E46 BMW Social Directory E46 FAQ 3-Series Discussion Forums BMW Photo Gallery BMW 3-Series Technical Information E46 Fanatics - The Ultimate BMW Resource BMW Vendors General E46 Forum The Tire Rack's Tire Wheel Forum Forced Induction Forum The Off-Topic The E46 BMW Showroom For Sale, For Trade or Wanting to Buy

Welcome to the E46Fanatics forums. E46Fanatics is the premiere website for BMW 3 series owners around the world with interactive forums, a geographical enthusiast directory, photo galleries, and technical information for BMW enthusiasts.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

Go Back   E46Fanatics > Tuning & Tech > DIY: Do It Yourself

DIY: Do It Yourself
Post here to share or improve your wrench turning skills! All BMW E46 DIY tips, tales, and projects discussed inside. Learn to work on your car and know the right BMW parts you will need!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rating: Thread Rating: 19 votes, 5.00 average. Display Modes
Old 12-23-2011, 11:37 AM   #81
beberle
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 181
My Ride: 2009 328 wagon
I just had my transmission rebuilt. Drives great. However, the starter is screeching on startup. I obviously suspect the starter alignment to the flywheel. Can anyone that's done the remove/reinstall tell from my pic if this is the alignment pin? Should you be able to see it? Opinions?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Starter alignment.jpg
Views:	285
Size:	124.9 KB
ID:	429806  

Last edited by beberle; 12-23-2011 at 12:15 PM.
beberle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2011, 12:15 PM   #82
beberle
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 181
My Ride: 2009 328 wagon
Started digging in from the top. Man, this isn't any fun! Now, I'm pretty sure the starter isn't even on the alignment pin even a little :-/ Thinking about taking it back to the transmission shop, but I'm afraid they'd dork it up even more! Since it's already on jacks and I have most of stuff out of the way... and I just need to loosen and straighten, I'll give it a shot.

This is a 2000 323it. Looks a bit different than the OPs pics. I'll have to remove at least two heater hoses to the core... any special steps involved? drain the radiator 1st??
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	alignment pin.jpg
Views:	170
Size:	50.2 KB
ID:	429820  
beberle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2011, 06:21 PM   #83
Mulrich07
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Lancaster, PA
Posts: 164
My Ride: 2004 325Ci
Was the air ratchet needed in any of the steps other than say taking off the bottom aluminum skid plate? I can't really see there being much room inside the engine area with that tool. Or am I thinking of that wrong?
Mulrich07 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2011, 07:27 PM   #84
phug
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: NJ
Posts: 77
My Ride: 323i Wagon
Just finished my starter replacement.

You only need a ratcheting 10mm wrench. Remove the electronic/brake plastic housing protector. Remove the two heater core hoses. No need to drain radiator because it's higher than the radiator.

Be sure to line up the starter guide pin a the top center between the two bolt locations. It should slide in without much effort. The bolts should also tighten easily until the end.
phug is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2012, 01:25 PM   #85
furnman487
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Arkansas, USA
Posts: 2
My Ride: 2003 325iT
Just finished replacing the starter on my 2003 E46 yesterday and wanted to give a shout out to the OP for the great write up. Saved me a bunch of time and effort in figuring out how it had to come apart. I removed the fuel filter cover and dropped the Lower control arm and the starter easily came out the bottom. I found a long combination E12 at Harbor Freight that made getting to the top bolt easier. Put a small pipe on that wrench to break it loose and tighten back up. A short 3/8 is also handy when you have it loose. I did not have to remove the heater hoses, but I have pretty small hands and arms, and there is very little room to work in there. Air ratchet won't be any help at all. All in all not a fun job, but I just won't pay to have something done that I know I can do myself.
furnman487 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2012, 11:42 AM   #86
drewseim
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Moorhead, MN
Posts: 12
My Ride: 2003 BMW 330xi
Great Write Up, But new issues have arisen?

