E46 BMW Social Directory E46 FAQ 3-Series Discussion Forums BMW Photo Gallery BMW 3-Series Technical Information E46 Fanatics - The Ultimate BMW Resource BMW Vendors General E46 Forum The Tire Rack's Tire Wheel Forum Forced Induction Forum The Off-Topic The E46 BMW Showroom For Sale, For Trade or Wanting to Buy

Welcome to the E46Fanatics forums. E46Fanatics is the premiere website for BMW 3 series owners around the world with interactive forums, a geographical enthusiast directory, photo galleries, and technical information for BMW enthusiasts.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

Go Back   E46Fanatics > E46 BMW > General E46 Forum

General E46 Forum
This is the place to get answers, opinions and everything you need related to your E46 (sedan, coupe, convertible and wagon) BMW!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rating: Thread Rating: 5 votes, 5.00 average. Display Modes
Old 08-10-2010, 03:10 AM   #1
basyo1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 31
My Ride: 323ci e46
Angry E46 subframe crack

Hey guys, I own a 1999 323ci and yes, I now join the many others with a subframe crack, mine is in the left on the rear.

I'm in the process of working out what is the best way to repair the crack. BMW have told me the best process is to cut out the section and to replace it, $6000-$8000. However, I have learnt that there is a 'repair kit' (not reinforcement kit) for the problem, which involves again cutting the affected section out of the subframe and replacing it, but with components from this kit.

Anyway, what I want to know is where do i purchase/find one of these kits? is this the best way to repair it? what is the best way to repair it? and any other information would be great.

Thanks
Sebastian
__________________
basyo1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Ads by Google

Guests, get your FREE E46Fanatics.com membership to remove this ad.
Old 08-10-2010, 03:22 AM   #2
MyE46I
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Orange County
Posts: 194
My Ride: 330I
they wont fix it under warranty? keep talking to the boss of bosses and get them to fix it for free lol
MyE46I is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2010, 03:53 AM   #3
basyo1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 31
My Ride: 323ci e46
yeah took it to BMW Australia today, remember its a 1999 build. They only like to cover it for up to 10 years. I'm pushing very hard
But if im left with it I need to know the best way to do it.
thanks
__________________
basyo1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2010, 04:03 AM   #4
Alex323Ci
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Huntington Beach -Surf City USA
Posts: 20,042
My Ride: M3 & 323Ci (sold)
BMW has a TIS bulletin out on this for years. They fixed them in europe with epoxy foam in the crevice and BMW Canada fixed them too before we here in the usa got BMW-NA to fix under a class action lawsuit.

But if you have to pay to get it fixed(rewelded) TMS(Turner Motorsport) has a kit they sell.
http://www.turnermotorsport.com/html..._ID=TDR4675412
__________________
OE CSL WHEELS - OE CSL BRAKES - OE AUTOFLD MIRRORS - CSL RACK - CSL TRUNK - CSL DIFFUSER - AA TUNE - AA PULLEYS - AS 40% SSK - BILSTEIN PSS9s
CF CSL LIP - NAV- BMWP CF STRUT BAR - BMW GROUP N MNTS - GRUPPE M CF INTAKE - SUPERSPRINT - UUC S/S LINES, RTABs - H&R SWAYS - 4.10 M-SPORT DIFF

Last edited by Alex323Ci; 08-10-2010 at 04:04 AM.
Alex323Ci is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2010, 04:09 AM   #5
basyo1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 31
My Ride: 323ci e46
Thanks Alex, yeah ive seen the TMS kit, is this a thorough solution though? Is it best to completely remove damaged part?

I might add that today, a knowledgable & decent guy (Clive Discipline), the Regional Technical Manager from BMW Aust inspected the car this morning and told me that:

"Yes, this is a classic example of the known E46 stress fracture problem..."
"BMW Aust would push for BMW AG (head office in Germany) to cover the repair but sorry - your car is more than 10 years old."
"If your car was less than 10 years old, we would be having a very different conversation..."

Clive was trying to deny liability on behalf of BMW Aust & BMW AG by suggesting it had been re-painted on the rear LHS quarter panel.... "what a load of crap - it could have been keyed!"
Then he suggested that the front springs were non-standard and that my M3 wheels are non-standard. I know quite a bit about cars and told the BMW guys they were talking nonsense in relation to the rear LHS stress fractures
You had the car inspected a few days ago by a trusted Auto Engineer who said the car definitely had not been in any major accidents

Also, i taped the conversation, which clearly admitted liability !! They cannot deny what they said.
I'm speaking to my mate now to consider how they will take further action ...

