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Old 02-08-2010, 10:19 AM   #1
slickware
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Hard start & stalling problem - when car is warm?

Hi all,

Here's my scenario.
2000 323i sedan. Already replaced tranny, MAF, o2 sensors, entire radiator system, plugs, valve cover gasket, valve cover, oil separator unit, and basically everything else made out of plastic or rubber in the entire car. Awesome.

My issue now is this:
It's cold here - 20deg F most days.
Car starts first thing in the morning just fine - starts right up, fires up good.
When I get out of work around 5pm, the car takes a few cranks to start - sounds like it's not getting fuel - then it starts.
If I run an errand after work (3rd start of the day) - the car will take several seconds to fire up, rev really high for a second, and then fall to <500rpm and just stall. This will repeat almost every time I start the car after that, for the rest of the night. Sometimes I'll get it into gear (automatic) and it'll stall at stoplights, or when coasting on the brakes. During these hard-starts, I also have NO power. Feels like I'm driving a Ford Aspire. Scary to get on the highway or try to merge into traffic until the car hits about 4-5k rpm.

So I figure, this is a VANOS problem. Bought the seal kit from Besian and replaced that this weekend.

Hard-start problem still persists, but Now the car has power, all the time, but when it hard-starts it will still give me sluggish response until I really really punch it and make it jump.

I'm replacing the fuel filter today. The fuel pump is good, or at least functional, I can hear it when I turn the key to position #2.

Any other thoughts?
It's bizarre to me that this happens only when the car is WARM now. If it was VANOS related, I was under the impression that warmth made the symptoms go away.
I'm thinking:

1) bad fuel pump
2) bad fuel pressure regulator
3) bad coil(s)?
4) bad injector(s)?

Any thoughts on what else this might be?


(yay vanos removal!)



Thanks in advance, everyone.
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Old 02-08-2010, 10:28 AM   #2
Kingnog
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Do you have a check engine light? Run the codes and see if you have one for the cam shaft position sensor. Same thing happened to me with no power, stalling at lights, etc. It may be on its way out, so that's why sometimes it works fine and sometimes it doesn't.
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Old 02-08-2010, 10:38 AM   #3
slickware
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My CEL has been on for about 2 years. I have the PEAKE tool, and a scan seems to always return these codes:
"O2 Sensor Adapt Limit Cyl 1-3"
"O2 Sensor Adapt Limit Cyl 4-6"
"Cyl Misfire bank 1-3"

I've replaced the O2 sensors twice, so clearly that isn't my problem.
Sometimes it'll throw other random codes, but those are persistent.

Aren't there two camshaft position sensors, intake and exhaust?
Is there a way to test each and see which one might be bad so I don't have to spend $110 for each?
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Old 02-08-2010, 10:45 AM   #4
slickware
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Forgot to add -

When the car is warm, I will also get a rough idle after it has been idling in one spot for >1min.

It usually sits around 700rpm and feels like an irregular heartbeat - so I guess there could also be a misfire.

I tried replacing the ignition coil that was throwing the code with a new coil from Bavarian Autosports, but the car started bucking so badly, I put the old one back.
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Old 02-08-2010, 12:13 PM   #5
jzwu
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Clean throttle body/ICV.
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Old 02-08-2010, 12:16 PM   #6
slickware
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Did that also, but would that really cause such drastic issues anyway?
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Old 02-08-2010, 03:35 PM   #7
mack89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slickware View Post
Aren't there two camshaft position sensors, intake and exhaust?
Is there a way to test each and see which one might be bad so I don't have to spend $110 for each?
Stalling is definitely CPS problem..My first car had bunch of problems, both CPS exhaust and inlet(intake) sensors were bad. It used to stall when I try to accelerate, seems like you have similar symptoms. No need to tell it had hard start as well.. Bad CPS intake usually causes troubles, but you might wanna replace both of them to be sure..OEM's kinda expensive, 80~100 per one..Kobi's around 40~50 per one, because it's non-OEM. I don't know what the difference is, though. If you never replaced them, try asap...

Quote:
Originally Posted by slickware View Post
Did that also, but would that really cause such drastic issues anyway?
And dirty throttle body and dirty ICV can be a reason of limp mode, but they do not stall the car. Cleaning them is definitely helpful, though.
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Old 02-08-2010, 03:38 PM   #8
slickware
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haha, limp mode.

I thought that was just part of owning an automatic slushbox 323i.
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Old 02-08-2010, 03:42 PM   #9
mack89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slickware View Post
haha, limp mode.

I thought that was just part of owning an automatic slushbox 323i.
lol it can be caused by stuck throttle body & ICV, too..no throttle respond, car sputters, sth like that..Since you have cleaned them up, so you don't have to worry about'em
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Old 02-08-2010, 03:47 PM   #10
slickware
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I love the car, but I've seriously spent over $8k in repair on it. It's been hit-and-run a few times, plus all the rubber and plastic failures. What a mess.

I'll order a CPS today and will try and repost later when I figure out if that fixes it!
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Old 02-09-2010, 02:09 PM   #11
slickware
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Had fuel filter changed yesterday - still starts like crap after warmed up and still stalls.

CPS is on order, will be here tomorrow. Should be fun to install, we're supposed to get pounded with like a foot of snow I hear.
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Old 02-09-2010, 02:22 PM   #12
mack89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slickware View Post
Had fuel filter changed yesterday - still starts like crap after warmed up and still stalls.

CPS is on order, will be here tomorrow. Should be fun to install, we're supposed to get pounded with like a foot of snow I hear.
it'll be fun , yeah. you will need several tools like crescent wrench, bigger than 32mm, oil filter housing remover socket (which i remember is 36mm..) and allen drivers. thats it. follow diy posted on this forum, should take 30 mins to an hour.
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Old 02-09-2010, 02:24 PM   #13
slickware
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Well I had the fan off this weekend (32mm crescent) so that shouldn't be too bad to take off again. Plus the wrench has a 36mm on the other end (Bavauto fan clutch removal kit). I have to take the oil filter off to get at the CPS? really?
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Old 02-09-2010, 02:48 PM   #14
mack89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slickware View Post
Well I had the fan off this weekend (32mm crescent) so that shouldn't be too bad to take off again. Plus the wrench has a 36mm on the other end (Bavauto fan clutch removal kit). I have to take the oil filter off to get at the CPS? really?
removing oil filter housing, (actualy just a filter cap along with filter) gives you enough space to work..try 32mm wrench on vanos solenoid. that's where you need to use that wrench
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Old 02-09-2010, 02:49 PM   #15
slickware
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Should I replace vanos solenoid too?
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Old 02-09-2010, 02:51 PM   #16
mack89
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Should I replace vanos solenoid too?
nah that wont be necessary.
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Old 02-09-2010, 02:54 PM   #17
slickware
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Good, that ****'s expensive.
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Old 02-09-2010, 03:15 PM   #18
mack89
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Good, that ****'s expensive.
lol yeah u might wanna find used one if you're gonna replace it...or entire vanos. dont go there
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Old 02-09-2010, 04:31 PM   #19
slickware
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Hopefully the vanos seals I replaced will be good enough.
If that whole vanos needs replacement, I'll be dumping this POS and going back to Honda
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Old 02-09-2010, 04:41 PM   #20
vPanya
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HOW MAny miles do u have on ur car?

i've had stalling problems b4 my car just died completely. its has always been well maintained, i changed teh pump, fuel filter, intake/exhaust cam senosr and even crank sensor........ the problem was me not having enough fuel in the car... i ride with around a 1/4 tank, caused misfires and stalls.. towed it to shop, they filled it with gas and ran perfectly normal.
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