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Great Plains & Rocky Mountains
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Old 10-06-2011, 04:06 PM   #12221
Andy2108
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Somone needs to hurry up and mass produce a S54 swapped 986 chassis
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Old 10-06-2011, 04:30 PM   #12222
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i have not....and i do acknowledge the M3 is different than my miata, but at the end of the day they're both just tools for speed and the goal of keeping the tire in contact with the pavement is the same.

i don't doubt that somebody has bolted on better shocks and gone 5s/lap faster, but i doubt the shocks are what did it.

at least within the miata SCCA world, the ultimate lap time achieveable between off-the-shelf Bilstein Sport shocks that were available on the R-package cars, and those same bilstein's revalved and shortened for higher (race) spring rates is negligible......tested by drivers that can click off 10 or so laps within a half second of each other. the biggest difference i've noticed going from the basic bilstein shocks to the koni 8041 race shocks is the ease in which that speed is achieveable, and improved tire performance throughout the race. it also is easier to control when getting aggressive over big curbs like they have at road atlanta.

i suspect what is happening is that when people bolt on better shocks the car does FEEL better and inspires more driver confidence to go faster. that is where the speed comes from, the driver. not so much the parts themselves. heck i've been in endurance racing situations where we blew a shaft seal and totally lost a rear shock. so as not to lose time in the pits swapping it out we just kept going. the car was a bit of a handful to drive, but our laptimes were still there.

just some food for thought.

PS - there's obviously some goofy stuff going on with the BMW suspensions, those look like spring rates for a FWD car to me! not that it's really relevant, but i'm on 900lb fr 450lb rears for the miata.
The rear suspension on the M3 isn't a coilover system, that's why higher spring rates are needed in the rear.
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Old 10-06-2011, 04:44 PM   #12223
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Originally Posted by tnord View Post
i have not....and i do acknowledge the M3 is different than my miata, but at the end of the day they're both just tools for speed and the goal of keeping the tire in contact with the pavement is the same.

i don't doubt that somebody has bolted on better shocks and gone 5s/lap faster, but i doubt the shocks are what did it.

at least within the miata SCCA world, the ultimate lap time achieveable between off-the-shelf Bilstein Sport shocks that were available on the R-package cars, and those same bilstein's revalved and shortened for higher (race) spring rates is negligible......tested by drivers that can click off 10 or so laps within a half second of each other. the biggest difference i've noticed going from the basic bilstein shocks to the koni 8041 race shocks is the ease in which that speed is achieveable, and improved tire performance throughout the race. it also is easier to control when getting aggressive over big curbs like they have at road atlanta.

i suspect what is happening is that when people bolt on better shocks the car does FEEL better and inspires more driver confidence to go faster. that is where the speed comes from, the driver. not so much the parts themselves. heck i've been in endurance racing situations where we blew a shaft seal and totally lost a rear shock. so as not to lose time in the pits swapping it out we just kept going. the car was a bit of a handful to drive, but our laptimes were still there.

just some food for thought.

PS - there's obviously some goofy stuff going on with the BMW suspensions, those look like spring rates for a FWD car to me! not that it's really relevant, but i'm on 900lb fr 450lb rears for the miata.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ///Mspired View Post
The rear suspension on the M3 isn't a coilover system, that's why higher spring rates are needed in the rear.
This ^^^ The spings on the e46 M3 are inboard from the damper thus the higher spring rates in the rear. For a full coilover system, front and year, 900/450 like you mentioned is very very common.

I don't disagree with you on the driver making the big differnce but I'm not talkin about guys with little race experience (like myself), I'm talking about guys with NASA, BMW CR, and Grand AM experience/championships.

Even if it is a confidence inspiring thing like you mentioned I would take anything that could potentially give me 3+ seconds.
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Old 10-06-2011, 04:46 PM   #12224
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looks i still need more spring too.

