a hard time nit-picking...
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Old 06-12-2009, 11:01 PM   #42
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Yeah, im a sound nut, have friends that own audio shops, body shops, mechanic shops. I am not a pro installer(though i know some) I used to compete amateur IASCA way back when SQ comp, i despise dbl, but as much as i would love to give some generic suggestions i cant get in internet pissing matches. Otherwise id be reccomending lots of audio control proccessors, macintosh liquid cooled amps ect and be giving the op a build that cost more than his car and house combined. And yes to an extent music you listen too does matter for instance have you ever listened to death metal through a bandpass box? Sounds like crap you say? Cant make out fast drum beats you say? Personally i prefer and almost exclusively use sealed boxes, does that make others bad--no. That said while i wont disagree that his sub/amp sounds good as i have never even heard it, and it very well may sound nice, i cant see how 400 could buy a perfect tuned built system. A perfect set-up for his expectation yes, a perfect set-up for mine hahah hardly. 400 would not even buy the amp to power my sub. I'd be hard pressed to get one of my pro builder buddies to break out any equipment and computer design a box let alone build it. But it all come back to what the op expects to achieve and upgradeability, as will happen trust me any tuning causes you to want more. And ive been told on here already how much jl subs suck so like i said ive given a few suggestions to point in a general direction, never claimed anything to be best or worst, just given some general ideas for a price point based on what i personally might buy if i was looking in a certaint price area. My biggest prob is ive had like 10 cars in 7 years so i got so much stuff laying around now lol. btw yes i am a huge fan of jl audio, audio control, soundstream, precision power, boston acoustics, dynaudio, vifa, morel, mb quart reference line, macintosh ect and within these lines you can build any kind of set-up you want. All very well respected,well built, long lasting quality brands. I will always recommend these manufacturers. There may be better brands or models or what have you but i have never once had a problem either quality or sound wise with anything from these companies. Its like a pen for instance if a bic has always worked well for you with your expectations why would you even bother looking into a papermate? May the papermate be better(possibly) but who cares if your happy with the bic. And to some extent you get what you pay for.
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Old 06-12-2009, 11:03 PM   #43
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I wasn't knocking DA just the way he suggested enclosing that specific speaker, BTW. That sub does not like that enclosure so I wonder why a pro suggests using it in that fasion unless he just did it and now thinks it's cool without even comparing the same sub in a different setup and finding out he could have gotten it to play much better with a little R and D.

My sub hits over 135 in the front seat. Of course it's way more than that at the back. And it's not even broken in yet and I have to amp on half gain, too. For a single 10 it is pretty impressive, actually. Esp. when you consider that it's in the trunk of a quality sedan not a hatchback.
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Old 06-12-2009, 11:03 PM   #44
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Wow, man daniel actually had you register, and post a response, that's pathetic! I'm glad you know what your doing, and I'm glad you think that's such a great sub, not sure why if it's sooo great, the price point isn't reflective of the quality... But ok.... $275 isn't that high for a quality woofer, and if that's the case, why are you selling the whole setup soooo damn cheap? In 15 years of doing it, I'd hope you would learn how to make it profitable by now. In 15 years I'm sure YOU know that in the end, it comes down to what sounds good to the user, and I'm sorry, but I hold dear the fact that one setup, no matter what the computer says, isn't the be-all end-all for every e46, period! The best cars are computer designed suspension wise, then given to a driver to really dial it in, I don't care what computer equip you have, it comes down to a real human ear... Same as with a recording studio, in the end, it is edited and produced by someone with a great ear! Yes, my setup was 5K, and I didn't go to one place and get bent over, but I also have no problem supporting the companies who's products I use and buying through authorized dealers, not black market, so, for the equip I have, it's about right! Anyways, I've got beezies waiting, a couple of young little things, you guys should try and go find the same!

