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Old 01-29-2014, 08:18 AM   #1
Slupe
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Emissions Readiness Help

I purchased a 2004 330ci ZHP Vert from Florida in late Dec. and have titled it in WI and need to pass emissions by Feb 9. I had an inspection from an indy BMW shop and other than a small coolant leak, got a strong report and no other issues identified.

I started having intermittent check gas cap warnings, followed by SES. I replaced the gas cap and cleaned around the filler and the gas cap warning issues have gone away. I bought an ELM327 and a free Iphone app to read and clear the SES and then went for my emissions check. That is when I learned about emissions readiness sensors. Per my failed inspection - the secondary air, heated O2, Evap control, and O2 sensors are not ready. I told them my story about the gas cap and being reset. The emissions guy said that they didn't see any codes and they emissions readiness monitor just need some time after codes are cleared to reset themselves. His advice was give it a couple days to a week of regular driving and come back.

Did I mention In WI, the inspections are done by your instant oil change places, so I purchased the OBD fusion app to be able check the readiness myself and see if anything else came up. Attached are a couple screen shots.

It looks to me like the O2 sensors are now ready, but the evap control and secondary air are not. I am not getting any "hard" error codes, but I am getting a pending error P0411 that is not turning on the SES light.

So - anyone familiar with the P0411. Do I continue to drive and wait for everything to reset or could the P0411 be causing a delay in emissions readiness?

I am obviously still a newbie learning as I go, so if there's other info I need to capture from OBD fusion, just let me know and I can do it after the drive home tonight.
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Old 01-29-2014, 08:21 AM   #2
GSX
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Just give it more time, eventually the remaining readiness checks will pass. I faced the same issue a few weeks ago.


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Old 01-29-2014, 08:24 AM   #3
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SAP should be the first thing to clear, usually in the first cold start.

You have a 2004 330, you likely have the newer SAP system with the MAF?

Suggest you read this and look at the picture I have in the link - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthr...ight=priceless

If you have the newer SAP system with the MAF, probable the SAP MAF will need to be replaced.

As for Evap, it is the last thing to clear. You want about 3/4 tank of fuel, not full and not empty and you have to cruise it on the highway for about 10-15 miles.

Hope this gets you heading in the proper direction.
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Old 01-29-2014, 09:12 AM   #4
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jfoj - thanks for the info and link. Could the P0411 code go back to the gas cap issue I had and is it possible that my free iphone app only cleared the "hard codes" and the SES light went off, but didn't clear the pending P0411? Any harm to clearing and seeing what happens other than restarting the emissions readiness monitoring?

Supposed to by 15F and dropping when I get home from work today, so I am trying to be even lazier than you :-)
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Old 01-29-2014, 10:42 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slupe View Post
jfoj - thanks for the info and link. Could the P0411 code go back to the gas cap issue I had and is it possible that my free iphone app only cleared the "hard codes" and the SES light went off, but didn't clear the pending P0411? Any harm to clearing and seeing what happens other than restarting the emissions readiness monitoring?

Supposed to by 15F and dropping when I get home from work today, so I am trying to be even lazier than you :-)
The P0411 should not be replaced the the gas cap issue, but with any of these codes sometimes there are some strange connections.

Resetting codes usually will even clear "pending codes" a pending code is a problem that is detected, however, the DME will wait a few start cycles to see what happens. If the same error events are detected, the "pending code" will turn into a "hard code" and trigger the SES/CEL/MIL.

If the events appear to be intermittent, either the "pending code" will stay or it will disappear on its own.

If your SAP system does not have the vacuum controlled Kombi valve and it has the MAF on the pump input after the filter, it is highly likely that the SAP MAF is bad. Mine triggered in Jan as well, not sure why, it was quicker and easier for me to order the part than to try and wrestle with the system in the cold. So I replaced the SAP MAF back when I made that post and I have had no issue since.

If you clear the codes again, you start the Emission Readiness Monitors over again. And if you have issues, they will take longer to clear.

I would continue to drive and make sure you get the car out on the highway for at least 10-15 miles and hopefully your Evap will clear?

But every time you cold start the engine, you are getting closer to a hard P0411 code if there is a real problem with the SAP system.
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Old 01-29-2014, 08:55 PM   #6
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Here is the latest: I started the car after work and the SES light came on. I checked the codes and I now have a pending and hard P0411 code. I turned off the car, cleared both codes, and SES light is off. All the emissions readiness indicators are back to not ready. I restart the car and still have no codes. After the drive home, both O2 sensor emission readiness is good, but the SAP and evap control are not ready. My gas tank was only about half full, so I fill it up to 3/4 and just drove 15 highway miles. I stopped and checked everything and there's no change (no codes, but neither the SAP or evap control are emissions ready). I do some shopping and then drive another 15 miles home. No change.

At this point, all I know to do is see what happens in the morning with a cold start and hope evap control clears at some point. Any other suggestions?