So I performed my starter swap with this great write up ('03 330xi auto trans) last October. Went fairly smooth minus a few nicks and cuts on the ol' paws due to lack of space. My question is; has anyone else had any issues with starter grinding after performing the swap? I had no issues to speak of getting the starter aligned on the pin and tightened the starter into place by alternating turns on both the top and bottom bolts to ensure that it was seated correctly. Once finished the started appeared to be seated all the way around without any noticeable gaps. I don't have grinding noises emitting from the engine bay every time, but on average over the past six months I would say that it happens 1/4 or maybe 1/5 starts. The grinding sound isn't so much of a brute force grind, but sounds as if the starter is slipping. Today I pulled off everything necessary to actually see the starter and it seems to still be seated 100%. I also looked at the flywheel throught the slots in the bell housing and it doesn't appear to have any damage to the cogs. I guess I'm just at a loss for ideas.... Any thoughts???
drewseim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2012, 04:33 PM   #87
danhammer
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: nj
Posts: 1
My Ride: 328i
how many bolts do you have to take off the starter 2 or 3?
danhammer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2012, 09:02 PM   #88
Mulrich07
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Lancaster, PA
Posts: 164
My Ride: 2004 325Ci
Quote:
Originally Posted by danhammer View Post
how many bolts do you have to take off the starter 2 or 3?
It's 2 bolts to dismount it.
Mulrich07 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2012, 11:05 PM   #89
niriyo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: SIMI VALLEY
Posts: 6
My Ride: 2003 325i
Absolutely perfet write up on starter removal. I just replaced my starter on 2003- 325i. I could not have done this with out this diy.
niriyo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2012, 10:37 AM   #90
dmast
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: San Jose,CA
Posts: 17
My Ride: 330ci
Yeah, I did mine a few months back and this DIY was essential. Using 3ft of extensions, across the top of the Tranny was the key.
dmast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2012, 10:42 AM   #91
drewseim
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Moorhead, MN
Posts: 12
My Ride: 2003 BMW 330xi
New Starter, Slipping/Slight Grinding Noise

I replaced my starter and now every once in awhile I get a grinding/slipping noise. The starter is seated properly, all connections have been cleaned and tightened, the pinion gear is still in great condition, the flex-plate shows no wear. I talked with two different BMW mechanics and they both say the starter is no good based on the symptoms. I bought a reman (Bosch housing but not a Bosch Reman) from Auto Zone. I took the starter back to Auto Zone and it tests fine. Is it possible that its not under enough load during the test to show any faults? In hindsight I wish I had bought a Bosch to begin with, but here we are. Has anyone heard of anything similar to this? I hate to buy another starter if that isn't the case.
drewseim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2012, 12:54 AM   #92
Stinger9
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: New York
Posts: 7,934
My Ride: '04 330Ci
Just one point. You removed the eight bolts for the structural brace, but never did I see anything about putting this back. Each of these eight bolts MUST BE REPLACED with new ones each time as they are one time usuage bolts. Not following this direction could be dangerous.
And you must follow the correct torquing procedure.
Stinger9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2012, 11:53 AM   #93
dmast
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: San Jose,CA
Posts: 17
My Ride: 330ci
IMHO the only reason I can see a bolt is "one time use" is because it is pre-treated with thread lock. If there is corrosion, then I would replace. I just applied lock-tite to mine and reused them. But torque proceedure/specs is essential
dmast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2012, 12:59 PM   #94
Stinger9
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: New York
Posts: 7,934
My Ride: '04 330Ci
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmast View Post
IMHO the only reason I can see a bolt is "one time use" is because it is pre-treated with thread lock. If there is corrosion, then I would replace. I just applied lock-tite to mine and reused them. But torque proceedure/specs is essential
I bow to your superior knowledge to the Bentley manual which instructs to always replace these M10 bolts every time. They must know nothing about these torque to yield bolts.
Happy motoring!



http://www.canadiantechnician.com/fo...&threadid=2647

http://freeasestudyguides.com/a1_4.html

http://freeasestudyguides.com/a1_4.html

http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Arti...uetoangle.aspx

http://blogs.carcraft.com/6509072/ed...gle/index.html
Stinger9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2012, 02:22 PM   #95
dmast
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: San Jose,CA
Posts: 17
My Ride: 330ci
Does Bentley say Why???? Do they have a high fatigue rate??? Are they shear bolts???...... Or is it just the goo that makes them so hard to unscrew the first time out and easy going back in. Bentley Schmentley..... tell me why?

I'm just a stupid Engineer
dmast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2012, 03:01 PM   #96
Stinger9
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: New York
Posts: 7,934
My Ride: '04 330Ci
I know engineers can't read good, but did you know that those are five URL's that I've posted under my last post for you to read.
Who said anything about sheer bolts?
These are clearly Torque to Yield bolts.
Stinger9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2012, 05:49 PM   #97
dmast
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: San Jose,CA
Posts: 17
My Ride: 330ci
Again I'm just a stupid engineer..... But why "are they clearly torque to yield bolts" Does the discription of the Part# say that??? Do you have the part spec???

Torque to yield bolts are used where there is lots of themal expansion and you need even presure on ...oh say, a gasket seat(or don't you read) And it would sure be the first time I've seen a torque to yield bolt, that's cadium plated. ???????

If I was to guess.... I would say you have Alum. sandwiched between steel. After you hit the spec torque and once you go through some body roll, that torque is but a memory because the Alum. has extruded(you can see this if you look around the holes)At that point vibration could make the bolt wiggle loose without a lock.

