E46 BMW Social Directory E46 FAQ 3-Series Discussion Forums BMW Photo Gallery BMW 3-Series Technical Information E46 Fanatics - The Ultimate BMW Resource BMW Vendors General E46 Forum The Tire Rack's Tire Wheel Forum Forced Induction Forum The Off-Topic The E46 BMW Showroom For Sale, For Trade or Wanting to Buy

Welcome to the E46Fanatics forums. E46Fanatics is the premiere website for BMW 3 series owners around the world with interactive forums, a geographical enthusiast directory, photo galleries, and technical information for BMW enthusiasts.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

Go Back   E46Fanatics > Everything Else > The Off-Topic > Gun Talk

Gun Talk
Are you a gun fanatic as well? If so, you'll want to talk to other owners about what you own in this forum.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 05-09-2015, 11:52 AM   #1
swordsman11868
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 613
My Ride: 2003 325i
Opinions on building/selling ARs

Hi fellas


I would really appreciate your opinions on building ARs for sale.

I don't have a class 3 so I would have to go through a local gun shop for the lower.

I'm not looking to get rich, really just want to recover parts costs.

Is it too much trouble? Would I be able to at least break even?

Obviously the market has cooled but if it took off again I would be sitting on some gold.

Thanks.
__________________
Crusaders - killing Takfiris since 1096 A.D.
swordsman11868 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2015, 03:27 PM   #2
Rush4theYehO
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 1,444
My Ride: XI fts(now)
Quote:
Originally Posted by swordsman11868 View Post
Hi fellas


I would really appreciate your opinions on building ARs for sale.

I don't have a class 3 so I would have to go through a local gun shop for the lower.

I'm not looking to get rich, really just want to recover parts costs.

Is it too much trouble? Would I be able to at least break even?

Obviously the market has cooled but if it took off again I would be sitting on some gold.

Thanks.
I think this is the landscape - AR's are SO cheap right now, unless you have something special I just don't see it being worth your while.
Rush4theYehO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2015, 07:14 PM   #3
swordsman11868
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 613
My Ride: 2003 325i
That's the feeling I got also just perusing parts prices.

I will actually sit down and cost out a build to be sure but I'll probably just prove your opinion.
__________________
Crusaders - killing Takfiris since 1096 A.D.
swordsman11868 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2015, 11:24 AM   #4
GasKing
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Manhattan
Posts: 637
My Ride: 14 Jeep Wrangler
Start hoarding lowers for the next gun grab. I see them on sale regularly for around $60. When they propose new gun regs just build them up and flip them.
__________________
Lead from the trenches
GasKing is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2015, 03:01 PM   #5
JonJon
Tinfoilhatatarian
 
JonJon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: One of the most evil states ever to exist
Posts: 3,513
My Ride: .
Send a message via AIM to JonJon
The intentions in your OP could be construed as felonious
Remember, a crime is 25% action and 75% intention
__________________
Malo periculosam libertatem quam quietum servitium

Quote:
Originally Posted by 'busa View Post
I agree with JonJon.

Last edited by JonJon; 05-10-2015 at 03:04 PM.
JonJon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2015, 06:07 PM   #6
tailo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: virginia
Posts: 1,372
My Ride: 02 330I
Yup, unlicensed firearms dealer. You would be fine with building uppers but the markets bad right now. We survive because of bulk and good customer service.

As the manager for a 0702 i can tell you to make any money you have to buy parts by the pallet.
tailo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2015, 04:59 AM   #7
Reedo302
Registered User
 
Reedo302's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 7,906
My Ride: F30 328i M Sport
I will also tell you that if you are assembling and building AR components for sale, be aware of civil ramifications is something goes wrong. If you are not insured, you could be sued into poverty should something take a dump. Keep in mind that if a round explodes inside the gun, the ammo and rifle companies are going to point the blame at each other, and I have several stories to back this up if you want a long interesting read. They are probably both going to squarely point the finger at you if they find out that you assembled parts, because they could insinuate that you assembled incorrectly without doing proper procedures like checking headspace and using proper torque specs, etc.

I do builds and customizing as a side-business, but I do it with fellow cops that I know won't screw me over, and only with components that I know work. I also don't go beyond the scope of my training, which is verifiable and recognized by the Minnesota POST Board. I also made them buy their own lower receiver.