JFOJ - I do have the same SAP set-up as you.

Andy
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Old 01-29-2014, 11:38 PM   #7
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Some info about the EVAP test:

LEAK DIAGNOSIS TEST PRECONDITIONS
The ECM only initiates a leak diagnosis test every second time the criteria are met. The criteria
is as follows:
• Engine OFF with ignition switched OFF.
• Engine Control Module still in active state or what is known as “follow up mode” (Main
Relay energized, control module and DME components online for extended period after
key off).
• Prior to Engine/Ignition switch OFF condition, vehicle must have been driven for a minimum
of 20 minutes.
• Prior to minimum 20 minute drive, the vehicle must have been OFF for a minimum of 5
hours.
• Fuel Tank Capacity must be between 15 and 85% (safe approximation between 1/4 -
3/4 of a tank).
• Ambient Air Temperature between -7C & 35C (20F & 95F )
• Altitude < 2500m (8,202 feet).
• Battery Voltage between 11.5 and 14.5 Volts
When these criteria are satisfied every second time, the ECM will start the Fuel System Leak
Diagnosis Test.
The test will typically be carried out once a day i.e. once after driving to
work in the morning, when driving home in the evening, the criteria are once again met but
the test is not initiated. The following morning, the test will run again.
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Old 01-30-2014, 07:00 AM   #8
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Most likely the SAP MAF needs to be replaced. SAP Readiness Monitor should clear on first cold start if the SAP system is working properly.
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Old 01-30-2014, 08:12 AM   #9
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Here is the very latest.

JFOJ - I got a pending P0411 back on my cold start this morning, so I will follow your trouble shooting thread tonight after work. Stupid question (see my pic) - is the pump the round thing in the middle of the pic with the hose coming out the top? Do you have the part number for the MAF? I see where that goes and it looks pretty easy. I would like to rule the pump out first.

shanneba - thanks - that is very helpful. That's quite the list and I'm guessing a combination of cold weather and my driving cycles haven't aligned. We haven't been above 20F lately.

Unless we get some warmer weather, it looks like I need to deal with the SAP now so I can get enough emissions sensors ready to pass my emissions.

You guys are awesome - thanks!
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Old 01-30-2014, 08:32 AM   #10
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http://www.bmaparts.com/item.wws?sku...O&weight=0.170

Free shipping with $75 order, add an oil filter, or if you were smart, you would order a fuel pump and keep it on hand, you WILL need it soon!

Yes the pump is the round thing with the hose in the middle,

If the MAF is bad, the pump will only run about 5 seconds, you can also pop the center hose and make sure the impeller will spin, do this with the car turned off!

You are almost exactly on the same time frame and weather when my MAF for the SAP went bad, my car is a 2005 330 cic!

Good luck, its not too hard.

Hopefully the evap will clear once you follow the guidelines, EVAP is a PITA and usually the last Readiness Monitor to clear.
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Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temps, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

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Old 01-30-2014, 12:00 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slupe View Post
I purchased a 2004 330ci ZHP Vert from Florida in late Dec. and have titled it in WI and need to pass emissions by Feb 9. I had an inspection from an indy BMW shop and other than a small coolant leak, got a strong report and no other issues identified.

I started having intermittent check gas cap warnings, followed by SES. I replaced the gas cap and cleaned around the filler and the gas cap warning issues have gone away. I bought an ELM327 and a free Iphone app to read and clear the SES and then went for my emissions check. That is when I learned about emissions readiness sensors. Per my failed inspection - the secondary air, heated O2, Evap control, and O2 sensors are not ready. I told them my story about the gas cap and being reset. The emissions guy said that they didn't see any codes and they emissions readiness monitor just need some time after codes are cleared to reset themselves. His advice was give it a couple days to a week of regular driving and come back.

Did I mention In WI, the inspections are done by your instant oil change places, so I purchased the OBD fusion app to be able check the readiness myself and see if anything else came up. Attached are a couple screen shots.

It looks to me like the O2 sensors are now ready, but the evap control and secondary air are not. I am not getting any "hard" error codes, but I am getting a pending error P0411 that is not turning on the SES light.

So - anyone familiar with the P0411. Do I continue to drive and wait for everything to reset or could the P0411 be causing a delay in emissions readiness?

I am obviously still a newbie learning as I go, so if there's other info I need to capture from OBD fusion, just let me know and I can do it after the drive home tonight.
When you reset the codes, this triggers a mode called Readiness Monitor. The monitors take several _qualified_ drive cycles to complete, and make the car ready. Depending onthe jurisdiction, you can have a couple of monitors still in the Not Ready state, and the car can be smogged. You have described a condition where there are too many monitors that are still running.

