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Go Back   E46Fanatics > Tuning & Tech > Suspension & Braking

Suspension & Braking
Have some questions about suspension or brake setups for your E46 BMW? Get all your answers here!

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Old 11-17-2010, 10:07 PM   #61
Kubica
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Originally Posted by RGO325CiC View Post
I always had this problem--worst was after long stretches on the highway before I needed to brake. I recently put on a set of drilled rotors, and have much better wet braking.
This problem happens with rotors that need to be replaced.

A new set of blanks would cure the issue too.
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Old 11-25-2010, 11:52 PM   #62
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Ok, I just bought a 04 330ci 6MT.. The previous owner just pud new pads before selling it to me. However when I was driving at heavy rain on highway I realized that brakes dont function properly for 2-3 seconds/tries.. Also when I try to push hard at first then it pulled to right a couple times, and start braking later.. Once I apply brakes it is good and doesnt pull anywhere.. In dry weather they always behave very good..

Honestly, there is something wrong and nobody can tell me this is normal/acceptable. I used to have a 02 330ci before and it never did something like this. Of course at rain it might feel a little bit weaker for less than a second, but 2 seconds of no brakes is too much..

Rotors look alright and I dont think they need replacement (I still have to check).. The car runs and drives pretty good. It doesnt need alignment or balance or anything else..

Is there a way to adjust these pads properly or should I replace them with OEM ones (I dont think he put OEM pads)?

Thanks..
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Old 11-26-2010, 12:25 AM   #63
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If it's pulling when the brakes are applied it could be a sticky brake caliper or worn bushings.

Best to get a shop to check it out. Should be simple to diagnose and fix.
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Old 11-26-2010, 12:28 AM   #64
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it doesnt pull any when brakes are applied at dry weather.. it pulls only when applied for the first time real hard at heavy rain (it doesnt help stopping a lot either). car doesnt pull at second brake even under heavy rain...
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Old 11-26-2010, 12:34 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by MrAvantgarde View Post
Ok, I just bought a 04 330ci 6MT.. The previous owner just pud new pads before selling it to me. However when I was driving at heavy rain on highway I realized that brakes dont function properly for 2-3 seconds/tries.. Also when I try to push hard at first then it pulled to right a couple times, and start braking later.. Once I apply brakes it is good and doesnt pull anywhere.. In dry weather they always behave very good..

Honestly, there is something wrong and nobody can tell me this is normal/acceptable. I used to have a 02 330ci before and it never did something like this. Of course at rain it might feel a little bit weaker for less than a second, but 2 seconds of no brakes is too much..

Rotors look alright and I dont think they need replacement (I still have to check).. The car runs and drives pretty good. It doesnt need alignment or balance or anything else..

Is there a way to adjust these pads properly or should I replace them with OEM ones (I dont think he put OEM pads)?

Thanks..
if it pulls to the right that means the left side isn't working. It could be a restriction on the brake lines or piston inside caliper is actin up. You know what else it could be, air in the system. Whoever did the brake job, let air in the system or did not bleed it correctly. Try to bleed the brakes before you do anything else, i'd say start there because its the easiest and cheapest task before you go on spending money on **** you don't need.

Last edited by eddiewolfgang; 11-26-2010 at 12:38 AM.
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Old 11-26-2010, 02:20 AM   #66
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I've had this 1 to 2 second delay before on my 330ci in heavy rain on the highway. It's nothing more than water on the discs. The new e90's automatically activate the brakes every few clicks when the rain sensor detects rain so as to avoid this problem.

Yesterday I changed my brakes to oem rotors out back, BMW Performance Floating rotors on the front with PFC Z-Rated pads all around. It rained pretty hard today and my brakes have been working great without any delay. When I experienced the delay before chaning the pads, the low pad light was already on and I know for a fact that it was on due to both the front and rears being toast.

Fresh pads and rotors may have helped as they have decreased the gap between pad and disc but I don't think this accounts for the entire solution. I'm guessing that the holes in the floating rotor help to remove water more quickly as the rotor is spinning (centrifugal force).

