Joe Legal v. Jose Illegal

Originally Posted by 2000_328CI

Dude, he threw TRILLIONS of taxpayer dollars and got the country to support it by claiming unemployment would otherwise hit double digits. He put his plan through, unemployment skyrocketed, and now the dems want to push for a second stimulus?

10 months, dude. 10 months. Chill.

Anyways, back on topic!

Originally Posted by xxcosmicxx

As stated, this is not info I put together, simply an email I wanted to share.




Aren't you like 19?

Negative. Prob the same age you are. But more openminded and educated apparently.

It's not a perfect system, bit simply blaming illegals is not the answer. Nor is the solution to deport them all.

Chase,

As a Republican I tend to agree with you quite often, however you are completely off base here.

Your closet racism is also showing... "No way Jose." ?

And where did I once mention my sympathy towards HISPANIC immigrants in particular? I just said don't confuse all Immigrants with Hispanics, and all Hispanics with Mexicans... and went on to say that I myself am Hispanic. You're stepping on a real thin line with me man, I'm proud of my heritage but don't come at me claiming I'm saying Hispanics deserve more than anyone else.



And work force has nothing to do with supply and demand, man. Economics 101 should have taught YOU that.

The jobs illegal immigrants take are minimum wage jobs because they require little to no education... look at your legal waiters and waitresses, dishwashers... these are low paying jobs because they are just that - low paying jobs that require more physical labor than actual intelligence.

Even if we kicked out all the illegal immigrants, and all the unemployed were reaped of their unemployment benefits and forced to work as landscapers, dishwashers, delivery men, ect... they would still be paid minimum wage... so wtf are you talking about?


Are you telling me that if we kick out the illegal immigrants that are willing to work for $7.50 and no American citizen wants to work... McDonalds is going to up their wages to $15.00 an hour? Do you know what that would do to inflation? And you're sitting there talking to ME about Economics 101? Try again.

^

Originally Posted by DME46

Chase,

As a Republican I tend to agree with you quite often,

Good move

Originally Posted by DME46

however you are completely off base here.

Difference of opinions

Originally Posted by DME46

Your closet racism is also showing... "No way Jose." ?

You're leaving out the "pun intended"... no way jose is a common expression, one which derives NO backing from hispanics...

http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/no-way-jose.html

Originally Posted by DME46

I'm proud of my heritage but don't come at me claiming I'm saying Hispanics deserve more than anyone else.

Absolutely. You are fully entitled to it. I am pointing at those who illegally came into the country at the expense of those who have been patiently waiting their turn and paying to do so.

Originally Posted by DME46

And work force has nothing to do with supply and demand, man. Economics 101 should have taught YOU that.

Supply dictates that a minimum job should pay 10 dollars. Company offers to pay 7.50. Nobody takes the job and company has to reconsider their wages... very simple man

Originally Posted by DME46

The jobs illegal immigrants take are minimum wage jobs because they require little to no education...

True.. but they would be possessed by younger, less educated AMERICANS if parents and society didn't teach children that certain jobs are "below them"... goes back to parenting proper values and work ethic.
look at your legal waiters and waitresses, dishwashers... these

Originally Posted by DME46

Even if we kicked out all the illegal immigrants, and all the unemployed were reaped of their unemployment benefits and forced to work as landscapers, dishwashers, delivery men, ect... they would still be paid minimum wage... so wtf are you talking about?

Right, but, if the wage was too low for someone to accept, it would go up

Originally Posted by DME46

Are you telling me that if we kick out the illegal immigrants that are willing to work for $7.50 and no American citizen wants to work... McDonalds is going to up their wages to $15.00 an hour?

Absolutely. IF society dictates that a certain wage is too low, a company will be forced to leave the spot open or raise the wage. Would mcdonalds rather pay 15 an employee per hour or have the store shut down till they found someone who would take the job at a lower wage (knowing very well nobody will).

Originally Posted by DME46

Do you know what that would do to inflation? And you're sitting there talking to ME about Economics 101? Try again.