You can do a search for OBD II DRIVE CYCLE and learn what it takes to complete one. It is very easy that your driving profile can have you drive the car for several days, or even weeks, before enough drive cycles have been logged for the readiness monitors to be completed.
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Old 01-30-2014, 12:01 PM   #12
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http://www.obd-codes.com/p0411

Here's some help on your code, P0411.
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Old 01-30-2014, 08:06 PM   #13
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ok guys - I checked the pump and it spins freely. I started the car and the pump did not run, but the car had only been off for 1 hr or so after my drive from work.

Does the SAP only run when the car is cold? Based on the outside temp or coolant temp or a sensor somewhere else?
How long should it run?

I am guessing I need to check this in the morning...

If it runs for just a little while, then order the MAF sensor...
If it doesn't run at all, then ???
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Old 01-30-2014, 08:48 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slupe View Post
ok guys - I checked the pump and it spins freely. I started the car and the pump did not run, but the car had only been off for 1 hr or so after my drive from work.

Does the SAP only run when the car is cold? Based on the outside temp or coolant temp or a sensor somewhere else?
How long should it run?

I am guessing I need to check this in the morning...

If it runs for just a little while, then order the MAF sensor...
If it doesn't run at all, then ???
The pump only runs on cold start, I believe the engine coolant temp has to be under 110F?

So check it in the morning, my guess is it will run for 5 seconds then shut off?

If so, time to purchase a SAP MAF.

If you order it in the morning from BMA Parts, you will probably have it Sat or Mon with standard shipping.
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Old 01-31-2014, 08:03 AM   #15
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jfoj - On my cold start this morning, the SAP ran for about 5-10 seconds and then shut off. Your original post was spot on. It just took me a few days to figure out what I was looking for and to get a cold start to see if the pump was running at all!

I just ordered the SAP MAF from BMA.
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Old 02-06-2014, 06:40 AM   #16
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The SAP MAF arrived yesterday from BMA. I installed last night and reset my SES codes. BUT - I still have the same problem. On my cold start this morning, the pump ran for 10 seconds and then stopped. I have the pending P0411 back.

My questions now:
1 - I did not realize the BMW hose clamps are not reusable, so I still need to replace the hose clamp for the hose to MAF. The hose is just stuck on the MAF, but not clamped. Could the pump draw enough air thru there vs the MAF to cause this still?
2 - The filter before the MAF looks very dirty. Is that replaceable and would that have anything to do with it anyway?
3 - If those are not it, then what next - the relay?
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Old 02-06-2014, 07:23 AM   #17
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I recall the MAF air filter can be opened up and cleaned?

As a test, you could leave the filter off and see what happens, but I think you can easily clean it?

Make sure the connector is fully plugged in and the terminals are tight.

This is also a 2 way street, garbage in = garbage out.

You may also disconnect the pump output hose and see if the pump runs longer.

If for some reason the pump output is restricted/clogged, the the input MAF will not register enough airflow and will likely cause the pump to shut down early.
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Old 02-06-2014, 07:31 AM   #18
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gas tank has to be at least 3/4 full for evap and sec air to reset
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Old 02-06-2014, 10:20 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slupe View Post
ok guys - I checked the pump and it spins freely. I started the car and the pump did not run, but the car had only been off for 1 hr or so after my drive from work.

Does the SAP only run when the car is cold? Based on the outside temp or coolant temp or a sensor somewhere else?
How long should it run?

I am guessing I need to check this in the morning...

If it runs for just a little while, then order the MAF sensor...
If it doesn't run at all, then ???
If you have a code for the secondary Air Injection, it will not start the pump.
The info below is for the older M54 MS43 may not exactly apply to the M54 with MS45 ECUs (the MS45 ECU has a different SAP system with a MAF sensor)

SECONDARY AIR INJECTION MONITORING
In order to reduce HC and CO emissions while the engine is warming up, BMW implemented
the use of a Secondary Air Injection System. Immediately following a cold engine
start (-10 - 40°C)
fresh air/oxygen is injected directly into the exhaust manifold. By injecting
oxygen into the exhaust manifold:
• The warm up time of the catalyst is reduced
• Oxidation of the hydrocarbons is accelerated
The activation period of the air pump can vary depending on engine type and operating
conditions.


Conditions for Secondary Air Pump Activation:
*NOTE: Below -10°C the air injection pump is activated only as a preventive measure to
blow out any accumulated water vapor that could freeze in the system.
33
Engine Management Systems
REQUIREMENTS STATUS/CONDITION MS43

Oxygen sensor Open Loop
Oxygen sensor heating Active
Engine coolant temperature -10 to 40ºC*
Engine bad?? Predefined Range
Engine speed Predefined Range
Fault Codes No Secondary Air Faults “currently present”


*NOTE: Below -10°C the air injection pump is activated only as a preventive measure to
blow out any accumulated water vapor that could freeze in the system.
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Old 02-06-2014, 10:40 AM   #20
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for wiw, i had that code a year ago, thought , oh, need a new pump, cleared it and have never seen it again
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