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Go Back   E46Fanatics > Tuning & Tech > Driveline, Engine & DME Tuning

Driveline, Engine & DME Tuning
Talk about driveline improvements, NA tuning and DME tuning your E46 BMW here. This includes diffs, intakes, exhausts, chips, software and OBD tuning.

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Old 09-27-2009, 02:23 PM   #61
firefirefire90
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so how can you explain the power difference?
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Old 09-27-2009, 03:53 PM   #62
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from 3000-7000 rpms revs alot easier and quicker no questions asked
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Old 09-27-2009, 09:31 PM   #63
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Can't wait for the dyno numbers. I have a 323i with afe intake, uuc pulleys, Shark, 15lbs fly wheel and 330i exhaust(2 pipes all the way back).

I got the m54b30 intake manifold but I think I will install it in the spring after winter.
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Old 09-27-2009, 09:44 PM   #64
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Awesome to see someone finally did it!

I recall the folks out there saying it couldn't be done a long time ago. Nice to see my original post on the subject was of some value.

The key I guess is that Turner made a throttle body adapter plate which wasn't available at the time when I was researching. Without that, it would be impossible to swap because of the larger 330 throttle body.

My thought back then was a 330 manifold with a widened 325 throttle. The speculation I had after looking at some BMW engine management material is that the software would adapt.

I still amagine there is some about of torque gain with the 330 manifold, not sure about HP based on the exchange with Will Turner back then. I do know that he experimented with the 330 manifold but wasn't allowed to race with it due to rules or something.

Quote:
Originally Posted by b/\/\w STREETS View Post
My 2000 bmw 323i m52tu got an intake manifold swap. Got the intake manifold from 2004 bmw 330i m54b30.
Parts need just to complete the swap are:
1-intake manifold m54b30
2-m54b30 disa valve
3- turner motorsports m50/54 throttle body adapter plate


Parts I change while I was in there:
Two hard plastic bypass tubes
One bypass hose
fuel injector o rings
throttle body gasket
intake manifold gasket
all vacuum hoses
CRANKCASE-VENTILATION/OIL SEPARATOR
All the vent pipes/hose that go with it
Also many other misc items:
coolant, water wetter, carb/ throttle body cleaner, engine degreaser, seafoam, and seafoam deep creep

My 323i has 120,xxx miles on it. If the stock hoses/pipes have lasted this long, its good for another 120,xxx.

Now what has to be modified to make this work?
Your throttle body has to be grinded on the top right to be able to clear the idle air control valve
Only two of the four throttle body bolts are used
Also the bracket that holds all the wiring will not bolt back on due to the turner plate. The turner plate moves the throttle body forward causing this problem. (no biggie)
You have to adjust your throttle body cable to be able to open complete at full throttle.

I pretty much just flushed my coolant, cleaned my engine very detailed and cleaned the m54b30 manifold completely.The swap is straight forward, everything is reused again or could be replace with new parts. The m54b30 intake manifold itself is bigger and has longer runners than the m52tu. The first 80-100 miles the car seems to adapt itself to more air flow. The difference is completely different at all rpms. The car just revs freely all the way to redline, no more choking.Well worth the 8 hrs of work and about $400 spent in everything.Any questions feel free to ask


Ps: activ3 the intake ports on the head are D shaped. The port on a stock m52tu are oval and the ports on the m54b30 are D shaped
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Old 09-28-2009, 01:24 AM   #65
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okay, i've been meaning to post an update for a few months now but i've been busy so heres my story...