BMW is responsible!
__________________
basyo1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2010, 08:09 PM   #6
boaka69
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Buena Vista, Virginia
Posts: 1
My Ride: 2001 BMW 330ci
I have a 2001 330ci

Is my car still covered under this lawsuit? I have a 2001 330ci and its making a crazy noise everytime i hit the slightest bump. I am going to take it to get it checked to see if it is subframe related. I assume it is but i am not sure
boaka69 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2010, 08:36 PM   #7
dmax
Registered User
 
dmax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: NJ
Posts: 23,679
My Ride: '99 328i 300K miles
First, as far as the 'what they like' and 'what they do'

My 3/99' 328i was repaired and documented here in September, I think, of this year...so...the 10 year stuff...not with me.

Second, where have you guys been on fanatics? If you haven't noticed, if you search 'subframe' in posts or titles, bet there are 10,000 posts easily? But, again, if circumstances were such that you just couldn't find the time to get under the car and inspect yourself...I'm sorry...I know stuff can happen.

This kit is one thing...but Megal in another thread is thinking about the foam, and I think that'd be great for some repairs...but might yet be used in conjunction, I'd think, with patching.

I know nothing of the kit otherwise.
__________________
Upcoming comedy shows: Comic Strip Live, May 12, 6 p.m. & Greenwich Village Comedy Club May 20, 6 p.m. See Facebook for other shows and PM me if you can make one.


A recent set: https://youtu.be/995gLmVEVZk

dmax on Facebook

Mangofy your E46!
dmax is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2012, 02:21 PM   #8
whiteliontunch
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 1
My Ride: 3.23ci
E46 Subframe Crack Pathetic !

I was one of the BMW E46 enthusiast but not anymore.After fixing( not covered by the manufacturer )several common failures on my 2000 model 3.23ci .I was devastated and eventually gave up with the sub -frame crack which cost me a lot of money and stress.
I drove 30 years old VW and that silly car maybe better manufactured
The dealership of course doesn't include it to the recall and call for 8000 $ replacement.The value of that car currently 6000$.And if I had done all my common failures for that car at the dealership ,It would have cost 20.000$ in total.
One word, Pathetic!.

Ps. My car was not modified, driven moderately,well cared and maintained.
whiteliontunch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2012, 05:12 PM   #9
klax
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Arizona
Posts: 692
My Ride: '04 325i
whitelion,

The 30 year old VW you owned was a better manufactered car. If you wanted a modern VW or BMW that was built the same way but with all the performance and features we expect these days, that car would cost a small fortune. My 28 year old 911 is built like a tank (very little plastic) and incredibly reliable, it's a shame those days are gone...
klax is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2015, 07:32 PM   #10
lllRazorlll
Modded ///Member
 
lllRazorlll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 2,359
My Ride: '00 328i
Is the subframe reinforcement something that should be done as preventative maintenance?
__________________


>IN SEARCH OF GRAY SEDAN SPORT SEATS<
lllRazorlll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2015, 07:43 PM   #11
Alex323Ci
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Huntington Beach -Surf City USA
Posts: 20,042
My Ride: M3 & 323Ci (sold)
Quote:
Originally Posted by lllRazorlll View Post
Is the subframe reinforcement something that should be done as preventative maintenance?
i think the foam/epoxy would be more "preventative maintenance". the subframe reinforcement plates lean more towards being a fix for cracks.

on a 328i that hasn't been fixed before and you plan to keep. i would say yes do one of these as preventive maintenance.
__________________
OE CSL WHEELS - OE CSL BRAKES - OE AUTOFLD MIRRORS - CSL RACK - CSL TRUNK - CSL DIFFUSER - AA TUNE - AA PULLEYS - AS 40% SSK - BILSTEIN PSS9s
CF CSL LIP - NAV- BMWP CF STRUT BAR - BMW GROUP N MNTS - GRUPPE M CF INTAKE - SUPERSPRINT - UUC S/S LINES, RTABs - H&R SWAYS - 4.10 M-SPORT DIFF
Alex323Ci is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2015, 08:11 PM   #12
dmax
Registered User
 
dmax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: NJ
Posts: 23,679
My Ride: '99 328i 300K miles
I'd definitely do one or the other...easiest is the foam...and you'll find detailed directions on doing that and I know you can get the foams needed. Might be best to have a dealer do it, but if you're good at following directions, it's a straightforward thing to do.

If you're not cracked now, though...I think just the foam is what I would do...and leave the reinforcement plates for when you need them...but that's me.

Also, you know, if you don't see cracks around the bushing, that doesn't mean it's not cracked. You need to drop the rear axle carrier to see above them.

D
__________________
Upcoming comedy shows: Comic Strip Live, May 12, 6 p.m. & Greenwich Village Comedy Club May 20, 6 p.m. See Facebook for other shows and PM me if you can make one.


