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Go Back   E46Fanatics > Tuning & Tech > Driveline, Engine & DME Tuning

Driveline, Engine & DME Tuning
Talk about driveline improvements, NA tuning and DME tuning your E46 BMW here. This includes diffs, intakes, exhausts, chips, software and OBD tuning.

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Old 03-18-2011, 03:53 PM   #1
gurov
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m54b25 stock cam specs (duration, lift, centerline)

so this info seems to be stupid difficult to find, at least for the b25. i'd like to know this for my own benefit to know which way i should tune VVT for my turbo application.

so if someone has info on the b25 stock cams (duration, max lift, centerline,etc) i would be very grateful if it was posted.

i'm putting together a seemingly random database of camshaft arrangements here

http://gurov.us/cam_vis/

to dynamically generate things like this:



in before: pay someone to tune your car, sell your car buy an m3, etc etc.
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Last edited by gurov; 03-18-2011 at 03:54 PM.
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Old 03-18-2011, 04:05 PM   #2
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You need to specify the lift marker.

BMW uses a completely different marker than the aftermarket industry. (Aftermarket = 0.050")
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Old 03-18-2011, 04:24 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PEI330Ci View Post
You need to specify the lift marker.

BMW uses a completely different marker than the aftermarket industry. (Aftermarket = 0.050")
for now, i don't care about the marker. i can figure that one out later. for now i'd like the any lift to closed, i'll go from there.
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Old 03-18-2011, 05:02 PM   #4
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for now, i don't care about the marker. i can figure that one out later. for now i'd like the any lift to closed, i'll go from there.
There is a massive difference between what BMW and Schrick use as lift markers, and what the rest of the aftermarket community uses.

You should care, because the difference on the M54B30 cam for example is in the area of 30 degrees.

I have a set of custom cams from Schrick where the difference is nearly 40 degrees.

Your point of comparison needs to be defined.

BTW, I have a lot of data....
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Old 03-18-2011, 05:28 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PEI330Ci View Post
There is a massive difference between what BMW and Schrick use as lift markers, and what the rest of the aftermarket community uses.

You should care, because the difference on the M54B30 cam for example is in the area of 30 degrees.

I have a set of custom cams from Schrick where the difference is nearly 40 degrees.

Your point of comparison needs to be defined.

BTW, I have a lot of data....
are you talking about lift that's greater than some pre-defined value that actually makes a difference, or lift that's greater than 0.0000000000000000 mm. i.e. the point when the lobe starts to act on the bucket/lifter/valve, and the valve is no longer ON the seat.

i fully realize that there's going to be a difference between lift of a micron and lift of 1mm.

how about the centerline then ? that's going to be the same regardless of what the definition of lift is.
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Old 03-18-2011, 08:58 PM   #6
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Factory

M52TU 228 inlet With 9.0mm lift 244 exhaust With 9.0mm lift all engines
M54 228 inlet With 9.0mm lift 244 exhaust With 9.0mm lift up to B25
M54 240 inlet With 9.7mm lift 244 exhaust With 9.0mm lift for the B30 Engine

Shrick

248/248 : 10.0mm/10.0mm (Schrick NA)
264/248 : 10.5mm/10.0mm (Schrick NA)
248/256 : 10.0mm/10.4mm (Technik FI)
260/268 : 10.9mm/11.0mm (Technik FI)

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthr...446&highlight=
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Old 03-18-2011, 10:37 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceman00 View Post
Factory

M52TU 228 inlet With 9.0mm lift 244 exhaust With 9.0mm lift all engines
M54 228 inlet With 9.0mm lift 244 exhaust With 9.0mm lift up to B25
M54 240 inlet With 9.7mm lift 244 exhaust With 9.0mm lift for the B30 Engine

Shrick

248/248 : 10.0mm/10.0mm (Schrick NA)
264/248 : 10.5mm/10.0mm (Schrick NA)
248/256 : 10.0mm/10.4mm (Technik FI)
260/268 : 10.9mm/11.0mm (Technik FI)

