Is my friend correct on this theory...

Here is my theory on Religion.. I consider myself religious to an extent.. I definitely believe in God, and I have certain instances in my life that I can go back to and it feels like there were someone watching over Myself, or a family member, etc.. There are certain things that happen such as car accidents, where each person is in a horrible accident, same injuries, one dies, one lives, it seems as though it was just their time to go.. but anyway.

The problem that I have with religion is the way it is used to single out groups of people.. I have a very hard time with that becaus as a christian you are supposed to believe that God loves everyone, but it seems nowadays people have skewed that to "god loves everyone as long as you dont do something I dont agree with" For instance, gay people, Catholics say being gay is a sin, but as a christian we also believe that God made everything, so if he MADE gay people, how can he hate them? People use religion as an excuse to do bad sh1t, speak hate, and wage war on certain groups of people, and I think that is really wrong, which is why I do not go to church, I feel like God knows that I believe in him, and I do my best to be a decent person, and pray every night. I can assure you that I am better than a lot of the hypocrites that go to Church every sunday and then JUDGE me because I drink, or curse, etc.

In conclusion, Religion is a great thing, as long as you use it to its full potential, and do not fall into the trap of using it to single people out. I get very angry with agnostics, and atheists ESPECIALLY on this board, because I do not push my views on ANYONE, yet it seems the first chance they can get to bash religion they take it and run..making them JUST AS BAD as the bible thumpers.

Originally Posted by UberBimmer

Here is my theory on Religion.. I consider myself religious to an extent.. I definitely believe in God, and I have certain instances in my life that I can go back to and it feels like there were someone watching over Myself, or a family member, etc.. There are certain things that happen such as car accidents, where each person is in a horrible accident, same injuries, one dies, one lives, it seems as though it was just their time to go.. but anyway.

The problem that I have with religion is the way it is used to single out groups of people.. I have a very hard time with that becaus as a christian you are supposed to believe that God loves everyone, but it seems nowadays people have skewed that to "god loves everyone as long as you dont do something I dont agree with" For instance, gay people, Catholics say being gay is a sin, but as a christian we also believe that God made everything, so if he MADE gay people, how can he hate them? People use religion as an excuse to do bad sh1t, speak hate, and wage war on certain groups of people, and I think that is really wrong, which is why I do not go to church, I feel like God knows that I believe in him, and I do my best to be a decent person, and pray every night. I can assure you that I am better than a lot of the hypocrites that go to Church every sunday and then JUDGE me because I drink, or curse, etc.

In conclusion, Religion is a great thing, as long as you use it to its full potential, and do not fall into the trap of using it to single people out. I get very angry with agnostics, and atheists ESPECIALLY on this board, because I do not push my views on ANYONE, yet it seems the first chance they can get to bash religion they take it and run..making them JUST AS BAD as the bible thumpers.

Catholics say everything is a sin. Basically, we cant get out of the house without sinning lol. Which is fine, sin is human nature. But remember, that the weight of a sin is determined by God himself, not man. Which is why I dont understand how people can judge each other. You should consider going to church again, not just because you are a God fearing man, but to support your community, to pray together, and honor the sabbath. Dont let the words of a few clowns from your church drive you away (I know youre not actually driven away from believing in God, but it has driven you away from coming to church to some extent).

All Christians/religious people are hypocrites, we believe something or tell someone whats right or wrong and usually end up making the same mistake. But like you said man, ultimately, its your actions that really speak who you are.

Originally Posted by firefirefire90

just throwing this out there, because it needs to be said, you cannot be "correct" on "theory."



This is why it is THEORY and not TRUTH

You need to look up the meaning of 'theory' in scientific terms. Sherlock Holmes' theory and Albert Einstein's theory are not quite the same. See below:

Originally Posted by pwrsld12

Dont continue this bullSh*t. seriously F*ck you

Stephen Hawking in A Brief History of Time states, "A theory is a good theory if it satisfies two requirements: It must accurately describe a large class of observations on the basis of a model that contains only a few arbitrary elements, and it must make definite predictions about the results of future observations." He goes on to state, "Any physical theory is always provisional, in the sense that it is only a hypothesis; you can never prove it. No matter how many times the results of experiments agree with some theory, you can never be sure that the next time the result will not contradict the theory. On the other hand, you can disprove a theory by finding even a single observation that disagrees with the predictions of the theory.