A recent set: https://youtu.be/995gLmVEVZk

dmax on Facebook

Mangofy your E46!
dmax is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2015, 11:35 AM   #13
lllRazorlll
Modded ///Member
 
lllRazorlll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 2,359
My Ride: '00 328i
Last time I checked it appeared fine at all four points. No cracks, granted I haven't dropped rear suspension. Just wonder how much time the foam/epoxy buys. I saw this thread on Bimmerforums here http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...ubframe-Repair and wanted to see what you guys thought regarding the issue
__________________


>IN SEARCH OF GRAY SEDAN SPORT SEATS<
lllRazorlll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2015, 09:20 PM   #14
Geo31
Ironman
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Willis, TX, USA
Posts: 3,167
My Ride: 98 M-Z3, 01 325iT
I'm having a difficult time seeing how structural foam could prevent the tear-out. The problem lay in how it tears out. I don't see how structural foam could prevent it. It just rips out as opposed to a bending/tearing action. I've had my 328i repaired ($3k US) and BMW only covered about half of the cost. Buggers.

Do y'all have a link to info on the foam solution? I'm considering another E46 and would like to read up on this.
__________________
George Roffe

Swim: 2.4 Miles
Bike: 112 Miles
Run: 26.2 Miles
Brag: For the rest of your life


Geo31 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2015, 12:09 PM   #15
Tyler H
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Knoxville TN
Posts: 30
My Ride: 330i
If you squirt that area full of foam and it doesn't work, it will be practically impossible to clean it up enough to weld on it later on. Expanding foam is highly flammable and a total mess.
Tyler H is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2015, 01:20 PM   #16
lllRazorlll
Modded ///Member
 
lllRazorlll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 2,359
My Ride: '00 328i
I'm just gonna wait until it starts happening before I drop the whole suspension and weld it
__________________


>IN SEARCH OF GRAY SEDAN SPORT SEATS<
lllRazorlll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2015, 04:31 AM   #17
Alex323Ci
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Huntington Beach -Surf City USA
Posts: 20,042
My Ride: M3 & 323Ci (sold)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geo31 View Post
I'm having a difficult time seeing how structural foam could prevent the tear-out. The problem lay in how it tears out. I don't see how structural foam could prevent it. It just rips out as opposed to a bending/tearing action. I've had my 328i repaired ($3k US) and BMW only covered about half of the cost. Buggers.
the crevice where the subframe mounting block sits in is hollow. the torque of the driveshaft rocks the subframe side to side, thus weakening mounts in their hollow crevice. the expanding epoxy foam fills the crevice and keeps the metal sheets from flexing as much.
__________________
OE CSL WHEELS - OE CSL BRAKES - OE AUTOFLD MIRRORS - CSL RACK - CSL TRUNK - CSL DIFFUSER - AA TUNE - AA PULLEYS - AS 40% SSK - BILSTEIN PSS9s
CF CSL LIP - NAV- BMWP CF STRUT BAR - BMW GROUP N MNTS - GRUPPE M CF INTAKE - SUPERSPRINT - UUC S/S LINES, RTABs - H&R SWAYS - 4.10 M-SPORT DIFF
Alex323Ci is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2015, 06:54 AM   #18
Geo31
Ironman
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Willis, TX, USA
Posts: 3,167
My Ride: 98 M-Z3, 01 325iT
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex323Ci View Post
the crevice where the subframe mounting block sits in is hollow. the torque of the driveshaft rocks the subframe side to side, thus weakening mounts in their hollow crevice. the expanding epoxy foam fills the crevice and keeps the metal sheets from flexing as much.
Ugh... Count me extremely doubtful on this.
__________________
George Roffe

Swim: 2.4 Miles
Bike: 112 Miles
Run: 26.2 Miles
Brag: For the rest of your life


Geo31 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2015, 12:57 PM   #19
Monty330ci
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 56
My Ride: 2002 330ci, MT
What about using a condom an internal expansion chamber to prevent the foam from being so messy... I don't know if rubbers will stand up to the foam, but, you get the idea (bladder)...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Monty330ci is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2015, 03:03 PM   #20
Megalocnus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 2,983
My Ride: 05 330i ZHP/MT
^The foam isn't messy at all. It comes in a dual component component cartridge and you just inject it into the cavity above the mounting element.
It doesn't expand noticeably while curing, so don't try that.
The foam also sticks to metal very well, but not to silicone or rubber...
Megalocnus is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
323ci, bmw australia, crack, subframe, suspension

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Censor is ON





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:50 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
(c) 1999 - 2016 performanceIX Inc - privacy policy - terms of use