This would be a perfect application for a split lock washer. Instead they buy thread lock by the 55 gallon drum, because the engineers don't want the added weight and the bean counters don't want the added expense and the service folks can charge you a couple saw bucks(x8) for a $1 part..... so everyone is happy.... even the folks who think Bentleys is the word of God, instead of a reprint of BMW T.I.S
dmast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2012, 07:35 AM   #98
Dan330Ci~
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 216
My Ride: 330Ci Clubsport
Lol I agree with dmast, as a fellow stupid engineer.

A jointing torque plus angle does not make a torque-to-yield fastener. It is clear to an engineer with experience in fasteners that 60 NM plus 90 deg. is not torque-to-yield for an M10 fastener, of the specified grade 10.9.

I would consider that these fasteners are specified to be replaced each time they are removed due to the thread locking compound being pre-applied, plus as dmast states they are plated - ZNS3 (hexavalent chromium-free). With a plated fastener you may choose to specify replacement each time due to the natural degradation of the plating, which can range from say 0.1 um per year for a dry indoor (or storage) environment to 8 um per year for an exterior coastal environment (or let's say salty road conditions). The plating thickness of BMW's GS 90010 ZNS3 specification is 8 um minimum, therefore in their location underneath the car you may expect a few years of corrosion protection, depending on the country, then the substrate will corrode which in this case is the fastener. BMW design does not know when these fasteners will be removed in-service, it may be every 1 month or 15 years, therefore they have specified replacement upon removal.

However, this does not preclude replacement of the fasteners each time as specified, as these are just my considerations of the available information.

It is for the above reasons I replace most plated fasteners (and most unplated) in exposed locations on the car when I remove them, as I am aware that the plating service life may be nearly expired with my car being 7 years old. The main benefit of this is ease of dissasembly next time I have to disassemble them - they won't have corroded in the meantime.

Another example of one-time-use fasteners on the E46 is the driveshaft to diff output flange bolts, which are one-time-use because the underside of the head is ribbed which becomes distorted upon tightening, providing an anti-vibration feature.

There are further examples of one-time-use such as the steering column torx fasteners, again plated with locking compound pre-applied.

If either of the above examples used a jointing torque plus angle I would expect people to believe they were torque-to-yield however neither would be.

dmast you stated that the bolts are 'extruded' into the aluminium surface, I would use the term embedding. However, your observation is correct.

Hopefully this provides some food for thought.
__________________
'04 330Ci Clubsport | Estoril Blue | 6MT | Black Leather/Silver Cube
Turner Motorsport | Ground Control | Stett Performance | Moroso | Powerflex | Meyle HD | Goodridge

Last edited by Dan330Ci~; 04-22-2012 at 03:24 AM.
Dan330Ci~ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2012, 12:29 PM   #99
dmast
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: San Jose,CA
Posts: 17
My Ride: 330ci
Thanks Dan ....you clearly have a clue. As I think I said earlier, if they had corrosion, I'd swap em out. I'm in Calif, so after 11 years, mine are still bright

True, "embedded" would have been a better choice of word, but I was thinking more of material properties. The cross brace is likely 3003 alloy(maybe 1100) so also a waste of a Torque to yield bolt on such soft material

You also have have more patience than I, in explaining to meatheads that they are "clearly" not as brilliant as their egos think they are. This is one reason the internet is so dangerous. Morons will read one page on...oh say Psychology and suddenly they are experts, walking around seeing Passive/Aggressive behavior in everyone(or whatever it is they just read about)
dmast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2012, 11:03 PM   #100
Phantoms69
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Arizona
Posts: 82
My Ride: 330ci
HOLY CRAP THIS WAS A P.I.T.A.!!!!!!

Any way, finally got done. This was by far the hardest starter I have ever changed out. Thanks for the write up. I was able to get to the top bolt from the bottom with the "E" socket, I had to because the bolts were so freaking tight the wrench wouldn't budge it even with another wrench being used as a breaker bar I almost broke the universal and extensions trying to get the bolts loose. The new starter would not get on the pin for anything, cleaning the pin, sanding lightly, WD-40 or anything else would work so I had to drill it out just a bit and then I was able to get it on. I went 1/32nd or so over the size it was.

While I was down there I also replaced some vacuum hoses that were deteriorated. Got it back together and so far so good.

This is do-able for anyone who is thinking of attempting just be ready for what ever comes up.

Thanks again to OP for the write up....
__________________


My 330Ci - A work in progress.....
M3 Front Bumper - M-Tech II Rear Bumper - Sprint Booster - K&N Cold Air Intake - BMW Performance Carbon Fiber Strut Brace - Dynavin Android Radio
19" Staggered iForged Daytonas - Quad Tip Muffler Delete - Smoked Corners and Rear Lights with LED - 6000k Angel Eyes -
Phantoms69 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Censor is ON





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:00 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
(c) 1999 - 2011 performanceIX Inc - privacy policy - terms of use