The beauty of science is that it is not stubbornly sticking to whatever it once claimed but constantly grows as new information is found.

Originally Posted by Lexie330ci

I dont understand why evolution and creationism cant be one of the same. Did God create the universe in 7 days? I didnt realize God was bound by time. Could 7 "days" really mean 7 billion years? I dont see why not. However, I feel that there is a divine hand that guides the overall evolution of species. I have worked in the microbiology field for quite a while. The way amino acids interact, the way certain processes occur, and the overall big picture of organic beings makes it very difficult to believe that something came from nothing.

Biology contains no proof of any divinity of any kind. Check out http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/ for some great science stuff (often as it relates to religion).

Originally Posted by Lexie330ci

Your ears are a perfect example. In your ears there are little hairs. When a sound wave comes in contact with the ear, it is funneled into the ear, where a series of mechanical movements create (almost like dominos) creates a shifting of the base of these hairs cells, moving them back and forth. The rocking of these hair cells, somehow, through a series of protein channel openings on the membranes of each cell connecting the ear to the brain, allow the brain to interpret this forward/backward movement of hair cells as sound. The wierd thing is, I just made it sound so much simpler than it really is, and with that, its hard to believe this was a random act of evolution, especially considering the thousands of similar functions that happen in the human body.

Because you made it simpler than it really is and used the word somehow, it seems like it should be a miracle. When, instead it is just a product of evolution. Species whose hearing did not evolve like ours either did not survive or adapted in another way. There are plenty of animals out there with bad or non-existent vision and hearing organs. Does that mean that God failed at designing them?

Originally Posted by Owtlaw333

I fvcking hate this example. It's such a cop-out. It's like saying "look at the computer... there's no way a man could create such a complex object... it must be alien!" Of course that would be an easy explanation for someone looking at a computer for the first time, but once you take a look at the history of the first circuits and subsequently microchips, it's not quite so hard to understand.

What I'm getting at is, the ear, eye, tongue and nose may appear to be extremely complex, but they're nothing more than simple data receptors that evolved to suit various circumstances better over time based on external stimulus.

Originally Posted by Lexie330ci

There is intelligent design behind the making of a computer. I didnt say we couldnt understand it. In fact we have the entire genome mapped out. Its just difficult for me to believe that it just came to be. Not trying to cop out.

That what came to be?

Originally Posted by dniper71

This topic always goes back to the origins of life and thats where things get tricky. I personally think its a bit irrational to be 100% certain that there is a god or vice versa... neither side has the tools to prove their position (evolution is a given... but it doesn't touch the origins of life/universe)

Agreed. That said, the odds that any of our religions are true are infinitesimally microscopic.

Originally Posted by dniper71

I will give in to religion on the point that its nearly impossible to explain how something came from nothing... that is a fair and logical question to ask. However, the next conclusion they draw from this question is that there must be some supreme being (which is responsible for life), but more importantly, they claim to know exactly what that supreme being wants and thats where religion loses a ton of points in the logic department.

Even if there is some form of a higher power, how do you know what his demands are? How do you know that he cares about you? How do you know that he wants you to be good and not evil? You don't. But that doesn't stop religion from presenting its opinion of what they think god demands as absolute facts. So even if there is some form of a supreme being, religion is still forming conclusions from thin air and this has no place in any logical discussion.

I replied to the other part of your post before I read this. As you can tell, I agree.

These threads are proof that no good can come with religion.

1. more people have been killed in the name of god than anything else

He says that the scientific odds of the world being created "scientifically", and not by a higher power are somewhere along the lines of a tornado going through a junk yard and a car being put together as all the parts are being whipped around.

2. he thinks there's a better chance of an invisible man creating the world than something that actually makes sense?riiiiiiight

3. what are believers thoughts on the discovery of gravity and other provable theories. i never read much into that

Originally Posted by hayabusa55

You need to look up the meaning of 'theory' in scientific terms. Sherlock Holmes' theory and Albert Einstein's theory are not quite the same. See below:
The beauty of science is that it is not stubbornly sticking to whatever it once claimed but constantly grows as new information is found.


Biology contains no proof of any divinity of any kind. Check out http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/ for some great science stuff (often as it relates to religion).