Inflation is all relative man. If minimum wage goes up, median wage goes up, higher paying jobs go up, etc...Sure the merchants raise their prices but if our wages go up, it's a net equal... this is nothing new.

I see where you're trying to take this but, from a logistics standpoint, it makes sense to kick everyone out. Sure it's not compassionate but as my collegiate professor commented, you don't see a red cross on my door

Chase how old are you and what do you do for work?

I'm not going to get political or argue or use it against you, I'm just curious.

Originally Posted by 2000_328CI

I see where you're trying to take this but, from a logistics standpoint, it makes sense to kick everyone out. Sure it's not compassionate but as my collegiate professor commented, you don't see a red cross on my door

Originally Posted by xxcosmicxx

For you a55holes that want to take more of my money...
... Came from an email this morning, but felt like sharing with the e46 community...



Here is an example of why hiring illegal aliens is not economically productive for the United States .. Try to follow along.
>
> You have two families: "Joe Legal" and "Jose Illegal". Both families have two
> parents, two children, and live in California ..
>
> Joe
> Legal works in construction, has a Social
> Security Number and makes $25.00 per hour with taxes
> deducted.
>
> Jose
> Illegal also works in construction, has NO
> Social Security Number, and gets paid $15.00 cash "
> under the table".
>
> Ready? Now pay attention.
>
> Joe
> Legal:
> $25..00 per hour x 40 hours = $1000.00 per week, or
> $52,000.00 per year. Now take 30% away for state and federal
> tax; Joe Legal now has $31,231.00.
>
> Jose
> Illegal:
> $15.00 per hour x 40 hours = $600..00 per week, or
> $31,200.00 per year. Jose
> illegal pays no taxes. Jose Illegal now has $31,200.00.
>
> Joe
> Legal pays medical and dental insurance
> with limited coverage for his family at $600.00 per month,
> or $7,200.00 per year. Joe Legal now has $24,031.00.
>
> Jose
> Illegal has
> full medical and dental coverage through the state and
> local clinics at a cost of $0.00 per
> year.Jose
> Illegal still has $31,200.00.
>
> Joe
> Legal makes too much money and is not
> eligible for food stamps or welfare. Joe
> Legal pays $500.00 per month for food, or
> $6,000.00 per year. Joe Legal now has $18,031.00.
>
> Jose
> Illegal has no documented income and is
> eligible for food stamps and welfare. Jose Illegal still has $31,200.00.
>
> Joe
> Legal pays rent of $1,200.00 per month, o
> r $14,400.00
> per year.. Joe Legal now has $9,631.00.
>
> Jose
> Illegal receives a $500.00 per month federal
> rent subsidy. Jose Illegal pays $500.00 per month, or $6,000.00
> per year. Jose Illegal still has $25,200.00.
>
> Joe
> Legal pays $200.00
> per month, or $2,400.00 for insurance. Joe Legal now has $7,231.00.
>
> Jose
> Illegal says, "We don't need no
> stinkin' insurance!" and still has
> $25,200.00.
>
> Joe
> Legal has to make his $7,231.00 stretch to
> pay utilities, gasoline, etc.
>
> Jose
> Illegal has to make his $25,200.00 stretch
> to pay utilities, gasoline, and what he sends out of the
> country every month.
>
> Joe Legal now works overtime on Saturdays or
> gets a part time job after work.
>
> Jose
> Illegal has nights and weekends off to enjoy
> with his family.
>
> Joe
> Legal's and Jose
> Illegal's children both attend the same
> school. Joe Legal pays for his children's lunches
> while Jose
> Illegal's children get a government sponsored
> lunch. Jose
> Illegal's children have an after school ESL
> program.. Joe Legal's children go home.
>
> Joe Legal and Jose Illegal both enjoy the same police and fire
> services, but Joe paid for them and Jose did not pay.
>
> Do you get it, now?
>
> If you vote for or support any politician that
> supports illegal
> aliens...
>
> You are part of the problem!
>
> It's way P A S T time to take a stand for America
> and Americans!

that doesnt take into account the fact that Jose Illegal has 4 jobs to support not ONLY his family in this country but BOTH of the husband and wife's families in their home country...Illegals work their butts off for the most part, Plus they do jobs ameircans snub their noses at so why does it matter?