I did the swap to a M54B30 intake manifold on an M52TUB25 engine and i'm very satisfied with the results. Initially there were minimal gains, but now that the computer has had some time to adapt, the car has a considerable increase in power. everyone who's done the swap has noted that the improvements are all in the top end of the power band and i'd agree with that. something interesting i noticed is that with the original intake manifold the car would "run out of steam" in the upper RPMs when you really leaned on the accelerator, but now the engine feels like its gonna keep revving and pulling far beyond the redline. it also pulls harder when you're accelerating. i also immediately noticed that the car has a more throaty sound when you punch it. also, when you're driving around town, it drives exactly the same as the previous manifold. i unfortunately have no plans of dynoing the car so you're gonna have to wait for another person to install and test their set up if you're looking for hard core numbers, but the butt dyno would guesstimate ~10 to 20 ponies.

for me, the swap was super difficult. don't get me wrong, i know what i'm doing, but this was an absolute nightmare for me. but not from an "i don't know how to do this" perspective, it was difficult from a "i need five more hands to do this" perspective. I found myself having to hold parts in goofy ways and constantly fighting with hoses, wires, and cables to keep everything in its proper places. it might not have been so difficult if i had a friend helping me, but i cant say for sure. wrestling with that was beyond frustrating, but still well worth it.

i decided to go with the b30 manifold because of a posting i found on http://www.apexspeedtech.com/phpbb/index.php regarding a 323i club racer powered by a Pectel stand alone ecu. the guy had an intake, exhaust, the b30 manifold swap, and the stand alone ecu and was netting 248hp! now those are absurd numbers but i liked what was being produced and i'm gonna be tuning my car in a similar manner so i went for it. i paid 100 bucks for it on ebay and only a small vacuum tap on the bottom was damaged on delivery, everything else was in excellent condition.

i didn't like the idea of grinding down my throttle body, nor did i like the idea of pay 60 bucks for something that wasn't right, so i spent some time on autoCAD and drew up a custom adapter plate to keep from grinding down my TB. my neighbor cnc'd it for me and it came out pretty good. i didn't have the luxury of making a perfect fit but its pretty damn close for a first try. everything bolted up without a fuss except when you look through the throttle body there's a slight offset issue (0.01"+/-.005") where the throttle body and the adapter meet for the primary opening. anyone who's interested is welcome to email me and i'll forward the cad drawing to them. i'll post some pictures and measurements of the plate soon.

my next big plan is to bore out a throttle body. i haven't decided whether i want to stick with the M52TU's throttle body or if i want to go through the effort of converting my car to drive by wire and hooking up the stock M54's throttle body. the deciding factor will be which TB can provide a bigger bore. and before you jump down my throat, i'm not just boring aimlessly, i plan on matching it all with the current intake set up i have. if i do decide to bore out the stock TB i'll redraw the adapter plate and fix the little quirks in the drawing. if i do the drive by wire conversion i'll need some help from 'hoveringuy' and his drive by wire project.

so in summary, awesome project! cost me 100 bucks and i'm completely satisfied! i highly recommend it!
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Old 09-28-2009, 07:07 AM   #66
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Awesome post.

Alexxander are you using the 323i or 330i injectors? I guess it does not matter but I got both so I was wondering what you were using.

Also, do you have a cat delete and any software upgrade on your car or just intake and exhaust?

Were you able to use all 4 bolts for the throttle body with your mount or still just the 2? The idea of not having to grind my throttle body is definitely more appealing to anyone doing this.

Once I do this mod I will definitely put it on the dyno.


Quote:
Originally Posted by alexxander.foster View Post
okay, i've been meaning to post an update for a few months now but i've been busy so heres my story...

I did the swap to a M54B30 intake manifold on an M52TUB25 engine and i'm very satisfied with the results. Initially there were minimal gains, but now that the computer has had some time to adapt, the car has a considerable increase in power. everyone who's done the swap has noted that the improvements are all in the top end of the power band and i'd agree with that. something interesting i noticed is that with the original intake manifold the car would "run out of steam" in the upper RPMs when you really leaned on the accelerator, but now the engine feels like its gonna keep revving and pulling far beyond the redline. it also pulls harder when you're accelerating. i also immediately noticed that the car has a more throaty sound when you punch it. also, when you're driving around town, it drives exactly the same as the previous manifold. i unfortunately have no plans of dynoing the car so you're gonna have to wait for another person to install and test their set up if you're looking for hard core numbers, but the butt dyno would guesstimate ~10 to 20 ponies.