My 2c. Good luck.
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Old 11-26-2010, 05:28 AM   #67
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It seems the bulk of the problems are from 3301 Owners. My 325 Wagon had stock factory brakes that were worn out when I bought it and it did not have this problem at all. In the next few days I will be installing 330i brakes with factory pads, so will be curious to see how it works.
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Old 12-13-2010, 08:39 AM   #68
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well I will add myself to the list of people with this problem. I had stock 325 brakes and installed stock 330i brakes front and rear. Factory rotors, factory pads . rebuilt front calipers. I did some highway driving in wet cold weather yesterday and when I hit the brakes at 75mph or higher, there is a one second delay before they bite. Quite unaaceptable and very un BMW like. Could the cooling ducts have something to do with it??
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Old 12-13-2010, 09:02 AM   #69
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well, i was thinking about replacing mine with stock pads, but you say its makes with stocks rotors and pads too. i'm pretty sure there should be a fix and there is sth wrong.. i drove my old 330ci a year long in all kind of weather and never felt so (stock rotors and pads)..
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Old 12-13-2010, 09:24 AM   #70
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well I will add myself to the list of people with this problem. I had stock 325 brakes and installed stock 330i brakes front and rear. Factory rotors, factory pads . rebuilt front calipers. I did some highway driving in wet cold weather yesterday and when I hit the brakes at 75mph or higher, there is a one second delay before they bite. Quite unaaceptable and very un BMW like. Could the cooling ducts have something to do with it??
Not sure what you mean about the cooling ducts. Did you change the bumper and maybe lose cooling ducts...or you think that maybe your 325 ducts aren't bringing enough air to the 330 rotors or something?

Also, I have to say that from what I understand...all brakes work worse when cold...all brakes work worse when wet (water is a lubricant)...and all brakes would work the worst, relatively speaking, when cold and wet.

I also have to wonder whether this one second delay you're noticing as a problem might also be that you might need that second of extra braking because you're not allowing enough distance between you and car in front? Not accusing, mind you...just wondering.

Anyway, these aren't magic car stopping devices...they're just pads on metal and if you lubricate them with water, you'll have some loss of stopping power until you 'wipe' away that layer of water.

Only other thing I can guess...and it's a total guess...but I wonder whether the hydraulic force is the same from the 325 and 330...and if so, would think that the pressure between pad on rotor on the 330 might be just a tad less (since it's a larger pad/rotor). That, or if you 'upgraded' to 330 rotors and the 330 does have 'stronger' hydraulics, then maybe you're 'under-pressuring' the brakes, and although you expected an upgrade in stopping power, actually achieved a downgrade. (All just long-winded theory/question).

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Old 12-13-2010, 10:31 AM   #71
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Not sure what you mean about the cooling ducts. Did you change the bumper and maybe lose cooling ducts...or you think that maybe your 325 ducts aren't bringing enough air to the 330 rotors or something?

Also, I have to say that from what I understand...all brakes work worse when cold...all brakes work worse when wet (water is a lubricant)...and all brakes would work the worst, relatively speaking, when cold and wet.

I also have to wonder whether this one second delay you're noticing as a problem might also be that you might need that second of extra braking because you're not allowing enough distance between you and car in front? Not accusing, mind you...just wondering.

Anyway, these aren't magic car stopping devices...they're just pads on metal and if you lubricate them with water, you'll have some loss of stopping power until you 'wipe' away that layer of water.

Only other thing I can guess...and it's a total guess...but I wonder whether the hydraulic force is the same from the 325 and 330...and if so, would think that the pressure between pad on rotor on the 330 might be just a tad less (since it's a larger pad/rotor). That, or if you 'upgraded' to 330 rotors and the 330 does have 'stronger' hydraulics, then maybe you're 'under-pressuring' the brakes, and although you expected an upgrade in stopping power, actually achieved a downgrade. (All just long-winded theory/question).