Because you made it simpler than it really is and used the word somehow, it seems like it should be a miracle. When, instead it is just a product of evolution. Species whose hearing did not evolve like ours either did not survive or adapted in another way. There are plenty of animals out there with bad or non-existent vision and hearing organs. Does that mean that God failed at designing them?



That what came to be?

Agreed. That said, the odds that any of our religions are true are infinitesimally microscopic.

I replied to the other part of your post before I read this. As you can tell, I agree.

A lot of what youre saying is good info, but I will repeat my beliefs again. Evolution makes perfect sense to me, but I feel that evolution works too fast and too perfectly, which is why I believe there is some higher power guiding it. I understand if you dont feel the same. I understand that many people view science as what it is- Science. But science to me is beautiful, and because of how much I appreciate it and am in love with it, I cant help but feel that it is some kind of gift or revelation to us. I know what im saying probably doesnt make sense or sounds stupid, and I apologize ahead of time. Biology contains plenty of proof of divinity to me, it just depends on how you look at it. You can look at your children as a human being that shares the same genetic traits as you and your wife. Or you can look at it as this marvelous creation for whom which the love you have for him/her has no earthly description. Im probably digging myself into a deeper hole so Ill just stop lol

Originally Posted by andrewrossnagel

1. more people have been killed in the name of god than anything else

He says that the scientific odds of the world being created "scientifically", and not by a higher power are somewhere along the lines of a tornado going through a junk yard and a car being put together as all the parts are being whipped around.

2. he thinks there's a better chance of an invisible man creating the world than something that actually makes sense?riiiiiiight

3. what are believers thoughts on the discovery of gravity and other provable theories. i never read much into that

1) people kill for their own selfish reasons.
2) But instead there is an invisible force called entropy that drives the creation of universes? Makes sense to me! (seriously).
3) Im a believer, I believe in science.

Originally Posted by Lexie330ci

Evolution makes perfect sense to me, but I feel that evolution works too fast and too perfectly,

Too fast? The earth is 4,500,000,000 years old. Human ancestry only dates back about 200,000 to 250,000 years.

As far as working too perfectly... It works perfectly if you're looking back, instead of forward. We (and other animals) evolve with our world. Evolution is unforgiving and if species have traits that make them inept to survive, they die out. That's why, looking back, you think everything fits. If, however, you had an idea of what humans should be like in the future, and actually got to see that future, you may be surprised what you see.

Originally Posted by Lexie330ci

which is why I believe there is some higher power guiding it. I understand if you dont feel the same. I understand that many people view science as what it is- Science. But science to me is beautiful, and because of how much I appreciate it and am in love with it, I cant help but feel that it is some kind of gift or revelation to us.

I find science beautiful too, as well as the mystic nature of the universe and even the wonderful creations of man such as music and architecture devoted to religion. None if it is any evidence of a higher being to me.

Originally Posted by Lexie330ci

I know what im saying probably doesnt make sense or sounds stupid, and I apologize ahead of time.

You don't have to call your own views stupid or apologize for them. I'm glad each of us gets to express their opinion and if we one of us doesn't manage to convince the other, we may understand each other better at the end.

Originally Posted by Lexie330ci

Biology contains plenty of proof of divinity to me, it just depends on how you look at it. You can look at your children as a human being that shares the same genetic traits as you and your wife. Or you can look at it as this marvelous creation for whom which the love you have for him/her has no earthly description. Im probably digging myself into a deeper hole so Ill just stop lol

Just because love and emotion are products of evolution that have helped the human species survive, doesn't mean that they're any less significant to me than if I assigned heavenly meaning to them.

Originally Posted by Lexie330ci

1) people kill for their own selfish reasons.

Like salvation, martyrdom, spreading their religion or fighting for their god?

Originally Posted by Lexie330ci

2) But instead there is an invisible force called entropy that drives the creation of universes? Makes sense to me! (seriously).

Arguing the creation of the universe is a last ditch 'god of the gaps' strategy. Certain things are not sufficiently explained yet.

Originally Posted by Lexie330ci

3) Im a believer, I believe in science.

Originally Posted by 4mused

These threads are proof that no good can come with religion.

Some art... that's about all I've gotten out of it, lol.

gods a real d-bag

Originally Posted by hayabusa55

Too fast? The earth is 4,500,000,000 years old. Human ancestry only dates back about 200,000 to 250,000 years.
I know, I still think that given the size of our universe and the complexity of an atom which we have yet to discover, I still feel like its all happened rather quickly. Im Indian, we are bad with time in general lol.