for me, the swap was super difficult. don't get me wrong, i know what i'm doing, but this was an absolute nightmare for me. but not from an "i don't know how to do this" perspective, it was difficult from a "i need five more hands to do this" perspective. I found myself having to hold parts in goofy ways and constantly fighting with hoses, wires, and cables to keep everything in its proper places. it might not have been so difficult if i had a friend helping me, but i cant say for sure. wrestling with that was beyond frustrating, but still well worth it.

i decided to go with the b30 manifold because of a posting i found on http://www.apexspeedtech.com/phpbb/index.php regarding a 323i club racer powered by a Pectel stand alone ecu. the guy had an intake, exhaust, the b30 manifold swap, and the stand alone ecu and was netting 248hp! now those are absurd numbers but i liked what was being produced and i'm gonna be tuning my car in a similar manner so i went for it. i paid 100 bucks for it on ebay and only a small vacuum tap on the bottom was damaged on delivery, everything else was in excellent condition.

i didn't like the idea of grinding down my throttle body, nor did i like the idea of pay 60 bucks for something that wasn't right, so i spent some time on autoCAD and drew up a custom adapter plate to keep from grinding down my TB. my neighbor cnc'd it for me and it came out pretty good. i didn't have the luxury of making a perfect fit but its pretty damn close for a first try. everything bolted up without a fuss except when you look through the throttle body there's a slight offset issue (0.01"+/-.005") where the throttle body and the adapter meet for the primary opening. anyone who's interested is welcome to email me and i'll forward the cad drawing to them. i'll post some pictures and measurements of the plate soon.

my next big plan is to bore out a throttle body. i haven't decided whether i want to stick with the M52TU's throttle body or if i want to go through the effort of converting my car to drive by wire and hooking up the stock M54's throttle body. the deciding factor will be which TB can provide a bigger bore. and before you jump down my throat, i'm not just boring aimlessly, i plan on matching it all with the current intake set up i have. if i do decide to bore out the stock TB i'll redraw the adapter plate and fix the little quirks in the drawing. if i do the drive by wire conversion i'll need some help from 'hoveringuy' and his drive by wire project.

so in summary, awesome project! cost me 100 bucks and i'm completely satisfied! i highly recommend it!
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Old 09-28-2009, 12:05 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R1killa View Post
Awesome post.

Alexxander are you using the 323i or 330i injectors? I guess it does not matter but I got both so I was wondering what you were using.

Also, do you have a cat delete and any software upgrade on your car or just intake and exhaust?

Were you able to use all 4 bolts for the throttle body with your mount or still just the 2? The idea of not having to grind my throttle body is definitely more appealing to anyone doing this.

Once I do this mod I will definitely put it on the dyno.

ah! i knew i was forgetting to write about something.

I used the stock injectors and they're working perfectly. i would recommend to anyone that the stock injectors are fine for this project (assuming its N/A). i don't know if putting on the 330's injectors will throw an error code, (b/\/\w STREETS probably would have said something if they did) but its probably pouring in more fuel than the engine needs. the dme will back off the injector pulse duration if they're too big defeating the purpose of putting in larger injectors.

on a side note, I agree with Iceman00, i don't think b/\/\w STREETS was having misfires from the injectors being inadequate for the application. my guess is that the injectors were misfiring because they were clogged. i cant speak for b/\/\w STREETS but when i took my application apart there was dirt EVERYWHERE! there was also some grease from a leaking valve cover which made a disgusting slurry of grime to foul up the injectors (apparently the leak is common for the M52TU). i ended up having to remove each injector because i was worried they were gonna get fouled up. assuming that the injectors are the problem and not something else, my guess (and suggestion) is that if b/\/\w STREETS has his "bad" injectors cleaned and bench tested they'll come back as working fine and wont throw an error code if reinstalled... but thats just my opinion as a shade tree mechanic...

