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Go Back   E46Fanatics > Tuning & Tech > Driveline, Engine & DME Tuning

Driveline, Engine & DME Tuning
Talk about driveline improvements, NA tuning and DME tuning your E46 BMW here. This includes diffs, intakes, exhausts, chips, software and OBD tuning.

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Old 07-17-2016, 10:12 PM   #1
rkneeshaw
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ZHP cam specs

I've googled the interwebs and am finding conflicting information.

Some reports of the cams being 248/10.0 intake and 248/10.0 exhaust, but other reputable sources saying definitely not.

http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/show...&postcount=319
http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showpos...7&postcount=37
http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showpos...0&postcount=45
http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showpos...67&postcount=9
http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showpos...2&postcount=14

This post is the only other measurement I've seen posted for the ZHP cams, he thinks the ZHP uses a 244/9.7 intake cam

http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...6#post29105596

I think some people are assuming that the Schrick 248/10.0 248/10.0 cams for the M52TU are the ZHP cams, without any direct evidence.

Actually, it seems it is confirmed the ZHP cams are sourced from Alpina.

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showpos...12&postcount=1

Does anyone out there have a set of ZHP cams laying around and the means to measure them so we can put this to bed once and for all?
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Old 07-18-2016, 02:38 AM   #2
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Alpina doesnt make any special parts, they are all purchased from different companies. Without evidence, im pretty shure BMW got that cams manufactured from Schrick, at least its design.
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Old 07-18-2016, 08:45 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by daniel_f. View Post
Alpina doesnt make any special parts, they are all purchased from different companies. Without evidence, im pretty shure BMW got that cams manufactured from Schrick, at least its design.
Understood. So maybe Alpina came up with the cam profile and provided it to whomever BMW used to make the cam, which may or may not have been Schrick. And then if it was Schrick then we are deducing they probably used their 248/248 set.

That's a lot of maybe/if/probably/etc.

For me personally, I'm exploring the possibility of a regrind on the ZHP cams but whether they are really 244 or 248 makes or breaks my plans.

We need to get a measurement off these cams and know for sure.
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Old 07-18-2016, 10:13 AM   #4
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I think I recall reading that the Schrick 248/248s have identical markings to the ZHP cams. I wonder if we can find pictures of both

Edit: Actually the engraved markings probably mean nothing beyond that they start with the same blanks
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Old 07-18-2016, 10:56 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by TerraPhantm View Post
Edit: Actually the engraved markings probably mean nothing beyond that they start with the same blanks
Yeah thats exactly what I was going to point out. Again, another "rumor", but allegedly Schrick starts with OEM blanks to make all their cams.
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Old 07-18-2016, 05:43 PM   #6
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Pretty sure they are 248/248 buy a pair and send them to a cam doctor and find out.
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Old 07-18-2016, 06:05 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rkneeshaw View Post
I've googled the interwebs and am finding conflicting information.

Some reports of the cams being 248/10.0 intake and 248/10.0 exhaust, but other reputable sources saying definitely not.

http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/show...&postcount=319
http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showpos...7&postcount=37
http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showpos...0&postcount=45
http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showpos...67&postcount=9
http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showpos...2&postcount=14

This post is the only other measurement I've seen posted for the ZHP cams, he thinks the ZHP uses a 244/9.7 intake cam

http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...6#post29105596

I think some people are assuming that the Schrick 248/10.0 248/10.0 cams for the M52TU are the ZHP cams, without any direct evidence.

Actually, it seems it is confirmed the ZHP cams are sourced from Alpina.

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showpos...12&postcount=1

Does anyone out there have a set of ZHP cams laying around and the means to measure them so we can put this to bed once and for all?
I see what you are up to from your other post, will you get custom dyno tuning when you're finished or will you just install and use them the way they are?
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Old 07-18-2016, 10:32 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by zander271 View Post
Pretty sure they are 248/248 buy a pair and send them to a cam doctor and find out.
Rob43 has a set in a box but it doesn't sound like there is a cam doctor anywhere near him so he'd have to ship?

If we threw a set of calipers on the cams we could confirm lift, that's part of the equation. Would take 3 minutes.

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Originally Posted by SK330ci View Post
I see what you are up to from your other post, will you get custom dyno tuning when you're finished or will you just install and use them the way they are?
Undecided. I might install them as-is and dyno to see the gains before any changes to the tune. Then either custom tune or out-of-box ESS TS2+ tune. Since I want to do methanol injection too, and I already have a 79mm pulley, I might just go straight to a custom dyno tune.

It sounds like ESS tried a few different cams and had the most success with the 248/256 setup, so that's what I'm looking for. There is a possibility of doing a more aggressive 260/264 setup (or something like that) but I'm told that's only useful for high boost (14+ psi) and high RPM (7k+) and that's not for me or my M54's oil pump nut lol

Someone must have a set and be near a shop with a cam doctor or other tool to measure cam specs.

The conflicting information drives me nuts.
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Old 07-19-2016, 01:33 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rkneeshaw View Post

Undecided. I might install them as-is and dyno to see the gains before any changes to the tune. Then either custom tune or out-of-box ESS TS2+ tune. Since I want to do methanol injection too, and I already have a 79mm pulley, I might just go straight to a custom dyno tune.

It sounds like ESS tried a few different cams and had the most success with the 248/256 setup, so that's what I'm looking for. There is a possibility of doing a more aggressive 260/264 setup (or something like that) but I'm told that's only useful for high boost (14+ psi) and high RPM (7k+) and that's not for me or my M54's oil pump nut lol

Someone must have a set and be near a shop with a cam doctor or other tool to measure cam specs.

The conflicting information drives me nuts.
Undecided??????? I'm not try to be mean but are you crazy?

