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Go Back   E46Fanatics > E46 BMW > E46 Convertible

E46 Convertible
The E46 vert forum. Talk about dropping your E46 top here.

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Old 07-25-2016, 04:57 PM   #1
LV3series
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Please help Convertible top

Hey, guys! I have some problems with my 2002 330Ci 117k convertible top. I have read pretty much every post about conv top issues, and Really didnt want to start another tread about it. I even bought an older laptop running windows xp and bought cable and software of eBay in order to run INPA and DIS/GT1...I really wanted to solve this myself....but I have come up short

I have the blinking red light
Windows goes down when pressing lowering button
Top unlocks and rises a couple of inches, but stops
Top can be locked again when pressing closing button

I have checked wiring harness above driver seat, cut and spliced wires, but no difference.

According to INPA:
2 errors in memory
68 Open load when locking
67 Open load when unlocking
(Inpa shows in German, I had to translate)

The CVM system status tells me the trunk lid is closed, so that can be ruled out
I have not been able to run DIS due to software problems...or perhaps due to my brain, or lack of a brain
The locking mechanisms up front and above our heads seams to be ok...I couldn't see any cracks when peaking in
The top has been lowered and closed approx 2000 times according to inpa

Really could need someone smarter than me to tell me how to solve those 2 codes

Last edited by LV3series; 07-25-2016 at 05:02 PM. Reason: Add info
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Old 07-25-2016, 05:25 PM   #2
All2kool
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Check the Hydraulic Fluid level. Do you hear any odd noises? Is this a recent car purchase or has it worked before?
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Old 07-25-2016, 06:07 PM   #3
Derekwh
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This may or may not work. Remove the center piece in the pack seat to get to the cover lock. Put the wrench in the socket, push the release button and turn the wrench clockwise to the next click. If it isn't in the right spot the top won't activate. It is worth a try.
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Old 07-25-2016, 06:35 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Derekwh View Post
This may or may not work. Remove the center piece in the pack seat to get to the cover lock. Put the wrench in the socket, push the release button and turn the wrench clockwise to the next click. If it isn't in the right spot the top won't activate. It is worth a try.
Excellent suggestion.
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Old 07-25-2016, 09:38 PM   #5
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Thank you for your input and advice, All2kool. It is a recent purcase. I was gone check for fluid, but the "bottle" is covered in foam like cover. I couldn't see how to take it apart. Does it need to be ripped apart?

I believe the fluid should be checked with the top down, right?

Derekwh...thank you for your suggestion, but unfortunately it didn't work...o'boy if it could only have been something stupid silly easy like that

When I push the closing button and hold it in after being closed, I can hear 'repeated clicking sound" from the back/ where the hydraulic pump is, and then ends in this really strange noise....I can only try to describe it like a voice saying "boink"...similar to a water drop.
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Old 07-25-2016, 11:30 PM   #6
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Have you electrically tested the wires from the CVM connector?
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Old 07-26-2016, 01:12 AM   #7
LV3series
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All2kool...you were right in checking the fluid level. It was overfilled. The strange sound I talked about was due to overpressure...I just hope I didnt blow the hydraulic seals. To people reading this, when checking fluid level, the top has to be DOWN/ in the boot.
The fill/drain plug is the biggest of the two Allen bolts/ the one in the middle. There was no way to get a tube/syring in there in order to drain...I had to unscrew a 13mm nut top left corner that holds the pump in place...and then poor it out. Luckily this time I was smart enought to pour the fluid into a clean bottle, because I had to top it up in order to get it to "bullseye". Remember to put the pump back in its original position before topping up.
BUT this didn't solve it/ made no difference.

Hey, Taylor192....I have yet to electrically test the wires....I know I know, you can scorn me if you want. I probably deserve it. I have read pretty much every post you have written about the convertible top...which is quite a lot...and THANK you for that But in my defense...I was hoping someone would be able to explain the two INPA error codes. Open load when locking...could probably mean open circuit when locking. I admit my electrical diagnostic skills are belowe par...like most people on this forum it seams. I do have a 7 function digital multimeter, but I do not know how to check the CVM wires electrically

I am willing to learn, but I don't expect you to hold my hand through the process. But if you are willing to help, and it works...I will make sure to send you some "PayPal beer money"

From my understanding the CVM is not activating the hydraulic pump and switches the tension bow solenoid to raise the tension bow. I just don't understand why.

