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Go Back   E46Fanatics > Tuning & Tech > Driveline, Engine & DME Tuning

Driveline, Engine & DME Tuning
Talk about driveline improvements, NA tuning and DME tuning your E46 BMW here. This includes diffs, intakes, exhausts, chips, software and OBD tuning.

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Old 08-06-2009, 12:25 PM   #1
zerodb
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Unhappy Clunk/rattle at idle on 03 ZHP - clutch/flywheel/bearing ???

OK, I'm banging my head against the wall here since I haven't taken anything apart yet.

My wife drives our ZHP (~85k miles) most of the time and she complained that it "sounded funny" when it was idling. My first thought was a bad coil / misfire, but I'm not getting a check engine light at all, which I would have expected.

But when I took the car out for a shakedown run I noticed when idling in neutral it is making a really consistent clunk/rattle sound - but only if the clutch is engaged (pedal up) and in neutral. If I depress the clutch, the rattle stops immediately, but the idle is still a little bit rough. The clunking sound is DEFINITELY coming from the bell housing area but I suppose it could concievably be something in the tranny as opposed to the clutch/flywheel area. I hope not though.


I'm wondering if this is something like a bad release bearing or possibly if one of the springs in the clutch plate is loose and rattling around. Or possibly if there is some damage to the dual-mass flywheel which would help explain the rough idle. I dunno.

Just wondering if anyone's had this one before.
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Old 08-06-2009, 01:39 PM   #2
E36bimmer
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I have heard that on ZHP's with the lighter flywheel this chattering is normal....but I dont agree.

It might be the throwout bearing starting to go, that's what it sounds like to me.

IF it gets worse I would definitely get that checked out. The down side is that you have to take out the transmission to fix it. You might as well do the clutch while you're in there.

Mine has the same sound and I am debating to do the clutch and bearing at the same time I have 95000 miles on mine.
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Old 08-06-2009, 02:27 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E36bimmer View Post
I have heard that on ZHP's with the lighter flywheel...
ZHPs don't have a lighter flywheel. All e46 non-M 6-spds use the same flywheel.
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Old 08-06-2009, 02:30 PM   #4
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Sounds like the release bearing but the only way to know for sure is to drop the transmission. As already mentioned, might as well just plan on doing a full clutch & flywheel replacement while you're in there.
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Old 08-06-2009, 02:37 PM   #5
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I found this a while ago....I thought they had a lighter flywheel

ZHP - Performance Package
The performance package was available on 2003-2005 330 sedans (330i) and 2004-2006 330 coupes and convertibles (330Ci/330Cic). In 2003, it was only available with the 6-speed manual transmission and WITHOUT the premium package. In 2004, all performance package cars were also available with the automatic (steptronic) transmission as well as the premium package.
Obviously, the Performance Package is a level above the Sport Package, so they're not available together.

Per the BMW press release, this package included the following changes. However, many of these claims have been found to be misleading:

Engine mods (new camshafts, electronics, & lighter flywheel) for 10HP & 8 ft/lb of torque increase & 6800 max RPM (from 6500).
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Old 08-06-2009, 04:13 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by E36bimmer View Post
However, many of these claims have been found to be misleading
Bingo!

The 6-spd flywheel is a few pounds lighter than the 5-spd flywheel but this has nothing to do with the Performance Package. It just happens that the 6-spd made its debut on the ZHP.
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Old 08-06-2009, 04:45 PM   #7
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Yeah, I think this is the release bearing, it's pretty loud so I think it's past "starting" to go.

Am I correct in my understanding that this car has a dual-mass flywheel and that it cannot be resurfaced? My wife drives a lot in very high heels (god love her for still being a manual transmission driver!) but I cringe at some of her starts and shifts and I just KNOW I'm not going to be happy with what I see when I drop the tranny. Would this be a good time to switch down to a lighter, traditional flywheel? I've been eyeing those "F1 Racing" clutch/flywheel packages on ebay. I'm sure the slight increase in gear rattle won't be a big issue, I ran around on an unsprung clutch disk for years on another car and the noise never bugged me. Wife always has music up anyway.

Do you guys think this is what's causing the rough idle or do you think I've got another issue there?

I've been chasing a misfire on my stupid Subaru already, don't need one more phantom problem in the garage!
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Old 08-06-2009, 05:05 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zerodb View Post
Do you guys think this is what's causing the rough idle or do you think I've got another issue there?
"Rough idle", "funny noise"... not much to go on there. Doubt it's related to the clutch since it doesn't go away when the clutch is disengaged. Scan for stored codes and report back.
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Old 08-06-2009, 06:00 PM   #9
zerodb
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"Rough idle", "funny noise"... not much to go on there. Doubt it's related to the clutch since it doesn't go away when the clutch is disengaged. Scan for stored codes and report back.
aww, I can't get away with being hopelessly vague?