Just because love and emotion are products of evolution that have helped the human species survive, doesn't mean that they're any less significant to e than if I assigned heavenly meaning to them. By B, I wasnt trying to make it sound like you need religion to love. Its just that love does not follow the scientific guidelines of evolution, in that the strong survive. I say this only because love makes people do crazy things. Such as love for your country, will send some into war and maybe even to their death. Or love for a child, would make families put theirselves through a lot to provide a better living environment for their kids. I dont think love will ever be able to be explained scientifically (Im sure someone already has though lol)


Like salvation, martyrdom, spreading their religion or fighting for their god?
Arguing the creation of the universe is a last ditch 'god of the gaps' strategy. Certain things are not sufficiently explained yet. Like I said, people will do crazy things for what they love, even love for God. People who claim they are fighting for their god are mostly fanatics anyway. Its all mob mentality at that point. Remember that I believe in a God that was "killed" because others felt it was religiously proper. This alone is the greatest evidence (for me) that people carry out their own intentions while using religion as a crutch.

^_^

1: Evolution guided by God.

Also known as "theistic evolution." Among progressive and moderate believers, this is an extremely common position on evolution. They readily (and rightly) dismiss the claims of young-earth creationists that humanity and all the universe were created in one swell foop 6,000 years ago. They dismiss these claims as utterly contradicted by the evidence. Instead, they say that evolution proceeds exactly as the biologists say it does, but this process is guided by God, to bring humanity and the vast variety of life into being.

A belief that is almost as thoroughly contradicted by the evidence as young-earth creationism is.

Nowhere in anatomy, nowhere in genetics, nowhere in the fossil record or the geological record or any of the physical records of evolution, is there even the slightest piece of evidence for divine intervention.

Quite the contrary. If there had been a divine hand tinkering with the process, we would expect evolution to have proceeded radically differently than it has. We would expect to see, among the changes in anatomy from generation to generation, at least an occasional instance of the structure being tweaked in non-gradual ways. We would expect to see -- oh, say, just for a random example -- human knees and backs better designed for bipedal animals than quadrupeds. (She said bitterly, putting an ice pack on her bad knee.) We would expect to see the blind spot in the human eye done away with, perhaps replaced with the octopus design that doesn't have a blind spot. We would expect to see the vagus nerve re-routed so it doesn't wander all over hell and gone before getting where it's going. We would expect to see a major shift in the risk-benefit analysis that's wired into our brains, one that better suits a 70-year life expectancy than a 35-year one. We would expect to see... I could go on, and on, and on.

And it's not just humans. We'd expect to see whales with gills, pandas with real thumbs, ostriches without those stupid useless wings.
We don't see any of this.

What we see instead is exactly what we would expect to see if evolution proceeded entirely as a natural, physical process. We see "designs" of living things that are flawed and inefficient and just plain goofy: "designs" that exist for no earthly reason except the slow incrementalism that's an inherent part of the physical process of evolution. We see anatomical adaptations severely constrained by the fact that each generation can only be a slight modification on the previous generation, with no sudden jumps to a different basic version. We see anatomical adaptations severely constrained by the fact that each new version has to be an improvement on the previous version (or at least, not a deterioration from it). We see a vast preponderance of evidence showing that evolution proceeds very slowly, very gradually, with the anatomy of each generation being only slightly altered (if at all) from that of the previous generation.

And that isn't how things designed by a conscious designer, or even things tinkered with by a conscious designer, work.

Even when a designer is stuck with the outlines of a previous design, they can still make significant, non-incremental changes. They can tear out the cabinets and replace them with windows, and move the stove to the other side of the room where the fridge is now. They're not stuck with moving the stove one inch at a time, once every week or year or twenty years. And they're not stuck with a system in which every inch that the stove moves has to be an improvement on the previous inch. They're not stuck with a system where, if the stove has been moving across the floor in a series of incremental improvements, it's going to have to stop if it starts blocking the door... because blocking the door is a serious disadvantage.