Cheers to both you and Daniel, btw, try to get him laid, I think he needs to loose the v-card!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Audio_Phill View Post
Lol, danielkspencer's "boy" here, MECA member #323399designer of systems that have set 4 new records this year alone, lol. And yes... I use an RTA for finding the transfer function of the cabin which then the box can be tuned to correspond with the gains and losses . As for that price not reflecting a quaility system, I am a car audio dealer as well as home hi-fi, The woofer we chose for this installation was a True Bass Solutions Ultra 10 made by Dana Audio Corp. Based out of Kingston TN, Daniel refers to this woofer as competition because it currently holds alot of records in TN for both SPL and SQ and is a yearly attendant at the MECA World finals (Which all of my current systems are already invited too and are in the points lead.) The woofers are hand assembled for me one at a time per order by the owner of the company James Carroll... believe it or not. Retail on the woofer is $275 by itself, the woofer is rated at 600rms and 3kWatts for 3sec (Sine Wave) it boasts an Fs of 32Hz once broken in and a Sensitivity of 89.7dB 1w/1m and a low Q to accommodate a slow roll-off for better low end extension and a super low Mms for tight punchy capabilities in the 45-50Hz range. Close to the kick drum there studio man, The interior of a BMW e46 has a slight dip around 34Hz before returning to the gain side as the freq both decreases and increases, since there is no such thing as perfect box volume and the only real thing affected by altering the amount of net volume in the enclosure is usable bandwidth and power handling of the sub, I used enough volume to allow a trough in sound reproduction between 40Hz and 55Hz (a benefit of low Qts drivers in some situations) where the cabin resonance was most sympathetic and tuned the box to have gain at the cars main loss freq of 34Hz. Meaning this: Less EQ is needed to achieve an output close to flat response and with the efficiency of the woofer being that high higher sound pressure is also not to hard to achieve. You should chill man, throwing words back and forth over a forum is useless, if your that convinced we do not know what we are doing, let the guy wanting one of my setups be yet another satisfied customer give you his opinion it instead of being eat up with whatever bug it is that makes you so argumentative? I cant believe you have 5k in your car setup, holy siht man who bent you over, lol. I have less than that in al my cars combined and 1 is SQ and the Other is an SPL/Daily setup which can do 146+dB at the headrest with sine wave and 144.6dB with music (yes, full range but 30Hz-22kHz) X-over is set to 80 and the blend with the front stage is good enough for many to be in disbelief at how "listenable" it is. lol. Any who it boils down to this, believe it or not, after 16 years of doing this, I actually know what I am doing, lol. I can build a system for under $1K that the most discriminate audiophile would have a hard time nit-picking...
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Old 06-12-2009, 11:03 PM   #45
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146@ what freq?

Would like to know more about the setup.

Also, what records were set? Why isnt true bass solutions more popular outside of TN? Never see anyone running their gear on CA.COM
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Old 06-12-2009, 11:08 PM   #46
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As Phill said above, it can get a system like that when you're a dealer getting everything at dealer prices and not having to pay for fabrication, time, knowledge, or install. We were going to be nice and sell a system that would cost way more to dude at a deal since it's cheap for us to do it since all the leg work was done with my car. Now all the R and D is done and all that has to be done is cookie cutter crap. We spent lots of our spare time working on my system, seems like a wast to just brake the mold and not pass it on. It's like making the stealth bomber and then throwing away the plans. Why not make more and help others out. Everyone who has gotten him to build him a setup has had nothing but great things to say about it.
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Old 06-12-2009, 11:12 PM   #47
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And were selling it so cheap because we don't have to do this **** to make money. I have a great real job and dude is plenty well off. Just trying to show off our stuff and help people out. Guess people just don't do that anymore. Hell, I just get a kick out of people bragging about how great the setup is and being thankful that they have it and that we hooked them up. Hard to believe, hu?? Guess you need to be a selfish prick to have a Bimmer and make markup on people to fit in.
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Old 06-12-2009, 11:16 PM   #48
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guys guys like i said before can this please not turn into a personall pissing match, its derailing the ops thread
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Old 06-12-2009, 11:16 PM   #49
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Awesome blossom dude! Like I said, go get yourself some vag! I'm not here to make enemies, quite the opposite! I stand where I stand on the subject, and I know you do to, and I can respect that! Hopefully we see a little more eye to eye on other subjects. I'm gonna do something I hardly ever do and try to be the bigger person and call a truce! Sounds like you are trying to do what you feel is best in helping people out, as was I, we just disagree on how!

Take Care!

Quote:
Originally Posted by danielkspencer View Post
As Phill said above, it can get a system like that when you're a dealer getting everything at dealer prices and not having to pay for fabrication, time, knowledge, or install. We were going to be nice and sell a system that would cost way more to dude at a deal since it's cheap for us to do it since all the leg work was done with my car. Now all the R and D is done and all that has to be done is cookie cutter crap. We spent lots of our spare time working on my system, seems like a wast to just brake the mold and not pass it on. It's like making the stealth bomber and then throwing away the plans. Why not make more and help others out. Everyone who has gotten him to build him a setup has had nothing but great things to say about it.
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Old 06-13-2009, 01:54 AM   #50
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32Hz at the headreston termlab, 146.1 actually, lol. does a 147.5 if I want it to get stupid and over power the woofers, does the 146.1 with 2400 on 4 of the 10's I used in Daniels Bimmer.









True Bass Solutions isn't very popular outside TN because there aren't any dealers or reps, I have set VA Mod 2 twice this year and Mod 5 twice or three times (pushing the bar higher) and set new Xstreme SPL record in NC for Loudest SUV (No Wall 5K class) All pressures developed below 40Hz also.