Chase,

I like the way you think... but employers are just as much to blame as the illegal immigrants who are willing to work for minimum or less than minimum wage.

And to be honest I don't think its the minimum wage that bothers people so much as opposed to lack of benefits, working conditions, ect.

Lets face it... 95% of people on welfare are on it for the long run. If our country has to depend on immigrants to do the work others are not willing to do, I'm fine with it. The lower class (uneducated) that WOULD fill these lower class jobs are only hurting themselves. And people complain about the poor staying poor and the rich getting richer. Its American work ethic that fvcking boggles my mind.

Originally Posted by UberBimmer

that doesnt take into account the fact that Jose Illegal has 4 jobs to support not ONLY his family in this country but BOTH of the husband and wife's families in their home country...Illegals work their butts off for the most part, Plus they do jobs ameircans snub their noses at so why does it matter?

You just made a point against your argument. Much of this money that they make is shipped back to Mexico to their families back home. American jobs stimulating the Mexican economy... sounds like a winning plan to me.

Dey trrrk urrrr deeeerrrr

Originally Posted by DME46

Chase,

I like the way you think... but employers are just as much to blame as the illegal immigrants who are willing to work for minimum or less than minimum wage.

And to be honest I don't think its the minimum wage that bothers people so much as opposed to lack of benefits, working conditions, ect.

Lets face it... 95% of people on welfare are on it for the long run. If our country has to depend on immigrants to do the work others are not willing to do, I'm fine with it. The lower class (uneducated) that WOULD fill these lower class jobs are only hurting themselves. And people complain about the poor staying poor and the rich getting richer. Its American work ethic that fvcking boggles my mind.

I like this. We are on different sides of this fence (or should I say border ) and yet we are having a civil discussion. This is rockstar

The only catch with your train of thought is that the lower class being lazy and choosing to stay on unemployment as it's better than working and walking away with a similar sized paycheck (which mannnny do), is that it not only negatively impacts them. It also hurts those in the upper-middle and upper class. They have worked hard to get where they are, have put their money in sound investments rather than on toys and gadgets, and yet, they are the ones paying those unemployment checks. Sure they come from the government, but keep in mind where Obama gets that money.

And a quick note, I am not against anyone based on their color, creed, etc. I am not choosing one over another for anything ABOUT THEM but rather about the decisions they chose to make. Someone coming into this country illegally and hurting the life (in whatever way) of a hardworking American citizens is wrong (that is simple). But, keep in mind, I am equally critical of those who are legal citizens and are draining our society. Those individuals who have chosen to not look for a job as they are happy with unemployment checks can walk their asses out of the country with the illegals for all i care. But, if we did rid the country of illegals at large, opened up all these new jobs, and said to those on unemployment, look i have a job for you and you can either chose this or you can stay at home without a welfare check, I guarantee they will take the job. I respect the work ethic of illegals (i truly do) BUT, i think the problem here is that they are filling a gap created in our workforce due to laziness and snobbery. Fix that attitude, remove the illegals, and our unemployment goes down as does our monthly expenditure on unemployment checks. That's a win for everyone.

And, american's work ethic is derived from a couple places. It shouldn't boggle your mind bud. Just look on MTV, visit an inner city public school, or watch reality tv. We, as a society, idolize those with money while simultaneously worshipping an incredibly superficial, materialistic culture of failure. Teens consider it cool to view education as an evil, a Mercedes or big chain as an indication of success, and don't really care how you get there... and we wonder why inner city kids inspire to be pro basketball players or scarface rather than an astronaut or a CEO. We need to figure out a way to reverse this culture of failure amongst youth and start embracing the work-hard mentality and we can do it attitude that built this country into what it is today.

At the end of the day, my views might seem critical or mean but I am a pragmatist. I remove emotion from the decision and say "what would be best for our country at large". And, mean, fair, or however you would label it, that does NOT include improving the lives of everyone else on this planet at the expenditure of our own citizens.

Originally Posted by Back2Basics

You post something as retarded as this e-mail, expect retarded replies

No no no no.