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthr...446&highlight=
awesome, thank you.

any idea on the centerline ? or intake open/intake close, exhaust open/exhaust close ?
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Old 08-30-2011, 09:34 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Iceman00 View Post
Factory

M52TU 228 inlet With 9.0mm lift 244 exhaust With 9.0mm lift all engines
M54 228 inlet With 9.0mm lift 244 exhaust With 9.0mm lift up to B25
M54 240 inlet With 9.7mm lift 244 exhaust With 9.0mm lift for the B30 Engine

Shrick

248/248 : 10.0mm/10.0mm (Schrick NA)
264/248 : 10.5mm/10.0mm (Schrick NA)
248/256 : 10.0mm/10.4mm (Technik FI)
260/268 : 10.9mm/11.0mm (Technik FI)

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthr...446&highlight=
Wrong on exhaust duration on M54 engines, the duration is 228 for the exhaust and not 244. Rest of the info is correct
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Old 08-30-2011, 09:42 PM   #9
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Wrong on exhaust duration on M54 engines, the duration is 228 for the exhaust and not 244. Rest of the info is correct
I presume you're referring specifically to M54B25 and not M54B30?
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Old 08-30-2011, 11:25 PM   #10
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I'm almost positive I'm correct on this, where are your sources?
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Old 08-30-2011, 11:57 PM   #11
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I'm almost positive I'm correct on this, where are your sources?
I have the B30 head here, measured the duration and lift. There is no way in any stock figuration that exhaust will have more cam lift duration than intake camshaft. I confirmed that M54B30 exhaust camshaft has about 225 ro 228 duration and 9mm lift.
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Old 08-31-2011, 05:12 AM   #12
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And we're back to the statement I made above: What lift marker are you using?
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Old 08-31-2011, 03:48 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by HakenTT View Post
I have the B30 head here, measured the duration and lift. There is no way in any stock figuration that exhaust will have more cam lift duration than intake camshaft. I confirmed that M54B30 exhaust camshaft has about 225 ro 228 duration and 9mm lift.
I think your duration is off, ALL M52TU/M54 exhaust cams are the same, and it should be 240 Duration 9.0mm lift. The intake Should be about 228 duration and 9.0mm of lift. The B30's intake cam is 244 duration and 9.7mm lift and of course there is more overlap in the cam profile.
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Old 08-31-2011, 04:05 PM   #14
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I think your duration is off, ALL M52TU/M54 exhaust cams are the same, and it should be 240 Duration 9.0mm lift. The intake Should be about 228 duration and 9.0mm of lift. The B30's intake cam is 244 duration and 9.7mm lift and of course there is more overlap in the cam profile.
Do you have M54 head or exhaust cam there? I can prove it to you that is 225 duration, if you have the cam there or have the valve cover off your M54 engine. For 240 duration the cam lob point will be dull and not sharp. You are going off what you found on internet and not acutaly measured the specs.
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Old 08-31-2011, 04:40 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by HakenTT View Post
Do you have M54 head or exhaust cam there? I can prove it to you that is 225 duration, if you have the cam there or have the valve cover off your M54 engine. For 240 duration the cam lob point will be dull and not sharp. You are going off what you found on internet and not acutaly measured the specs.
No need to be condesending, my information comes from published BMW data. As far as I'm concerned, you could be a money with tools. Just saying.
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Old 08-31-2011, 05:15 PM   #16
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No need to be condesending, my information comes from published BMW data. As far as I'm concerned, you could be a money with tools. Just saying.
Out of curiosity, where is this info published? I've seen a lot of people post those numbers, but I don't think I've ever actually seen a source
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Old 08-31-2011, 09:40 PM   #17
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Cams will have the same duration on both or intake duration will be longer than exhaust.
Longer duration on exhaust side doesn't make sense because intake is denser and in higher volume, the exhaust will be less in volume. So if you use longer duration exhaust cam than intake cam, things will run worse. Schrick hot cam set for M54 is only 248 duration on exhaust side. And your data claims, stock M54 is 240 duration, no way.