Tailo can fill you in on the insurance details that he has, but I know a guy that is a select fire/machinegun manufacturer (LE guns), and he has well over $1,000,000 in insurance coverage.
__________________
DinanTronics Stage 1 F30 328i M Sport



Gunfighter Training Development and Evaluation
AR15/AR10 Armorer/Advanced Armorer
Glock Armorer


Gunfighter Training YouTube Channel

Last edited by Reedo302; 05-17-2015 at 03:46 PM.
Reedo302 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2015, 06:07 PM   #8
swordsman11868
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 613
My Ride: 2003 325i
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonJon View Post
The intentions in your OP could be construed as felonious
Remember, a crime is 25% action and 75% intention

Lol.

Obviously I would go thru my local firearms dealer who charges $35 for the transfer fee.

I appreciate your concern JJ.
__________________
Crusaders - killing Takfiris since 1096 A.D.
swordsman11868 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2015, 06:16 PM   #9
swordsman11868
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 613
My Ride: 2003 325i
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reedo302 View Post
I will also tell you that if you are assembling and building AR components for sale, be aware of civil ramifications is something goes wrong. If you are not insured, you could be sued into poverty should something take a dump. Keep in mind that if a round explodes inside the gun, the ammo and rifle companies are going to point the blame at each other, and I have several stories to back this up if you want a long interesting read. They are probably both going to squarely point the finger at you if they find out that you assembled parts, because they could insinuate that you assembled incorrectly without doing proper procedures like checking headspace and using proper torque specs, etc.

I do builds and customizing as a side-business, but I do it with fellow cops that I know won't screw me over, and only with components that I know work. I also don't go beyond the scope of my training, which is verifiable and recognized by the Minnesota POST Board.

Tailo can fill you in on the insurance details that he has, but I know a guy that is a select fire/machinegun manufacturer (LE guns), and he has well over $1,000,000 in insurance coverage.

What about having your customers sign a waiver?

I'm sure an attorney could whip something up that would absolve you of everything short of gross negligence.

Or what if I sell an AR as is? I make no warranties. Kind of like a car?

You never know what a previous owner might or might not have done to a used car they are selling.

Just sayin.
__________________
Crusaders - killing Takfiris since 1096 A.D.
swordsman11868 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2015, 08:27 PM   #10
david05111
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ponte Vedra, FL
Posts: 4,003
My Ride: drei hundert dreißig
Quote:
Originally Posted by swordsman11868 View Post
Lol.

Obviously I would go thru my local firearms dealer who charges $35 for the transfer fee.

I appreciate your concern JJ.
Honestly, that's not really the issue. You're trying to enter business building and customizing weapons for sale. You're in the business of selling weapons for a profit. Generally, that means you have to be an FFL. And if you were to make one from scratch, you'd need an SOT as a manufacturer.

The issue isn't that you're not transferring it through an FFL; it's that you aren't an FFL.


If I understand your plan correctly, you mean to buy a lower and transfer it to yourself personally through your local FFL. Then you plan to build that lower into a rifle using parts you source places. And then you want to re-sell that rifle, presumably through gunbroker or armslist. Even disregarding the legal issues I've already mentioned, you aren't going to make money doing this. Not at all. People don't pay a premium for franken-builds. It's still a used gun, no matter what. So even if you put $1000 of parts into it + your time, you're not going to get the money back that you put in it. You're gonna lose some in most cases.
__________________


"You'll Never Walk Alone"

"Psycho Murican" -- beeemerdude of Canada

Last edited by david05111; 05-15-2015 at 08:32 PM.
david05111 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2015, 08:19 AM   #11
JonJon
Tinfoilhatatarian
 
JonJon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: One of the most evil states ever to exist
Posts: 3,513
My Ride: .
Send a message via AIM to JonJon
Quote:
Originally Posted by swordsman11868 View Post
Lol.

Obviously I would go thru my local firearms dealer who charges $35 for the transfer fee.

I appreciate your concern JJ.
Still illegal
__________________
Malo periculosam libertatem quam quietum servitium

Quote:
Originally Posted by 'busa View Post
I agree with JonJon.
JonJon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2015, 10:35 AM   #12
swordsman11868
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 613
My Ride: 2003 325i
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonJon View Post
Still illegal

Glad to see the thought police are alive and well.

(Not you JJ - the ATF).
__________________
Crusaders - killing Takfiris since 1096 A.D.
swordsman11868 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2015, 10:42 AM   #13
swordsman11868
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 613
My Ride: 2003 325i
Opinions on building/selling ARs

I wasn't looking to make money building ARs - just a hobby. 1 per year maybe if that.