Post something "retarded" as this e-mail, and expect retards (you) to reply.

FWIW....

....Before switching government careers, I was employed with the County of San Bernardino (..along with neo 328ci...R.I.P.). I worked for the Tax Assessor Dick Larsen, and was privy to all sorts of county-wide financial information. For those of you who believe that illegals do not receive benefits, you are wrong. For those of you who argue that illegals aren't as big of a drain as society makes it seem, you are wrong! The amount of money that my county writes-off at the end of the year - just for unpaid medical bills associated with illegal alien hospital costs - is ENORMOUS. I'm surprised that Arrowhead Regional Medical Center is still operational (..thank God for the abundance of working Americans that we sue, levy bank accounts, lien/possess assets, etc. on an annual basis to help shave some of the red....{sarcasm interlaced with truth}). I could get into specifics, but I'd rather not (...I've done it in the past; do a search if you want more information). My point is that illegals receive much more than what is alluded to in this thread.

[/soapbox]

Originally Posted by mistrzmiasta

i know illegals that own houses , have credit cards , get government benefits , have driver's licenses , pretty much everything that US citizens have....whats the point in calling them illegals...they have more rights than citizens have

Good point!


I won't even expound on a peace officers' diminished rights of enforcement. Bullsh1t!

Originally Posted by Clean_3

so dumb how everybody thinks

illegal= mexican/hispanic
oh wait i know why ... because they are the only ones willing to work their ass off with whatever job comes their way and theyre taking peoples jobs ppfftt..

there's plenty of other illegal races .... and why doesnt Joe ask to be paid under the table so he can do the same as "Jose" if its such a problem and so unfair?

An illegal resident is an illegal resident as far as I'm concerned. The country of origin is irrelevant. The primary reason why Mexican's are usually under the microscope is due to the relatively easy ingress into our country. The Chinese, Brazilians, etc. can't easily enter our country in the same fashion that Mexicans can.

Originally Posted by DME46

And I don't want to hear "immigrants are taking our jobs." Immigration is what started this fvcking country, and the reason we became the greatest and most culturally and racially diversified nation on the planet. And I know half of you lazy fvcks wouldn't dare mow a lawn or serve burgers for minimum wage, so unless you are willing to step up and do some actual labor, shut the fvck up.

Calm down bro! The large majority of the forum aren't willing to mow a lawn aside from our own, or serve burgers at minimum wage because we are qualified to perform other technical duties. Conversely, I feel that it is safe to assume that if any of us were unemployed for a significant amount of time beyond unemployment benefits, and were unable to find a specifically classified position, I'd wager that the option to flip a burger for a paycheck would prevail over pride (..and ultimately starvation).

who else is gonna cut my grass and make my bed in the morning shieeeeeeeet


That was a lame example though. Jose Illegal most likely lives paycheck to paycheck putting money back into our economy (while sending the rest back to the mothership).

Originally Posted by fordpwns

who else is gonna cut my grass and make my bed in the morning shieeeeeeeet


That was a lame example though. Jose Illegal most likely lives paycheck to paycheck putting money back into our economy (while sending the rest back to the mothership).

Most Americans live paycheck to paycheck as well, so that is a moot argument on their behalf. They re-invest a minimal amount of their earnings back into our economy, and send the rest to Mexico.

Let's not allow ourselves to be shrouded in emotion or supposition, and discuss only the facts. Illegal residents know what they can and can't get away with. They know how to work our system better than the most masterfully minded trailer park citizen.

If an uneducated dude who barely speaks English can "take" your job, perhaps illegal immigration isn't our biggest problem

Originally Posted by ghorn

If an uneducated dude who barely speaks English can "take" your job, perhaps illegal immigration isn't our biggest problem

You're right! Greedy, sneaky, corrupted business owners are the problem.


Allow me to also state that I am pro-legal immigration. I have no problem with people aspiring to move here and build a life in a country that offers more opportunity than their country of origin.

Originally Posted by m3inline6

you're right! Greedy, sneaky, corrupted business owners are the problem.

exactly!!