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General E46 Forum
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Old 12-17-2009, 01:40 PM   #21
jaystay
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Originally Posted by sick.boy1986 View Post
when you put too much oil in an engine, the crankshaft counter-weights aerate the oil while it's in the pan, creating bubbles. They're picked up by the oil pump and when these bubbles get into the bearings they wreck an engine just as badly as when you are SEVERELY lacking oil. It doesn't create more blow-by. And by the way, oil makes black/bluish smoke, anti-freeze makes white smoke.
I'm not getting constant smoke out of my vehicle. There is only white smoke on a cold start and it goes away in a couple of minutes. The smoke has a fuel smell to it, not sweet. Once it's warm, the smoke goes away.
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Old 12-17-2009, 01:49 PM   #22
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you could probably get away with cleaning them up, but if there is any damage due to burning oil, toss them ...
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Old 12-17-2009, 03:01 PM   #23
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Does the fuel smell go away with the smoke? My E36(with M52) smells like fuel real bad when it's first warming up during the winter, and of course the white smoke. It all goes away once it's warmed up, no big deal. If it doesn't go away, it's probably because of your fouled plugs not burning enough of the a/f mixture. And you've already discussed the source of that, I hope you get out of this one cheap
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Old 12-17-2009, 03:03 PM   #24
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A bit of white steam after a cold start is normal for any internal combustion engine. It's just water, which is a byproduct of gasoline combustion.

Additionally, to the average user it can be difficult to differentiate between coolant smoke and synthetic oil smoke. Either way, I wouldn't worry about it until getting the CCV fixed.
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Old 12-17-2009, 04:00 PM   #25
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I just called a reliable indy in Orange County that I've used a couple times before and told him my issues. He said he's put in an SULEV engine before and from what he recalled it has no CCV so it's probably going to be something else. I asked if the valve cover gasket leaking could have caused my fouled up plugs and he said only if the oil poured into the socket well, so the entire spark plug should be oily, not just the part that sparks. Of course mine are only soaked on the part that sparks and the tops are dry. He told me he'd be glad to take a look at it next week.

I'm thinking I might just take it in since all we can do is guess what's wrong and not pinpoint much. I have $2k to spend, but I'm afraid this will be a $3k+ job if its engine related which might not even be worth it since that's how much I owe on the car. Especially since I just read that these M56 engines have tons of expensive problems. Grrr
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Old 12-17-2009, 08:59 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by jaystay View Post
I just called a reliable indy in Orange County that I've used a couple times before and told him my issues. He said he's put in an SULEV engine before and from what he recalled it has no CCV so it's probably going to be something else. I asked if the valve cover gasket leaking could have caused my fouled up plugs and he said only if the oil poured into the socket well, so the entire spark plug should be oily, not just the part that sparks. Of course mine are only soaked on the part that sparks and the tops are dry. He told me he'd be glad to take a look at it next week.

I'm thinking I might just take it in since all we can do is guess what's wrong and not pinpoint much. I have $2k to spend, but I'm afraid this will be a $3k+ job if its engine related which might not even be worth it since that's how much I owe on the car. Especially since I just read that these M56 engines have tons of expensive problems. Grrr
people here tell you alot of things without reading that you have an M56.

the CCV is integrated into the valve cover, i was shown one at the stealer today

You will not have a oilline to your dipstick , since the valve cover will only let vapours escape , and those are directed to the intake runners directly.

Which explains why you have oil in your cylinders.

How a leaking VCG could affect this i dont understand , since the oil would then escape onto the engine block , or into the sparkplug area.
And what are the chance of all 6 "gaskets" failing at once.

And even if they did , the oil would be ontop of the plugs , not near the electrode.

Easiest way to check this is simply to unclip cable from CCV and look for oil, if you have liquid oil in there , chances are even higher that your CCV is shot.

EDIT : Im 99% certain it's your CCV , since nothing other than all of your piston rings/valve guides and ccv could cause this..
The hose you should look at is #10
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...05&hg=11&fg=40

Save yourself some cash and check for oil there , if you've got any , get a cover and be done with it

Last edited by SweTurbo; 12-17-2009 at 09:03 PM.
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Old 12-22-2009, 12:00 PM   #27
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people here tell you alot of things without reading that you have an M56.

the CCV is integrated into the valve cover, i was shown one at the stealer today

You will not have a oilline to your dipstick , since the valve cover will only let vapours escape , and those are directed to the intake runners directly.

Which explains why you have oil in your cylinders.

How a leaking VCG could affect this i dont understand , since the oil would then escape onto the engine block , or into the sparkplug area.
And what are the chance of all 6 "gaskets" failing at once.

And even if they did , the oil would be ontop of the plugs , not near the electrode.

Easiest way to check this is simply to unclip cable from CCV and look for oil, if you have liquid oil in there , chances are even higher that your CCV is shot.