Last edited by LV3series; 07-26-2016 at 06:21 AM. Reason: Add info
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Old 07-26-2016, 09:37 AM   #8
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Sounds like the PO didn't know what was wrong either and then overfilled the fluid. It is not uncommon for a CVM to be the culprit. There was another poster here that swapped his with a $50 unit he found on EBay and his top began working again. Just putting it out there - not saying that will be your solution.
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Old 07-26-2016, 02:37 PM   #9
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Hi, All2kool...I read that post. I will probably try to pick up a CVM. I will gladly trow $50 at it....the only reason I havnt done it yet, is because INPA has not displayed a hardware error....i strongly believe those 2 errors point towards an open circuit when opening and closing which should be those 2 hall sensors up by the top left windscreen under the cover...I feel I'm close to solving this, yet so far away....
I am surprised that nobody knows the INPA error codes:
68 open circuit when closing
67 open circuit when unlocking

Has anyone used a Power Probe ETC2000 short and open finder?
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Old 07-26-2016, 02:53 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LV3series View Post
Hi, All2kool...I read that post. I will probably try to pick up a CVM. I will gladly trow $50 at it....the only reason I havnt done it yet, is because INPA has not displayed a hardware error....i strongly believe those 2 errors point towards an open circuit when opening and closing which should be those 2 hall sensors up by the top left windscreen under the cover...I feel I'm close to solving this, yet so far away....
I am surprised that nobody knows the INPA error codes:
68 open circuit when closing
67 open circuit when unlocking

Has anyone used a Power Probe ETC2000 short and open finder?
$40 for a working CVM is a steal when you consider the dealer will get $1400 for new one.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/BMW-CONVERTI...rue&rmvSB=true

Last edited by All2kool; 07-26-2016 at 02:53 PM.
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Old 07-26-2016, 06:19 PM   #11
LV3series
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All2kool...thanks for the CVM eBay link, but that CVM doesn't match mine/my car.

I have studied up on how to use a multimeter to check for continuity. I disconnected the neg battery terminal...I do believe that is the right thing to do, but if I'm wrong, someone please chime in.

For the record, my multimeter is a cheap one that u can get from Harbor Freights....probably not very accurate.

I set the dial to Ohm 200
Display shows I when turning on
I get a 00.6 reading when touching the probes together

Pairs I tested:
18 & 9 : 13.3
17 & 8 : 13.3
16 & 17 : 13.1-13.3
14 & 13 : I (nothing)

Triplets
10-11-12 : I (nothing)
1-2-3 : I (nothing)

From my understanding, the pairs with nothing are good. Time to go wire hunting again. I asked before, but will ask again....has anyone used a Power Prob ETC2000 to locate the open circuit? that tool could be invaluable to trace a broken wire...

Last edited by LV3series; 07-26-2016 at 06:31 PM.
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Old 07-26-2016, 06:44 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LV3series View Post
All2kool...thanks for the CVM eBay link, but that CVM doesn't match mine/my car.
I recall seeing at RealOem.com that the E46 CVM is the same for all years.
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Old 07-27-2016, 06:31 AM   #13
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All2kool...I will take your word for it. You seam to know more than me about these cars. I still don't think the CVM is the problem, but I do appreciate your effort

I found 4 wires that were cracked at the lower bend ( left of rear driver side passenger seat)

I cut and spliced/ soldered the 4 damaged wires, but nothing has changed....except from picking up another INPA error code 64: Unlock, H-Bridge motor current too high, short circuit.

Does anyone know what this error code is referring too?

Also, when I'm holding down the open top button after the top has separated from the frame, and keep pushing the button, I can hear the motor above the windscreen "sliding" back and forth...it leads me to think the Hall sensor might be defective. Any feedback is always appreciated.