And if a designer is omnipotent, they're not even stuck with the outlines of a previous design. They're not stuck with anything at all. Why on earth would an all-powerful and benevolent god, a god who's capable of magically altering DNA, bring life into being by the slow, cruel, violent, inefficient, tacked- together- with- duct- tape process of evolution in the first place?
Now, it's true that we do see some evidence for what are sometimes called "jumps" in the fossil record: evidence that evolutionary changes sometimes happen very slowly, and sometimes happen more rapidly. (It's a controversial position, but it is one held by some respected evolutionary biologists.) And some believers in theistic evolution leap onto this hypothesis and hang on like it's the last helicopter out of Saigon.

But the "rapid jumps" thing is very misleading. "Rapid," in evolutionary terms, means "taking place over a few hundred years instead of a few thousand" (or "a few thousand years instead of a few hundred thousand.") And as recent research has repeatedly shown, evolution can take place surprisingly rapidly, in a matter of decades... and still be an entirely natural process of small changes, incremental alterations in each generation from the previous one. Exactly as we would expect if evolution were an entirely natural, physical process of descent with modification. So even if this "rapid jumps" (or "punctuated equilibrium") hypothesis is true, it still doesn't point to theistic evolution. Not even a little bit.

Again: There is not the slightest bit of evidence supporting the idea of evolution guided by God. And there is a significant body of evidence that strongly suggests the contrary.

Wow tons of BS here!
some of you guys are so full of it

Originally Posted by hayabusa55

1: Evolution guided by God.

Also known as "theistic evolution." Among progressive and moderate believers, this is an extremely common position on evolution. They readily (and rightly) dismiss the claims of young-earth creationists that humanity and all the universe were created in one swell foop 6,000 years ago. They dismiss these claims as utterly contradicted by the evidence. Instead, they say that evolution proceeds exactly as the biologists say it does, but this process is guided by God, to bring humanity and the vast variety of life into being.

A belief that is almost as thoroughly contradicted by the evidence as young-earth creationism is.

Nowhere in anatomy, nowhere in genetics, nowhere in the fossil record or the geological record or any of the physical records of evolution, is there even the slightest piece of evidence for divine intervention.

Quite the contrary. If there had been a divine hand tinkering with the process, we would expect evolution to have proceeded radically differently than it has. We would expect to see, among the changes in anatomy from generation to generation, at least an occasional instance of the structure being tweaked in non-gradual ways. We would expect to see -- oh, say, just for a random example -- human knees and backs better designed for bipedal animals than quadrupeds. (She said bitterly, putting an ice pack on her bad knee.) We would expect to see the blind spot in the human eye done away with, perhaps replaced with the octopus design that doesn't have a blind spot. We would expect to see the vagus nerve re-routed so it doesn't wander all over hell and gone before getting where it's going. We would expect to see a major shift in the risk-benefit analysis that's wired into our brains, one that better suits a 70-year life expectancy than a 35-year one. We would expect to see... I could go on, and on, and on.

And it's not just humans. We'd expect to see whales with gills, pandas with real thumbs, ostriches without those stupid useless wings.
We don't see any of this.

What we see instead is exactly what we would expect to see if evolution proceeded entirely as a natural, physical process. We see "designs" of living things that are flawed and inefficient and just plain goofy: "designs" that exist for no earthly reason except the slow incrementalism that's an inherent part of the physical process of evolution. We see anatomical adaptations severely constrained by the fact that each generation can only be a slight modification on the previous generation, with no sudden jumps to a different basic version. We see anatomical adaptations severely constrained by the fact that each new version has to be an improvement on the previous version (or at least, not a deterioration from it). We see a vast preponderance of evidence showing that evolution proceeds very slowly, very gradually, with the anatomy of each generation being only slightly altered (if at all) from that of the previous generation.

And that isn't how things designed by a conscious designer, or even things tinkered with by a conscious designer, work.

Even when a designer is stuck with the outlines of a previous design, they can still make significant, non-incremental changes. They can tear out the cabinets and replace them with windows, and move the stove to the other side of the room where the fridge is now. They're not stuck with moving the stove one inch at a time, once every week or year or twenty years. And they're not stuck with a system in which every inch that the stove moves has to be an improvement on the previous inch. They're not stuck with a system where, if the stove has been moving across the floor in a series of incremental improvements, it's going to have to stop if it starts blocking the door... because blocking the door is a serious disadvantage.