EDIT : Im 99% certain it's your CCV , since nothing other than all of your piston rings/valve guides and ccv could cause this..
The hose you should look at is #10
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...05&hg=11&fg=40

Save yourself some cash and check for oil there , if you've got any , get a cover and be done with it
Sorry, been too busy with xmas stuff and hadnt checked back on my thread. I found hose #10, it's right on top of the intake cover and easy to get to. I just want to clarify what you suggest I check first... I should unclip that #10 hose and check for liquid oil residue inside of it? Doesn't oil flow through that hose normally? I haven't unclipped it yet since I'm at work right now, but I know from previously inspecting it that there's no sign of oil leakage near the connecting points nor is the hose ripped, but I'll check the inside of the hose once I get a chance if that's what you suggest. Thanks for the help so far Pir4t.

Last edited by jaystay; 12-22-2009 at 12:06 PM.
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Old 12-22-2009, 09:32 PM   #28
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Ok Pir4t, I think you're on to something. I just got home and pulled out hose #10 and sure enough it had oil all up inside of it. I took pics to show all the mess I found.

Vent Hose (oil leaking from it):


Diagram showing my engine layout and where the vent hose connects I also noticed a bunch of oil near the filler cap so does my cap need replacement as well?


Hose connection to the Valve Cover (notice the big puddle of oil sitting there):


Hose connection to the intake manifold (again a puddle of dirty oil in there):


I also noticed fresh pools of oil in these two spots pointed by the red arrows which are located by the back two spark plug wells. How the heck did oil end up there? Could it from a leaky valve cover gasket?


So what do you guys think? Looks to me like the CCV/Valve cover combo is broken right? So replace valve cover, vc gasket, vent hose #10, six plugs and oil/filter change is what needs to be done? I can def DIY this, but I cant DIY a head gasket!

Thanks!

Last edited by jaystay; 12-23-2009 at 11:56 AM.
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Old 12-23-2009, 04:52 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by jaystay View Post
So what do you guys think? Looks to me like the CCV/Valve cover combo is broken right? So replace valve cover, vc gasket, vent hose #10, six plugs and oil/filter change is what needs to be done? I can def DIY this, but I cant DIY a head gasket!

Thanks!
With that amount of oil in the hose connections (it's ok if it's just a bit oily , but a puddle.....) i'm 100% that your CCV is broken.

The oil around aprkplug area is due to your VCG, i dont know about your oil-cap though.
It could be caused by the VCG , since you shouldnt get any oil there(much less pressure to oush it out)

Headgasket you need to check the oil for foam (sign of water in oil) or take a compression test , though im almost 100% sure you HG is fine.

Thanks for the pictures
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Old 12-23-2009, 05:14 PM   #30
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Sweet, thanks for all the help! My oil isn't milky in the dipstick or radiator, but I guess we shall see how the oil looks once the valve cover is off (*knocks on wood*).

I found a reputable dismantler of newer BMW's in southern california called Harout and gave them a call and found an M56 valve cover for $150+20 for shipping so I just ordered it. That saves me $430! I also ordered the gaskets and rubber grommets from Tischer, so I plan to do tackle this over the New Year's holiday. So i need to vacuum oil out from the spark socket wells or anything like that? Or can I use a shop towel?

I will keep you guys posted.
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Old 12-26-2009, 12:06 AM   #31
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Sweet, thanks for all the help! My oil isn't milky in the dipstick or radiator, but I guess we shall see how the oil looks once the valve cover is off (*knocks on wood*).

I found a reputable dismantler of newer BMW's in southern california called Harout and gave them a call and found an M56 valve cover for $150+20 for shipping so I just ordered it. That saves me $430! I also ordered the gaskets and rubber grommets from Tischer, so I plan to do tackle this over the New Year's holiday. So i need to vacuum oil out from the spark socket wells or anything like that? Or can I use a shop towel?

I will keep you guys posted.
Just get the towel in there
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Old 12-30-2009, 11:16 AM   #32
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any update?
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Old 01-08-2010, 03:02 PM   #33
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Yep, here's my update. I haven't taken it to an indy yet, but it turns out I'm a real idiot.

I replaced the valve cover/ccv combo, the VGG, new spark plugs, an oil/filter change, and cleaned my engine thoroughly.

Well, once everything was back in place, I excitedly turned my car on and it idled normal. Then I took it for a spin and sure enough, same problem. I had no power once again and was lucky to get up to 10 mph. I drove around the block and came back to sadly park in the garage. First thing I do is check my plugs and sure enough, all six of them are black again.

Here's the part where I realize I'm an idiot... it's not even oil that's on the spark plugs, they're carbon fouled! ugh. I think twice and remember where I've seen that powder before. The chrome part of my exhaust pipe is also covered in the same black fuel smelling dust that's on my plugs. I'm guessing this means my valves/head gasket are alright, right?