From the ATF website:

"Any person "engaged in the business" as a manufacturer must obtain a license from ATF.

The term "engaged in the business" means— (A) as applied to a manufacturer of firearms, a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to manufacturing firearms as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the sale or distribution of the firearms manufactured."

https://www.atf.gov/questions-and-answers/firearms-qas
__________________
Crusaders - killing Takfiris since 1096 A.D.

Last edited by swordsman11868; 05-16-2015 at 10:44 AM. Reason: Added link
swordsman11868 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2015, 10:49 AM   #14
david05111
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ponte Vedra, FL
Posts: 4,003
My Ride: drei hundert dreißig
If you built one a year for personal use and then sold it to fund a new project, you'd probably be ok. But again, there's no money in it. You'll lose money, no question. New parts are always coming out and used stuff, even if never fired, isn't worth what you paid for it except for very limited circumstances.

Look, if you want to invest a bit in some stuff for the future with an eye in the next panic, buy ammo and spare parts (BCGs, mags, etc.). Buying lowers with the intent to flip them down the line is a no-no, which admittedly sucks because they're so damn cheap at the moment.
__________________


"You'll Never Walk Alone"

"Psycho Murican" -- beeemerdude of Canada
david05111 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2015, 12:07 PM   #15
Reedo302
Registered User
 
Reedo302's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 7,906
My Ride: F30 328i M Sport
Also, if you want to make money with ARs, buy older KAC/KMC rifles. That, or buy new ones and wait it out. Knight rifles are one of the few rifles that hold their value and can go up.
As david pointed out, selling ARs outright isn't going to net you any profit. You will take a loss no matter what. I have sold new unused AR components before (bought and never used and then cleaned out the parts bin several months down the line), and I took a bath on every component I sold.

Also, buying magazines and ammunition will yield a major profit the next time a panic strikes. If the Dems get the White House in 2016, you can guarantee a gun/ammo/mag panic just like 2008.
__________________
DinanTronics Stage 1 F30 328i M Sport



Gunfighter Training Development and Evaluation
AR15/AR10 Armorer/Advanced Armorer
Glock Armorer


Gunfighter Training YouTube Channel
Reedo302 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2015, 11:39 PM   #16
david05111
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ponte Vedra, FL
Posts: 4,003
My Ride: drei hundert dreißig
Yeah, I really need to get ahold of a Knight's gun one of these days. Unfortunately isn't the type of thing you find in a pawn shop or another random place for an awesome deal though...
__________________


"You'll Never Walk Alone"

"Psycho Murican" -- beeemerdude of Canada
david05111 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2015, 11:17 AM   #17
MP0WER
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Tampa
Posts: 369
My Ride: is fun to drive
Quote:
Originally Posted by david05111 View Post
Yeah, I really need to get ahold of a Knight's gun one of these days. Unfortunately isn't the type of thing you find in a pawn shop or another random place for an awesome deal though...
Here is your chance.

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showpos...8&postcount=54
__________________


"Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else." — Frédéric Bastiat

Last edited by MP0WER; 05-17-2015 at 11:18 AM.
MP0WER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2015, 10:04 PM   #18
swordsman11868
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 613
My Ride: 2003 325i
This vid sums it up rather nicely: "Stop buying and build."

__________________
Crusaders - killing Takfiris since 1096 A.D.
swordsman11868 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2015, 10:25 PM   #19
tailo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: virginia
Posts: 1,372
My Ride: 02 330I
Apparently we know nothing, go for it op.

Its a moot point anyway, he wont sell any for profit, not with out bulk suppliers. Its dang hard enough to sell the damn things when you buy parts by the pallet in todays market. Never mind those pesky laws.

Good luck
tailo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2015, 08:27 AM   #20
david05111
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ponte Vedra, FL
Posts: 4,003
My Ride: drei hundert dreißig
Yeah I've seen that video before. His point is really "if you want an AR, build it yourself" so you get what you want and not what you don't.

You're not going to make money doing this man, I'm telling you. People aren't going to pay you to build them a rifle and they aren't going to pay you what you have in there rifle when you build on end try to sell it.
__________________


"You'll Never Walk Alone"

"Psycho Murican" -- beeemerdude of Canada
david05111 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Censor is OFF





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:00 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
(c) 1999 - 2011 performanceIX Inc - privacy policy - terms of use