It does feel a bit like it's missing on one cylinder (sound and vibration wise) but I was thinking that if the pilot or release bearing is getting wonky it could be causing that too. Once the clutch is under any load at all, the car runs smooth as glass which is why I'm thinking this might all be localized.

Now if only I could get my serial port driver to work in Windows 7 I could go take a look at stored codes.
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Old 08-21-2009, 08:25 AM   #10
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I have an '03 330i ZHP. For the longest time when idling in neutral, clutch not depressed, it will periodically "chatter" when the rpm's drop to there lowest at idle (usually looks like 550-600 on the tach). However if I'm sitting in neutral WITH the clutch depressed it purrs like a kitten no matter how low I'm idling. I've never had it checked out, and I've never (yet) had any clutch problems, feels the same as always.
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Old 08-21-2009, 10:38 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MacFady View Post
I have an '03 330i ZHP. For the longest time when idling in neutral, clutch not depressed, it will periodically "chatter" when the rpm's drop to there lowest at idle (usually looks like 550-600 on the tach). However if I'm sitting in neutral WITH the clutch depressed it purrs like a kitten no matter how low I'm idling. I've never had it checked out, and I've never (yet) had any clutch problems, feels the same as always.
Sounds like normal gear rattle. Remember, whenever the clutch is out the transmission input shaft is spinning - even in neutral. When the clutch is depressed, no spinning therefore no noise.
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Old 08-21-2009, 10:45 AM   #12
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I have the same issue...rattle/clacking noise when in neutral and at idle. Once I depress the clutch the sound goes away.

When I took my car in for an Inspection at the dealership, they told me it's the throwout bearing. He said not to worry about it, unless it becomes really loud and unbearable. He said (what others have said above) that you'll need to have the transmission pulled, and might as well change the clutch while you're in there. My car has about 35K miles on it, so it'll be a while before I do this. Per his recommendation, I'll wait until I need to replace the clutch, or it becomes unbearable.
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Old 11-05-2009, 07:56 AM   #13
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I have the same issue on my ZHP. It has only done it 2-3 times but the problem seems to go away for months at a time before returning. Last week was the first time that I noticed when I hold the cluch pedal in the noise would go away but as soon as I let the pedal out the noise would come back. My car has 68,000 miles
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Old 03-25-2010, 06:32 AM   #14
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I've got the same issue on my ZHP. I currently have 140k miles on the car. The noise is present at idle, although if I press the clutch and put the car in gear it goes away. It become very loud as I'm decelerate to a stop with the car in gear. I just replace the clutch, pressure plate and throwout bearing (they were worn) and still no change. Redline tranny fluid also did not help much
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Old 04-06-2010, 09:33 PM   #15
SparklingZHP
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Another victim here.........only 20K miles! I still have CPO warrenty, would they be able to remedy this? It's getting pretty annoying................
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Old 04-06-2010, 10:39 PM   #16
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I noticed mine chattered when I first got it at 35K - I'd hear it while feathering it back into the garage and it was kind of loud. I haven't noticed it lately but I don't usually drive with the windows down. Soon I'll be upgrading my clutch with a sprung hub one and replacing my flywheel. Since a sprung hub clutch is supposed to minimize chatter when used with a single mass flywheel, and a dual mass flywheel is supposed to minimize chatter with a solid disc clutch, imagine them together: I'm figuring UUC Performance Organic + stock flywheel = complete silence. I'm waiting on some parts but I should be able to confirm within a few weeks.
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Old 04-11-2010, 10:09 PM   #17
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you guys need to listen to my Ducati and it's dry clutch action
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Old 04-12-2010, 11:23 PM   #18
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Did you ever try to fix the issue? Did you have to replace the whole transmission? I just took my car to the shop and that's what the mechanic recommended. Hoping it's not coming to that, as I'm only at 95k on my '04 330i. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated!
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Old 04-15-2010, 10:18 PM   #19
ucsbleo
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DISA valve?

So my car is also idling a bit rough:

This is when it's just sitting in neutral. It also makes that awful rattling noise coming from the transmission. However, if I give it a little bit of gas, the rattling goes away (same if I put the clutch in), and it stabilizes the needle.

I found this post on bimmerfest from another person experiencing almost the exact same problem: http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...g+transmission

Could this be a DISA valve problem? What do you guys think? Please help!!
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Old 04-19-2010, 02:15 PM   #20
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Well, given the fact that taking out the transmission is not something I'm comfortable with, I went out and bought a new DISA valve and replaced it over the weekend:


I'm happy to report the rattling completely went away!
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