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Old 06-13-2009, 03:35 AM   #51
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I don't know what you've been doing the past 15 years and 11 months as an "installer" ESPECIALLY as a quote, un-quote professional competition winning installer, but that looks like absolute, 100% rats nest GARBAGE! ITT tech might be a good idea for you! You realize this is a BMW forum, and people on here appreciate quality craftsmanship, right? You might be better off building systems for "Box, bubble, donked out" Chevy's for "DAT SLAP" but not a luxury german automobile forum with that crap! You may be winning competitions for DB drags in the parking lot of local stereo shops with that **** work, but not on a national level, NO WAY! I absolutely rest my case! I don't care what DB that work of BS achieves, that is a shame to the world of installation! Please, everyone, demand higher quality of installation than what those pictures show, I would beat the **** out of someone if they did that to my car, and expect to get the **** beaten out of me if I did it to someone elses car! If that passes as an install these days, I'm sad to see what has happened to the industry since I left! I don't know what's funnier, the batteries chillin' in rear passenger foot well, or the amp chillin' on the seat! I would give the rest of my salary for the year to see the fireworks if you had an emergency stop, and the amp flew forward and arc'd the terminals of both batteries!!!!! No Effing wonder your setups in all of your cars cost less than the one in mine! You speak of your setup as being "usable" but, it isn't! Hey guys hop in the car.... oh wait, I have my amp sitting on my back seat. you can't! I can't believe you associate yourself with that horrible, disgusting load of dog ****! That's an install not even a mother could love! As Daniel loves to use best buy as an example, maybe you should take that setup to them and have it cleaned up, make your suv usable again!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Audio_Phill View Post
32Hz at the headreston termlab, 146.1 actually, lol. does a 147.5 if I want it to get stupid and over power the woofers, does the 146.1 with 2400 on 4 of the 10's I used in Daniels Bimmer.









True Bass Solutions isn't very popular outside TN because there aren't any dealers or reps, I have set VA Mod 2 twice this year and Mod 5 twice or three times (pushing the bar higher) and set new Xstreme SPL record in NC for Loudest SUV (No Wall 5K class) All pressures developed below 40Hz also.

Last edited by scottys209; 06-13-2009 at 04:28 AM.
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Old 06-13-2009, 09:28 AM   #52
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Dude, that's his Comp vehicle not his daily driver. It's not made to look pretty it's made to be loud. He switches between installs in minutes if necessary. No one at any of these comps has a system that is pretty because that's not the point and usually there's too much stuff to try to hide. His daily driver's instally is tight, but it's not for comps, just as mine looks tight, too.

Nice tactic saying you are going to be the bigger man then running your mouth more

Being the bigger man doesn't involve telling me I need to get laid. You're bringing BS into this that isn't even pertinent to the situation.
You don't even know me. I would defend my Pimpness, but I was busy getting laid while you were up a 4:30am on this forum.

Maybe you should get laid. I'm sure there's a gay club around there somewhere that will still let you in.

Looking at the amount of posting you have done I'm thinking you probably don't have any life at all. Do you even have a BMW? Do you have a drivers license? Really, do you ever get to drive your car anywhere???

I've gotten so involved in this argument that I've managed to piss away too much time that I could have been doing other things and you could have been. . . well, doing this with someone else instead of me.

So, show the cyber world how smart you are and I'll go crawl back in bed with with my gf and the midget we rented last night, The girl with one arm already had to go home. Turn on my Dollar General Air Conditioner and hope no one in the trailer park wakes us up before 3 so we can take the midget back to the circus, return the monkey, and pack the slip and slide up,too. We need to try to get a refund on the weed eater, but I doubt we will with all the KY that got in the motor. Maybe I can sell it to Crazy Eddie. Hell, he bought that snorkel that time, why not? Said he likes the way my stuff smells????? Whatever works I guess.

My gf said if I didn't get off this GD site she wasn't going to let her sister come over anymore so I guess I better go before she hits me with the toaster again. I don't know why we have a toaster anyway. We don't eat toast. Neither does her sister. Lesbians are cool, but you'd think they'd eat toast.

I'm glad I'm ok with being me. I love me, but not in public anymore. Probation says I can't, anyway.

I'm not even going to check this thread anymore so don't bother directing anything toward me.