Let me know if you guys have any other ideas. I'm gathering that it's probably a fuel/oxygen related problem? Oh well, the VCG had to be done anyway, but I'm bummed a killed yet another brand new set of plugs, I should have used generic ones for the test drive.

Here's a pic of one of my plugs:



Here's pics of my valves and my old cover (oil wasn't milky)




At least my engine looks clean now :/


Last edited by jaystay; 01-08-2010 at 03:54 PM.
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Old 01-08-2010, 03:58 PM   #34
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are you getting any trouble codes popping up? can you do a compression test? have you actually changed the oil in it? Airfilter/MAF sensor clean? those plugs look like a rich condition problem... all of which should have been caught by the ECM...

when it loses power how does it act when you give it throttle?
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Old 01-08-2010, 04:08 PM   #35
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are you getting any trouble codes popping up?
I definitely have error codes, had about 7 when I took it in about 6 months ago (o2 sensor codes, fuel codes, misfires are the ones I remember). I was trying to pinpoint the major problem (loss of power) myself to save some money at the shop. I'm sure the valve cover will save me a bit.

Quote:
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have you actually changed the oil in it?
Yes, after the test drive I did an oil change since I already had all the stuff there, again to save me some more cash from the shop.

Quote:
Originally Posted by matterhorn View Post
Airfilter/MAF sensor clean?
I got a new air filter put in two months ago, but done nothing to the MAF sensor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by matterhorn View Post
when it loses power how does it act when you give it throttle?
I held down the throttle and it would max out about 10 and rpm's would rise. Also, at times it did a weird jerking motion like I was pumping between my throttle and then brake to make a passenger dizzy, vomit or something. Actually my friend even asked if I was doing that on purpose, but all I was doing was pressing down on the gas.

Last edited by jaystay; 01-08-2010 at 04:10 PM.
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Old 01-08-2010, 04:17 PM   #36
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first off... you need to figure out if it is pre cat or post cat o2 sensors... if they are precat then they need to be replaced. They are probably fouled just like your plugs...

secondly you need to figure out the ignition problems... to do this though, you are going to need a BMW scanner or a Peake tool ... if you have neither, then I'd suggest taking it to an indy shop and have them give you the specific codes before you or they do any work.

Post 'em up hear if you can ...
i suspect that it's most likely a o2 sensor and or throttle position sensor error that's fouling you all up ... but hard to say without those codes ...

Last edited by matterhorn; 01-08-2010 at 04:20 PM.
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Old 01-08-2010, 04:25 PM   #37
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first off... you need to figure out if it is pre cat or post cat o2 sensors... if they are precat then they need to be replaced. They are probably fouled just like your plugs...

secondly you need to figure out the ignition problems... to do this though, you are going to need a BMW scanner or a Peake tool ... if you have neither, then I'd suggest taking it to an indy shop and have them give you the specific codes before you or they do any work.

Post 'em up hear if you can ...
i suspect that it's most likely a o2 sensor and or throttle position sensor error that's fouling you all up ... but hard to say without those codes ...
Thanks, yea that's why I've come to the conclusion that I've done as much as I can and the next step is tow it to the indy shop. I don't think my o2 sensors have ever been changed and I hear you should change them every 100k miles and I'm sitting at 115.

However, I don't think I'm having ignition problems so I'm confused about that.
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Old 01-09-2010, 08:59 AM   #38
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Thanks, yea that's why I've come to the conclusion that I've done as much as I can and the next step is tow it to the indy shop. I don't think my o2 sensors have ever been changed and I hear you should change them every 100k miles and I'm sitting at 115.

However, I don't think I'm having ignition problems so I'm confused about that.
as he said , if it's your precat o2 sensors that are bad you'd get all of the symptoms you said.

A quick test would be to hook up a voltmeter to the sensor (black wires , stay away from the white ones since they will fry your meter)

On idle you should be getting somwhere between 0.8 to 0.4 volts , anything lower (if i recall correctly) means the sensor is bad.

Also if you suspect the MAF to be the culprit , just unplug it and see how it runs, if the car runs fine your MAF is dirty/fouled.
(though the o2 sensors should correct for a bad MAF reading)
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Old 01-11-2010, 10:46 AM   #39
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let us know how it goes - I'm curious to see how this one works out ...
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Old 01-11-2010, 11:28 PM   #40
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Yea, I'll keep you guys updated. I'm sitting on it for a couple weeks because I only have 1,000 bucks to spend right now and since I'm towing it to the indy I'd rather have 2k saved just to be prepared for more. The good thing is at least I saved some money on the stuff that I did DIY thanks to all the info here. I'll be taking it in on the 26th. I definitely know for sure that it needs at least one 02 sensor if not all of them. :/
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