Last edited by LV3series; 07-27-2016 at 06:54 AM.
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Old 07-27-2016, 09:04 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LV3series View Post
All2kool...I will take your word for it. You seam to know more than me about these cars. I still don't think the CVM is the problem, but I do appreciate your effort

I found 4 wires that were cracked at the lower bend ( left of rear driver side passenger seat)

I cut and spliced/ soldered the 4 damaged wires, but nothing has changed....except from picking up another INPA error code 64: Unlock, H-Bridge motor current too high, short circuit.

Does anyone know what this error code is referring too?

Also, when I'm holding down the open top button after the top has separated from the frame, and keep pushing the button, I can hear the motor above the windscreen "sliding" back and forth...it leads me to think the Hall sensor might be defective. Any feedback is always appreciated.
Since you repaired damaged wires check them again for continuity. Nothing means it is a open circuit and that is bad. You should read continuity thru each hall sensor, if not you have a broken wire or bad hall sensor (it is usually a wiring problem).
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Old 07-27-2016, 04:19 PM   #15
LV3series
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Thank, m_peterson6, for clearing that up.

I retested, but this time I managed to remove the white cover off the white CVM plug, in order to make probing easier/more accurate. I also set the Ohm dial to 2000 instead of 200

When touching the probes I now get 001

18 - 9 : 014
17 - 8 : 013
16 - 7 : 014
14 - 13 : I
4 - 5 : I

10 - 11 : 426
11 - 12 : 062
1 - 2 : 452
2 - 3 : 062

I also tested
14 - 5 : I (cowl unlock sensor?)
13 - 4 : I ( cowl lock sensor?)
12 - 3 : I
11 - 2 : I
10 - 1 : I

Would anyone know what these wires are for?
I have cut and spliced wires at the bend above the driver seat, and also the lower bend to the left of the rear passenger seat...these should be the most comon places for wires to brake. Is there any other places I should look?

Last edited by LV3series; 07-27-2016 at 06:12 PM.
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Old 07-28-2016, 06:53 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LV3series View Post
Thank, m_peterson6, for clearing that up.

I retested, but this time I managed to remove the white cover off the white CVM plug, in order to make probing easier/more accurate. I also set the Ohm dial to 2000 instead of 200

When touching the probes I now get 001

18 - 9 : 014
17 - 8 : 013
16 - 7 : 014
14 - 13 : I
4 - 5 : I

10 - 11 : 426
11 - 12 : 062
1 - 2 : 452
2 - 3 : 062

I also tested
14 - 5 : I (cowl unlock sensor?)
13 - 4 : I ( cowl lock sensor?)
12 - 3 : I
11 - 2 : I
10 - 1 : I

Would anyone know what these wires are for?
I have cut and spliced wires at the bend above the driver seat, and also the lower bend to the left of the rear passenger seat...these should be the most comon places for wires to brake. Is there any other places I should look?
open your spice at the rear passenger door and check continuity fron the CVM connector to the splice, if it is good open the splice above the door and check from CVM to that spilice, if it is good check from CVM to Hall switch......I think you will find a break in the wire. If the wire checks out see if there is continuity in the Hall switch
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Old 07-28-2016, 07:37 AM   #17
LV3series
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M_peterson6...that is a very good suggestion...when I found the cracked wires I was so sure I had found the problem after reading so many other post were the wires were the culprit...I just started to cut and solder in new sections of wires, and double shrink tubes covering the soldered sections...I totally forgot to measure from the breaks/ cracks back to the CVM in order to rule out any other breaks in between....I really hate the thought of having to redo it, but maybe I have to....

The thing that bothers me tho, is the fact that none of my wires were actually broken...just the insulation was cracked. I have read that with the cracked wire insulation, it can still throw an open circuit, but intermittently....

I am also starting to think that my battery is dying...It is 7 years old and the PO told me the car would not start when sitting too long without being used. I took the battery to autozone and had them slow charge the battery, and they told me it was good. But 2 days later my wife's cars battery acted up, and I took her battery to autozone as well...they charged it and told me it was good, but the car wouldn't start. I took it to batteriesplus and they told me it was bad. Bought a new battery from them on the spot and installed it...her car started right up. Lesson learned...autozone doesn't check the batteries load.