And if a designer is omnipotent, they're not even stuck with the outlines of a previous design. They're not stuck with anything at all. Why on earth would an all-powerful and benevolent god, a god who's capable of magically altering DNA, bring life into being by the slow, cruel, violent, inefficient, tacked- together- with- duct- tape process of evolution in the first place?
Now, it's true that we do see some evidence for what are sometimes called "jumps" in the fossil record: evidence that evolutionary changes sometimes happen very slowly, and sometimes happen more rapidly. (It's a controversial position, but it is one held by some respected evolutionary biologists.) And some believers in theistic evolution leap onto this hypothesis and hang on like it's the last helicopter out of Saigon.

But the "rapid jumps" thing is very misleading. "Rapid," in evolutionary terms, means "taking place over a few hundred years instead of a few thousand" (or "a few thousand years instead of a few hundred thousand.") And as recent research has repeatedly shown, evolution can take place surprisingly rapidly, in a matter of decades... and still be an entirely natural process of small changes, incremental alterations in each generation from the previous one. Exactly as we would expect if evolution were an entirely natural, physical process of descent with modification. So even if this "rapid jumps" (or "punctuated equilibrium") hypothesis is true, it still doesn't point to theistic evolution. Not even a little bit.

Again: There is not the slightest bit of evidence supporting the idea of evolution guided by God. And there is a significant body of evidence that strongly suggests the contrary.

This article is written by a critic, not a scientist. And though she has good points, many of them I cannot argue with, as I do not know the answer myself. Such as, if there was a creator, why arent we super humans living in a better place (summary) than earth. This is where I have to fall back on the cliched phrase that I know every non-believer hates, which is- There is a divine plan for us, we just dont know what it is. Many of her questions address God directly, such as why do this and not this. ****, I dont have the answers to those, nor do I know how to get those answers for you. BUT, the same could be said for many scientific processes as well. Such as, why are we not made from silicon rather than oxygen, or since the universe is "so old," why didnt we all develop into cyanobacteria since they are the most biologically advanced creatures? And the answer is, I dont know. You can make the argument that scientists will eventually find out why this happened and not that (theories, not sound facts), but as time progresses and the level of disorder increases in our system, we will just have more and more questions. Thats life. But saying there is no presence of divine intervention in science is pretty much saying we know everything, which we dont. Good article still. It is actually much longer on her blog.

Originally Posted by Lexie330ci

This article is written by a critic, not a scientist. And though she has good points, many of them I cannot argue with, as I do not know the answer myself. Such as, if there was a creator, why arent we super humans living in a better place (summary) than earth. This is where I have to fall back on the cliched phrase that I know every non-believer hates, which is- There is a divine plan for us, we just dont know what it is. Many of her questions address God directly, such as why do this and not this.

The only reason she asks those questions is to counter the statements that god did this or that purposely, meaning if there was a purpose, it'd hardly be that and if you won't allow her to make that statement, then making any statement about any guiding hand to evolution is more than hypocritical.

Originally Posted by Lexie330ci

****, I dont have the answers to those, nor do I know how to get those answers for you. BUT, the same could be said for many scientific processes as well. Such as, why are we not made from silicon rather than oxygen, or since the universe is "so old," why didnt we all develop into cyanobacteria since they are the most biologically advanced creatures? And the answer is, I dont know.

That's more of a 'Why do these laws of physics exist instead of some other laws of physics?' type question. Very open-ended and theoretical. Evolution however is explained perfectly well by the existing evidence and shows no evidence of interference or guidance from the outside.

Originally Posted by Lexie330ci

You can make the argument that scientists will eventually find out why this happened and not that (theories, not sound facts), but as time progresses and the level of disorder increases in our system, we will just have more and more questions. Thats life. But saying there is no presence of divine intervention in science

I can't speak for all of science, but in evolution there is no evidence of such an intervention or a gap to hypothesize about one.

Originally Posted by Lexie330ci

is pretty much saying we know everything, which we dont. Good article still. It is actually much longer on her blog.

Yes. I felt this was more relevant and wouldn't prompt a Colin Powell as easily.

Originally Posted by Lexie330ci

This is a really cool video, but it seems like it has more to do with predicting the future, rather than the existence of God. I didnt come to the realization that there is a god because my friends had similar dreams, or because we have the same first names, but rather more emotional, inspirational, and "spiritual" revelations. I am a scientist, I strive to make the world a better place through innovation, and it is my faith that gives my work/life meaning and propels me to continue what I do. I am not stuck in a circle.