as for mods to my bimmer, i'm just getting started with this car so i only have a cold air intake and the intake manifold. eventually i'll have ebay headers, cat relocation, and true dual exhaust but thats down the line (i'm taking my time). to compliment that i'll have schrick cams, the throttle body bore (i'll do a write up for this when i do it), pulleys, and some other crap i'm forgetting to name-drop. i haven't decided which route i want to go with tuning yet. i'm debating between the powermod piggyback ecu from http://www.bavariacars.com.au/ (who's website is down) or the shark edit if it ever comes out from http://www.bonnevillemotorwerks.com/ (and their website is also down).

lastly, i WAS able to do this install with all four bolts and no grinding. its a tight fit but so is everything else stock in the engine bay. i had four bolts securing the adapter to the intake manifold and four bolts securing the throttle body to the adapter.

to be honest, from a structural perspective, you don't necessarily need all four bolts. were not talking about a part thats very heavy. the throttle body probably weighs about ~10-15 lbs with the intake tubing (at the most). now, i don't know what grade or class bolts bmw uses but THE LOWEST class metric bolts (class 8.8) are good up to 93,000 lbs of yield strength (the point of deformation) each! even if you calculate in the fact that the throttle body is supporting the intake ducting from a distance of up to 18 inches and will be subjected to an absolute max of 5 g's of force (formula 1 race cars don't experience more than this) you're still not getting close to the yield strength of the bolts. so two should be plenty for those of you who want or went that route. but more is always better. bmw put four bolts on there for a reason and i'm not a mechanical engineer...

pics of the adapter plate are to follow soon...
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Old 09-28-2009, 02:22 PM   #68
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okay, here are the pictures of the adapter plate i made. for the record, its not a perfect fit, but its pretty damn good for a first time rendering. plus its a free custom CAD file! all you need to do is have it cnc'd and you're ready. when i bore out my throttle body later this year i'll redo this CAD file and make it fit perfectly but if you absolutely can not wait until then and you want to use my adapter, shoot me an email and i'll send you the .dwg file.

so here are the goofy things about the plate and general info you'll need:

the size of the adapter plate is up to you. i used 0.375" aluminum because it was what i had lying around (this was just a prototype for me so i wasn't concerned so much with the use of specific materials), but you're welcome to use whatever you like. just be aware of the depth of the head on the countersunk bolts you decide to use. the bolts i used ended up having a 0.250" deep head from top to bottom. the taper of the countersunk bolts provides a HUGE surface area (compared to a normal hex head bolt) with which to distribute the weight of the throttle body so you can go pretty thin on the material thickness if you really want to.

the four bolts that secure the adapter plate to the intake manifold are just the openings. countersunk bolts come in different taper angels so instead of forcing you to choose a specific angle i'll give you some flexibility and let you do that part yourself. when you drill the countersink into the adapter plate just center the bit with each opening (including the larger opening [see next paragraph]) and you should be set. unfortunately i don't have a bolt depth for you because it varies based on the material thickness, but the thread is a M6 x1.0.

the upper right hand bolt that secures the adapter plate to the intake manifold is slightly larger than the other three openings. instead of shifting the opening over i just decided to enlarge the opening for the time being. its only off by a millimeter or so which is why i didn't catch it when i was measuring but the enlarged opening should suffice.

you also might have to grind a little bit of the countersunk bolt's head off for the bottom left bolt. its a pretty tight fit but it works. i took a picture of the bolt with the ground down head but it turned out like crap. my camera's battery was dead so i had to use my phone, otherwise i would have taken MUCH better pictures.

the four openings that secure the adapter plate to the throttle body will have to be tapped with an M6 x 1.0 metric tap. the openings are already the proper size so you can just start tapping. I reused the original four bolts that secured the throttle body, but i had to use a single washer for each bolt to shim the bolt heads away from the intake manifold just a little bit (about the same thickness as the washer used on the stock bolts). the 0.375" plate ended up being slightly too shallow to reuse the stock bolts but the extra washers made it a perfect fit.

the four bolts that hold the throttle body to the adapter plate are VERY snug, but they do fit. i struggled getting the four bolts to thread onto the adapter plate once the intake manifold was installed in the car, but they eventually went in. patience.

the last problem is that the large opening doesn't perfectly line up with the throttle body. it lines up perfect with the intake manifold but its about a millimeter off on the throttle body opening. its just aluminum so if it really bothers you, you can grind it down. obviously leaving it will rob you of some power but i'll have this and all the other problems with the plate resolved within the year.