You want to change 3 major performance parameters for your super charger- A] smaller pulley B] meth injection C] FI cams

You will clearly need a custom tune period to make it run correctly.

So since you're on the road to getting a custom tune [whether you know it or not], none of these cam questions makes any difference in any way. Why? Because a custom tune doesn't care if you have 248/256 or 247/256 or 248/255 or 249/256 or 248/254 on and on and on and on. Stop over thinking this.
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Old 07-19-2016, 07:37 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by SK330ci View Post
Undecided??????? I'm not try to be mean but are you crazy?

You want to change 3 major performance parameters for your super charger- A] smaller pulley B] meth injection C] FI cams

You will clearly need a custom tune period to make it run correctly.

So since you're on the road to getting a custom tune [whether you know it or not], none of these cam questions makes any difference in any way. Why? Because a custom tune doesn't care if you have 248/256 or 247/256 or 248/255 or 249/256 or 248/254 on and on and on and on. Stop over thinking this.
Thanks but no.

First of all, my current tune is rich so I have room to run a smaller pulley. Second, if I run methanal it doesnt demand a custom tune, although that would be optimal. Third, I may not do all of these mods at once and would prefer keeping my options open, including getting the TS2+ canned tune and calling it a day.

Most importantly, I'd like to see if we can correct the misinformation floating around about the ZHP cams.
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Old 07-19-2016, 05:40 PM   #11
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Lets keep this fun and friendly. Posts stripped.

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Old 07-19-2016, 05:55 PM   #12
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So to clarify, if someone has a set of ZHP cams laying around and is willing to help, let me know. I'll try to find a place to get them measured and cover the expense.
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Old 07-19-2016, 06:17 PM   #13
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I Emailed Schrick AVL earlier today, let's see if I get a response. But don't hold your breath.



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Old 07-19-2016, 09:54 PM   #14
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Thanks but no.

First of all, my current tune is rich so I have room to run a smaller pulley. Second, if I run methanal it doesnt demand a custom tune, although that would be optimal. Third, I may not do all of these mods at once and would prefer keeping my options open, including getting the TS2+ canned tune and calling it a day.

Most importantly, I'd like to see if we can correct the misinformation floating around about the ZHP cams.

I have no idea what the specs are on the ZHP set. ECS used to sell them as an upgrade and I seem to remember them quoting 248/248 can't be 100% sure though.

I looked seriously into doing cams and did a lot of research on overlap etc. Too much overlap in an FI application defeats the purpose of the increased cylinder pressures.
I concluded that the costs would not return enough HP/TQ to make it worthwhile.
It turns out the overlap I put so much research into really does not matter according to TTFS aka Frank Smith because of the huge range of adjustment in the Vanos.

Finally I also had and still have a somewhat rich tune and did the 2.87" pulley and WMI. AFR's are decent now but still rich. I am working with TTFS to perfect the tune.
As an aside I can break the rear end loose in 2nd gear. Engine pulls strong.
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Old 07-19-2016, 10:52 PM   #15
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the best way is always to measure for yourself if you want to know the truth.
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Old 07-19-2016, 11:30 PM   #16
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What's all this fuss about ZHP camshafts? ZHP cams alone make only 2hp at the wheel and 3hp with a tune. Here is the proof:

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=819857
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Old 07-20-2016, 08:02 AM   #17
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the best way is always to measure for yourself if you want to know the truth.
Agreed! But my cams are in the car at the moment. If someone has a set laying around it would be much easier.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HakenTT View Post
What's all this fuss about ZHP camshafts? ZHP cams alone make only 2hp at the wheel and 3hp with a tune. Here is the proof:

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=819857
There are a couple reasons this info would be helpful.

1. If the ZHP cam is in fact 248/10.0, then that means my ZHP already has the correct intake cam for the FI set and I would only need to source a 256 exhaust cam.

2. I'm considering regrinding the ZHP cam to the FI specs, and I'm told I can only get a regrind within 10 degrees of the original specs. A 248 degree ZHP cam would allow me to get to 256, but a 244 would not.

3. It would be great to clear this up once and for all.
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Old 07-20-2016, 08:06 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by dbarton62 View Post
I looked seriously into doing cams and did a lot of research on overlap etc. Too much overlap in an FI application defeats the purpose of the increased cylinder pressures.
I concluded that the costs would not return enough HP/TQ to make it worthwhile.
It turns out the overlap I put so much research into really does not matter according to TTFS aka Frank Smith because of the huge range of adjustment in the Vanos.
That's consistent with my research on overlap, except that I was finding reports 20-30whp from the FI cams (248 intake/256 exhaust) on a supercharged car.

I hear Frank Smith does some great work!
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Old 07-21-2016, 03:03 AM   #19
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This may or may not help you to know if the ZHP cam is a 248 or not.

This is a schrick 248 intake cam, firstly I dialled the indicator to 0 on the base circle (image 1429)

Now to make this easy and near enough to accurate as I can, I have used a spirt level on the front of the cam bolts (image 1430)

The first reading is 0.0156 (image 1432)

I then rotated the camshaft anti clockwise again and levelled the front bolts but this time I placed the spirit level from below the bolts (two bolts level at the bottom rotation, image 1434).

The reading was 0.3355 (image1436)

I then rotated anti clockwise one last time till I could level the front cam bolts at the top position again.

The reading was 0

Final photo is at maximum lift, and is at 0.3925 (image 1441)

This may help you rule out if the ZHP cam is or isnt the same as the schrick 248, in a relatively easy manner. It is the only relatively easy way I can think to help without access to a ZHP cam, and could be done with the cam in the car.
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Old 07-21-2016, 03:21 AM   #20
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Also, as someone who has purchased TS2 and the TS2+ upgrade from ESS, I didn't notice and difference in any of the vanos settings between the two tune files. Just an interesting note to consider
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