Look at shrick specs,

Schrick manufactures the finest camshafts from premium blank cores in their state of the art facility in Germany. We have used Schrick cams in hundreds of engine builds and continue to be impressed by their quality and consistent output in every application.
VAC is one of the country's exclusive and most knowledgeable dealers of Schrick components. We always keep a variety of Schrick cams for a range of applications in-stock. If you have any questions, just talk to one of our engine consultants to guide you into the proper camshaft for your application.
Chose from:
>M52tu (320i, 328i, 520i, 528i etc):

248/248 In/Ex 10.0mm/10.0mm - Set
>M54 (330i, 530i, X5 3.0, Z4, etc):

264/248 In/Ex 10.5mm/10.0mm - Set
272/256 In/Ex 10.9mm/10.4mm - Set
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Old 09-02-2011, 10:21 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by TerraPhantm View Post
Out of curiosity, where is this info published? I've seen a lot of people post those numbers, but I don't think I've ever actually seen a source
Now I have to dig this stuff up again.
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Old 09-02-2011, 10:26 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by HakenTT View Post
Cams will have the same duration on both or intake duration will be longer than exhaust.
Longer duration on exhaust side doesn't make sense because intake is denser and in higher volume, the exhaust will be less in volume. So if you use longer duration exhaust cam than intake cam, things will run worse. Schrick hot cam set for M54 is only 248 duration on exhaust side. And your data claims, stock M54 is 240 duration, no way.

Look at shrick specs,

Schrick manufactures the finest camshafts from premium blank cores in their state of the art facility in Germany. We have used Schrick cams in hundreds of engine builds and continue to be impressed by their quality and consistent output in every application.
VAC is one of the country's exclusive and most knowledgeable dealers of Schrick components. We always keep a variety of Schrick cams for a range of applications in-stock. If you have any questions, just talk to one of our engine consultants to guide you into the proper camshaft for your application.
Chose from:
>M52tu (320i, 328i, 520i, 528i etc):

248/248 In/Ex 10.0mm/10.0mm - Set
>M54 (330i, 530i, X5 3.0, Z4, etc):

264/248 In/Ex 10.5mm/10.0mm - Set
272/256 In/Ex 10.9mm/10.4mm - Set
You are aware there are a few cars that use a longer exhaust cam duration than intake. My Nissan Altima had the KA24DE motor with 240/248, the same motor in a 240sx had 232/232 or 232/240. The longer exhaust cam duration is probably to compensate for a crappy exhaust system. Something the Nissans and BMWs have in common.
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Old 09-02-2011, 11:11 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by HakenTT View Post
Do you have M54 head or exhaust cam there? I can prove it to you that is 225 duration, if you have the cam there or have the valve cover off your M54 engine. For 240 duration the cam lob point will be dull and not sharp. You are going off what you found on internet and not acutaly measured the specs.
I've got a whole stack of M54 heads and cams. I've actually "tried" to test cam duration and ran into a pretty big problem.

If you are measuring the cam directly, you need to have an extremely precise way of measuring the cam's location, or timing. Lift isn't an issue, that's easy, timing is tough because you need to understand how the lobe centers are located, and also have a means of measuring in 1/2 degree increments.

Remember, 1 degree of cam rotation is 2 degrees of crank rotation, which is what everyone relates to when talking about cams.

So, tell me step by step how you made this measurement, and what fixture you used.....because I've got a mountain of tools at my disposal and wasn't able to get within 5 degrees accuracy repeatedly. Tell me what you did, and I'll tell you why I ran into problems.

Last edited by PEI330Ci; 09-02-2011 at 11:13 AM.
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