DISCLAIMERS:
the adapter plate isn't a functional part, its only designed to allow two different surfaces to mate; however, i cant be responsible for any damage caused by or by association with the adapter plate.
the purpose of the plate is to keep you from having to modify the intake manifold, throttle body, or any other associated engine parts, but it wont keep you from modifying the adapter plate itself. until i complete the updated adapter plate, the installation will require a little fudging to make it fit right.

i really hope this helps. if you install the plate and have problems please let me know so i can fix it. here are some pictures for your viewing pleasure
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Last edited by alexxander.foster; 09-28-2009 at 02:32 PM.
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Old 09-28-2009, 05:17 PM   #69
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I doubt you can convert your car to run on a DBW setup, but it is worth a shot. I have a spare E46 325 tb lying around, if you want it for testing, let me go.

There used to be a company that did TB enlarging for not a lot of coin. I want to say about $150 max. If I had an extra, I would go that route. I really want to do this, but again I need to do vanos seals and the guibo. I also plan on dynoing the car after this mod, so stay tuned, I will not let you guys down.
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Old 09-28-2009, 05:31 PM   #70
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Maxbore.com charges $250 for electronic TBs, cheaper for cable setups.
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Old 09-28-2009, 06:17 PM   #71
b/\/\w STREETS
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damn dude that tb adapter looks great!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Lots of great info. added, i couldn't have described it better myself of how the car feels with the b30 manifold. As for my 323 injectors, I have no clue but the 330 work better for me
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Old 09-30-2009, 07:16 AM   #72
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Damn it. I am struggling to find someone to CNC this adapter for me. Anyone have a CNC in their garage?
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Old 09-30-2009, 11:24 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by b/\/\w STREETS View Post
disa= 330i
adapter= turner motorsports adapter plate m50/54
Ive newly bought my M54B30 intake (waiting for the TMS adapter) and Im very curious for the results on my M52TU engined 323ci... Ive some questions;

-Could I use original 323ci's Disa valve for the M54B30??What are the disadvantages??
-Can I diamond cut the 323ci Throttle body for better air flow, IF possible?

thanx
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Old 09-30-2009, 01:41 PM   #74
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the 323 disa is too small for the m54b30 manifold you would have a major leak
as far as the throttle body i wouldnt know maybe someone else can answer that for you
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Old 09-30-2009, 06:25 PM   #75
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I want to jump on this before it becomes popular and the M54B30's price suddenly goes up lol


What about the fact that the intake boot and MAF sensor for the M54B30 is a .5in larger than the M52TU's. Could changing that and the TB to the 330's (or enlarge my 323 TB) also increase gains?

Also, will the 325 DISA valve fit on the 330 manifold too? and Im assuming the DISA is plug and play with the 323 connector with no SES light, correct?

Sorry for all the questions, just fine tuning the details so I dont have any surprises along the process
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Old 10-01-2009, 12:51 PM   #76
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All the hoses/pipe were bought at the dealer iceman00
what hoses do I need as extra??.. thanx
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Old 10-01-2009, 07:29 PM   #77
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I think he is mainly speaking of the vacuum lines, and intake boot.
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Old 10-02-2009, 04:05 PM   #78
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I got the TIS documents in PDF for removing and installing both the intake manifold and throttle body. Send me a message if you want me to email it to you.

I am just waiting to get my adapter CNCed to get this done.
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Old 10-02-2009, 04:25 PM   #79
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No, I think it's too small.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alibusoul View Post

Also, will the 325 DISA valve fit on the 330 manifold too? and Im assuming the DISA is plug and play with the 323 connector with no SES light, correct?
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Old 10-02-2009, 08:54 PM   #80
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as for the hoses try to replace as much as possible vacuum and crank case ventilation hoses.
now im in the process to see if 01 or 02 330 maf will help if anything. The 03 and newer have a different plug,so thats a dead end.
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