Lexie are you a Young Earth Creationist?

My only objection to the above post is, why not better the earth and it's people just for the sole purpose of doing what you proposed to, "strive to make the world a better place through innovation"? Why must there be a devine purpose? I always bring up the proposal to friends who are religious, what's so incorrect about me living a good, healthy, positive life, not wishing, or inflicting harm or bad on anyone? Just because I don't report my good or repent/ask to be forgiven for my bad doings means I don't have a place in a happy existance? I get to go to hell because I don't have a "relationship" with "god"? Isn't that all traditional religion asks for? be good, do good, don't harm others (in VERY short/broad terms)? Dunno, I just can't get into the fact of "giving myself up to" or reporting/asking/looking for guidance from some devine, all seeing eye in the sky or else you're doomed. I think we get one shot, live it to the fullest and when you die, you're worm food, why MUST there be something else? Seems like fear of the unknown is what draws a lot of people in...

For the record, I'm right on point with Busa.

Originally Posted by hayabusa55

The only reason she asks those questions is to counter the statements that god did this or that purposely, meaning if there was a purpose, it'd hardly be that and if you won't allow her to make that statement, then making any statement about any guiding hand to evolution is more than hypocritical.

That's more of a 'Why do these laws of physics exist instead of some other laws of physics?' type question. Very open-ended and theoretical. Evolution however is explained perfectly well by the existing evidence and shows no evidence of interference or guidance from the outside.

I can't speak for all of science, but in evolution there is no evidence of such an intervention or a gap to hypothesize about one.


Yes. I felt this was more relevant and wouldn't prompt a Colin Powell as easily.

No, she can make any statement she wants, no problems here. Evolution is not explained perfectly, but neither is creationism. There are way too many gaps, and hopefully we will continue to fill those in. You will have to explain the collin powell thing to me please lol

.
"You're the weak..... and I'm the tyranny of evil men..... But I'm tryin Ringo...I'm tryin real hard to be the Sheppard."

Originally Posted by eee4666

Lexie are you a Young Earth Creationist?

My only objection to the above post is, why not better the earth and it's people just for the sole purpose of doing what you proposed to, "strive to make the world a better place through innovation"? Why must there be a devine purpose? I always bring up the proposal to friends who are religious, what's so incorrect about me living a good, healthy, positive life, not wishing, or inflicting harm or bad on anyone? Just because I don't report my good or repent/ask to be forgiven for my bad doings means I don't have a place in a happy existance? I get to go to hell because I don't have a "relationship" with "god"? Isn't that all traditional religion asks for? be good, do good, don't harm others (in VERY short/broad terms)? Dunno, I just can't get into the fact of "giving myself up to" or reporting/asking/looking for guidance from some devine, all seeing eye in the sky or else you're doomed. I think we get one shot, live it to the fullest and when you die, you're worm food, why MUST there be something else? Seems like fear of the unknown is what draws a lot of people in...
For the record, I'm right on point with Busa.

Hey man, if youre a good person and you do good things, there is a God that loves you for it (:eeep. We were given the gift of free will, which allows us to chose which direction we take. We can make the world a better place, or we can not (or we can do something in between). But as a christian, there is more to just loving your neighbor (loving your neighbor is why we make the world a better place right?), but also to love and praise God. You dont have to report good acts to God, he knows already. And no matter how much **** people talk about repenting, a true apology will not just come from saying sorry to God, but also from following it up with the ones you hurt. Repenting to God is made mostly for sins that affect your relationship with him, such as cursing him lol.

And as for going to hell, I dont think anyone has the right to tell you where you are going. We are not saved by our good deeds or our love for God, but rather because he is merciful. Youre absolutely right, being good, doing good is exactly what God calls us to do, and if I had the key to heaven I would give it to you friend, but no one really knows 100% of who is going where. Traditional religion calls upon a little more though, and its what I said earlier, giving glory and praise to God. Does this ensure youre going to heaven? Not even in the least bit. But it is something I believe every God-fearing person should do. When you die, youre body is definitely worm food, but I dont believe in a God so that I have a place to go when I die. I believe in a God because I see his "presence" in my everyday life, and I love him for the things I have. Hope this cleared up some stuff for you.