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Old 10-06-2011, 04:50 PM   #12225
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with all due respect, i put a lot more weight on the findings of the guys at the front of the SCCA Spec Miata / ITA field, than the guys from the series you mentioned. the high levels of competitiveness necessitates development and understanding.

unless it's James Clay, his opinion carries some heft.
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Old 10-06-2011, 04:51 PM   #12226
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Originally Posted by ///Mspired View Post
The rear suspension on the M3 isn't a coilover system, that's why higher spring rates are needed in the rear.
I dont think its quite that simple.

Miata has independent double wishbone suspension front and rear.



M3 has Independent front strut suspension and Independent rear multi-link suspension.




Here is the suspension diagram for the rear suspension of a miata



I've got 2 guesses.

Maybe you were right, true coils so therefore lower springrates needed, but I've got another idea that might just negate that fact.

Compared to an M3, the spings are much closer to the wheels in a miata. The M3's springs (on a non-true coil setup) are wayy back in there, where the leverage is different. I think spring placement might have alot to do with it.
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Old 10-06-2011, 04:55 PM   #12227
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it all has to do with wheel rates/motion.

if the springs on the M3 are much farther inboard of the wheel, the control arms or "links" in this case act like a lever. i don't know what the ratio is, but to make it simple an inch of travel at the pickup point on the subframe might equal 2'' of travel at the wheel. so the spring would have a little more heft to control that motion.

i'm sure i'm getting this wrong, but if the miata "wheel ratio" was 1:1, whereas the BMW was 1:2, a 900lb spring on the BMW might be like the 450lb spring on the miata.

....just speculating here though.
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Old 10-06-2011, 05:00 PM   #12228
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This ^^^ The spings on the e46 M3 are inboard from the damper thus the higher spring rates in the rear. For a full coilover system, front and year, 900/450 like you mentioned is very very common.

I don't disagree with you on the driver making the big differnce but I'm not talkin about guys with little race experience (like myself), I'm talking about guys with NASA, BMW CR, and Grand AM experience/championships.

Even if it is a confidence inspiring thing like you mentioned I would take anything that could potentially give me 3+ seconds.
Looks like this already got said while I was trying to find fancy diagrams
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Old 10-07-2011, 10:13 AM   #12229
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Finally met some skip skaps in chicago. I was starting to doubt myself at the two week mark. Got a job interview today and am loving school. Feel like I'm adjusted after 2 weeks!
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Old 10-07-2011, 10:59 AM   #12230
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Finally met some skip skaps in chicago. I was starting to doubt myself at the two week mark. Got a job interview today and am loving school. Feel like I'm adjusted after 2 weeks!
Good to hear, keep you nose in those books.
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Old 10-07-2011, 11:52 AM   #12231
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Good to hear, keep you nose in those books.
Spent an hour last night studying engines after a 6 hour class... Plus already reading stuff we haven't gone over. Taking care of business.
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Old 10-07-2011, 12:25 PM   #12232
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I wish I could actually lean about engines.... and not john quincy adams


In due time...
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Old 10-07-2011, 05:25 PM   #12233
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Just saw a round tail BMW 2002. Makes me want one quite bad.
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Old 10-07-2011, 05:26 PM   #12234
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Had an s14 under the hood.
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Old 10-07-2011, 05:52 PM   #12235
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noice. there are a few I've seen running around various towns
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Old 10-07-2011, 07:01 PM   #12236
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He had SSR reverse mesh wheels, it was inca orange, I wish I would've gotten a pic, the car was perfect. The s14 sounds awesome, he had cf velocity stacks, the intake sound was so loud. I wish I had got some pics of it. The owner was in Topeka for some scca thing.
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Old 10-07-2011, 07:12 PM   #12237
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Sounded like this
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Old 10-08-2011, 02:53 AM   #12238
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Anyone need a valve adjustment?
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Old 10-08-2011, 11:35 AM   #12239
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Anyone need a valve adjustment?
u do
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Old 10-08-2011, 02:39 PM   #12240
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Anyone need a valve adjustment?
Im gonna do one this winter along with checking the cam gear hub and bolts. I may replace the rod bearings as well. I never thought is say this but I'm gonna need your help.

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u do
Troof.
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