Doug
Without going into the specifics of it Doug, it seems to be fairly common place among 330's. I don't know why it seems to strike the 330's more than the rest but it does. As for what it comes from, its from needing new rotors. I expierence the problem myself, and while my rotors are within minimum specs, and have 0 lateral runout, and my pads still have about 40% life left, I have a lip on the edge of my rotors which I need to shave off so that it is indeed even.

This lip is what is preventing the water from being pushed away from the brakes when applied, and while yes braking is at its worst in the cold and wet, this situation being spoken off is far worse tha anything else I have experienced. As I said it comes from that lip so there's your answer.
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Old 12-13-2010, 10:39 AM   #72
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Duh.. disc are wet, thus the initial bite is not there. Dry them off by lightly applying the brakes or brake earlier.
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Old 12-13-2010, 02:37 PM   #73
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I have an E36 M3 with similar sized barkes. It has zero issues in the wet and it's brakes are original with 70K on them, so not sure what this lip issue is. . When I had worn out 325 brakes on my E46 it had zero issues. Those rotors had a much bigger lip on them too. Now I have new pads on "Lightly used" rotors and I have the problem. The brakes work very well in the dry or one second after I apply them in the wet. Firm pedal and progressive. The question about the hydraulics on the 330 does not apply as the 330 shares the same master cylinder as the 325. WHen I suggested the cooling duct, I was thinking about the vent atthe front of the splash shield. Maybe it does not work as well with the bigger 330 rotors?
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Old 12-13-2010, 03:54 PM   #74
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you may have a small amount of air in the lines, but it's unlikely. I say pads.
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Old 12-13-2010, 05:21 PM   #75
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No air in the lines, the pedal is very firm and minimal pedal travel.
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Old 12-30-2010, 12:44 AM   #76
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No air in the lines, the pedal is very firm and minimal pedal travel.
same here with mine.. when it rains pedal is firm and brakes dont feel good at least for 2 seconds... did u able to figure it out?
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Old 12-30-2010, 03:12 AM   #77
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Lightbulb

larger rotors=larger surface sweep area that is wet that needs to have it swept away on initial bite.

perforated rotors work better in the wet.
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Old 12-30-2010, 04:48 AM   #78
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same here with mine.. when it rains pedal is firm and brakes dont feel good at least for 2 seconds... did u able to figure it out?
As you brake and let go of the pedal, the pads self adjust themselves to just hitting the rotor. That's why when you rotate a wheel when the vehicle is in the air you may here slight rubbing of the pad against the rotor. The rubbing will get more intense on a certain part of the rotation signalling some rotor warp.

As the rotor wears, the pad self adjusts itself to get closer and closer to the wearing rotor in relation to the new rotor position. Since there is that tiny bit of space in between if there is a significant amount of water holding itself in between the rotor and pad, when you hit the pedal it'll feel like it barely moves because there is water in between hence why it feels firm at the start just before water is 'wiped/squeezed/evaporated' away.

Why does it take longer than one rotation to bring braking feel back to normal? As the water is squeezed by the pads, it has nowhere to go but out the sides. The bad thing is that on the top/bottom (short) side of the pad where the cold water is squeezed out, the water just redeposits itself back onto the cold rotor. The outside of the pad/rotor is much more sealed so water is bounced back as centrifugal forces trap the water in that movement a few times. As heat is generated to warm the rotor, water molecules expand and excite allowing it them to escape from the smaller exits as well as evaporate off.
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Old 12-30-2010, 05:19 AM   #79
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I have the very same issue with my 03 330xi with the sport and winter package. Only mine pulls to the left under initial braking in the rain. Very unerving!!! ATE slotted rotors up front with Porterfield R4S pads all around. My E30 never had this problem.
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Old 03-03-2011, 09:11 AM   #80
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add me to the list 03 zhp.... scary feeling when you are caught in a traffic jam on a rainy day and everybody starts to slam on their brakes!
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