I've got to try to get the poo off the bedpost and the chicken out of the closet.
Them thangs got claws

It's been fun my new friends, you should come over sometime??????
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Old 06-13-2009, 09:50 AM   #53
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Not that i would want my vehicle to look like that even if i was my comp only vehicle, but IASCA actually does have formats where install is not looked at or judged numbers alone win.Many competitors run set-ups that look like that esp in the lower levels as its easier to change on the fly between comps/upgrade. And those are some nice numbers and nice response levels. They even have a sqc sound quality that is judged soley on numbers. Bass boxing i dont think cares about install just sq in of cone space for class and numbers generated i think. That said i do agree you can build a very nice set-up for under 1k no prob as they are obviously only talking subs, not mid/high/heads ect ect. and yes sub wise you could easily please an audiophile with sub sq.
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Old 06-13-2009, 01:53 PM   #54
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Smile Forum Jack, lol

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Not that i would want my vehicle to look like that even if i was my comp only vehicle, but IASCA actually does have formats where install is not looked at or judged numbers alone win.Many competitors run set-ups that look like that esp in the lower levels as its easier to change on the fly between comps/upgrade. And those are some nice numbers and nice response levels. They even have a sqc sound quality that is judged soley on numbers. Bass boxing i dont think cares about install just sq in of cone space for class and numbers generated i think. That said i do agree you can build a very nice set-up for under 1k no prob as they are obviously only talking subs, not mid/high/heads ect ect. and yes sub wise you could easily please an audiophile with sub sq.
Yep, you are absolutly correct on it not being a permanent install, infact it will be completely redesigned for the next show so everything needs to be as conveniently removable as possible, lol. And for $1K I was meaning full SQ setup, with my dealer prices I only have to mark up enough to cover taxes, car audio is not my career just somethin to occupy time and fulfill a passion. I have plenty of pretty stuff to, just wanted to show ya the way everything wss witn my SPL/Daily vehicle. It Is a Mod 3 MECA vehicle in that state, but by finals it will be both louder and prettier. While Scotty's busy pissin in everyones cheerio's I was simply trying to give ya a full idea of what my current setup consists of, I'm over on caraudio.com same user name, come on over and chat with some of the guys over there about me, my rep is more polished there since more people are familiar with my setups and know enough about such things to be worth conversing with about it!
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Old 06-13-2009, 04:56 PM   #55
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I probably just never followed that part of competitions, because one look at cars like that and would have no interest in seeing what it could do, just reminds me of a high school shop project. If that's what your into man, glad you are happy with it. I'm not trying to "piss on everyone's cheerios" I just can't respect that type of work, being a temp setup or not, I respect my car and equipment way to much. www.stevemeadedesigns.com has some nice setups that win competitions, and look pretty damn good! I know it's in a whole different league, but it is possible to do things well! I have actually seen some of Steve's work up close (Sac area) and he is very good.

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Yep, you are absolutly correct on it not being a permanent install, infact it will be completely redesigned for the next show so everything needs to be as conveniently removable as possible, lol. And for $1K I was meaning full SQ setup, with my dealer prices I only have to mark up enough to cover taxes, car audio is not my career just somethin to occupy time and fulfill a passion. I have plenty of pretty stuff to, just wanted to show ya the way everything wss witn my SPL/Daily vehicle. It Is a Mod 3 MECA vehicle in that state, but by finals it will be both louder and prettier. While Scotty's busy pissin in everyones cheerio's I was simply trying to give ya a full idea of what my current setup consists of, I'm over on caraudio.com same user name, come on over and chat with some of the guys over there about me, my rep is more polished there since more people are familiar with my setups and know enough about such things to be worth conversing with about it!
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Old 06-13-2009, 08:45 PM   #56
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Yeah, of course we know who Steve is. But thats comparing apples to oranges. His minimum install is 25,000. Not by any means practical for anything but show. Not anymore listenable than a comp system, but not loud enough to compete in the catagory he would have to be in for the amount of subs/amps/money involved. His stuff is off the chain for what it is. Don't get me wrong. It's just not a good example.
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Old 06-14-2009, 02:37 AM   #57
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Yeah, I do agree that he isn't getting the very most SPL wise for what he is running, I don't even agree with using RF amps, I personally don't like RF... I was just saying he does great work on the installation side. The guy isn't a pro with a pro shop, just an audio nut. I really doubt he really goes into depth on the acoustic side, he's more into adding more and more wattage wise and driver wise. I'm a fan of his craftsmanship though, and his drive to always 1 up himself, and never being scared of taking on a huge project. I wasn't trying to say that he gets the most for the drivers he uses as an example, but his craftsmanship, and for that I do believe it is a good example, he is definately talented on the installation side.

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Yeah, of course we know who Steve is. But thats comparing apples to oranges. His minimum install is 25,000. Not by any means practical for anything but show. Not anymore listenable than a comp system, but not loud enough to compete in the catagory he would have to be in for the amount of subs/amps/money involved. His stuff is off the chain for what it is. Don't get me wrong. It's just not a good example.
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Old 06-14-2009, 09:53 AM   #58
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Yeah, I'll sure give him that, too. Pretty stuff to look at and listen to. And if the consumer has that much money to spend then so be it. If I was a Rapper (God forbid, lol) then I'd have him pimp my Caddy.
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