I am starting to think that a lot of the non working convertible tops are actually due to bad batteries....giving too low voltage to the hall sensors, causing an error to be stored and the ball just starts rolling from there....just a theory, and probably wrong, but I figured I would trow it out there....I have INPA error code 112: undervoltage at terminal 30.

I am pretty worn out/ frustrated...extremely hot in Vegas right now...thinking about calling it quits and have another manual convertible top Beemer.

Last edited by LV3series; 07-28-2016 at 07:40 AM.
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Old 07-29-2016, 06:48 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by LV3series View Post
M_peterson6...that is a very good suggestion...when I found the cracked wires I was so sure I had found the problem after reading so many other post were the wires were the culprit...I just started to cut and solder in new sections of wires, and double shrink tubes covering the soldered sections...I totally forgot to measure from the breaks/ cracks back to the CVM in order to rule out any other breaks in between....I really hate the thought of having to redo it, but maybe I have to....

The thing that bothers me tho, is the fact that none of my wires were actually broken...just the insulation was cracked. I have read that with the cracked wire insulation, it can still throw an open circuit, but intermittently....

I am also starting to think that my battery is dying...It is 7 years old and the PO told me the car would not start when sitting too long without being used. I took the battery to autozone and had them slow charge the battery, and they told me it was good. But 2 days later my wife's cars battery acted up, and I took her battery to autozone as well...they charged it and told me it was good, but the car wouldn't start. I took it to batteriesplus and they told me it was bad. Bought a new battery from them on the spot and installed it...her car started right up. Lesson learned...autozone doesn't check the batteries load.

I am starting to think that a lot of the non working convertible tops are actually due to bad batteries....giving too low voltage to the hall sensors, causing an error to be stored and the ball just starts rolling from there....just a theory, and probably wrong, but I figured I would trow it out there....I have INPA error code 112: undervoltage at terminal 30.

I am pretty worn out/ frustrated...extremely hot in Vegas right now...thinking about calling it quits and have another manual convertible top Beemer.
your battery may be bad and causing some issues but it is not going to fix the continuity issue...you have broken wires or bad sensors. since you have it all shrink wrapped I would check continuity from the Hall sensor to the CVM plug on the 4 wires in question first..then you will know which ones need to be opened up to narrow down the problem. I say this on the assumption that only 2 of the 4 are actually bad. At this point a new harness but be something to look at just for peace of mind
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Old 07-30-2016, 08:46 AM   #19
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I followed your suggestion and cut up the the wires at the "main" elbow above driver seat, again...the brown/red and brown/yellow wires to the hall sensors...no continuity....which indicates they are faulty.

Here is my problem...I have the 2002 330Ci convertible, a 2000 323Ci convertible (my daily for the last 2 years, gave up on fixing the top long ago) a complete 2004 Ci convertible top and a set of locking mechanism pulled from a parts car...this gives me 4 sets of hall sensors...and non of them have continuity!!!
My understanding is that these hall sensors are very simple in design and therefor pretty reliable....yet all 4 sets are faulty???
Either I have really bad luck or perhaps my multimeter is under par

I do apologize for "whining" in an earlier post, but I have been trying to fix both my cars vert tops at the same time=double amount of work in extreme heat and being sleep deprieved...both cars will lower the windows, and open a couple of inches...then come to a stop, but can be locked down again. The only difference is the 323Ci doesn't have the blinking light after locking it back down...I think that could be due to the s142 hall sensor (cowl locked) is working, but the s145 hall sensor is faulty.

I have ruled out a faulty CVM...INPA shows them good/ !

As I said, I do have a set of hall sensors from the parts car on the kitchen table that I've been testing for continuity...and from my understanding they are magnetically driven. Will a regular continuity test actually work on them?
When they do go bad, what is causing it?
Is there a way to fix them? I slightly recall someone on this forum who fixed them by adjusting the diodes?...or something like that...I can't recall...read too many posts...
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Old 08-01-2016, 10:31 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by LV3series View Post
I have cut and spliced wires at the bend above the driver seat, and also the lower bend to the left of the rear passenger seat...these should be the most comon places for wires to brake. Is there any other places I should look?
I'm tracing down a weird top problem as well, I've yet to look at the lower bend you speak of. Thanks for the idea
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