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Great Plains & Rocky Mountains
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Old 01-27-2012, 09:01 AM   #13441
Andy2108
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school sucks
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Old 01-27-2012, 11:29 AM   #13442
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^ agreed

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Old 01-27-2012, 04:19 PM   #13443
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http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=899484

The "///M badge" is all about money these days, chaps. It's sad to say, but I think the second generation of the M division is upon us. It was kicked off with the E70 X5M and and E71 X6M... the AWD, auto only, SUV with no purpose. M cars are now about providing quality performance and luxury to those people with deep pockets who want to show off a bit. Its no longer about taking a civilian chassis, handing it over to the M division, and letting them put in a mad engine and racing inspired suspension, resulting in a few select cars that were just comfy enough to sell to a select few. Its sad to see BMW walk away from specialized M cars, but understandable: they're a business, in it to make a profit. Right now, efficiency is big, fuel is expensive, and there is plenty of competition.

That said, the new cars are pretty awesome. They don't really deserve the M badge, but they deserve something. The new M550d X-drive has a 3.0 liter, triple turbocharged diesel that makes 381 hp and 546 lb-ft while still getting an average of 38mpg us (german rating).

I think this means the M5 will have x-drive, there will be no M5d, and hopefully the M5 will be a little more performance oriented than it would be without the M550d.
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Old 01-27-2012, 04:24 PM   #13444
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The same has happened to Ford's SVT division.

It used to be about taking a "normal" chassis and adding strictly performance to it. Now its all about slathering the Shelby name all over it and giving it a 20k markup with marginal performance improvements.
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Old 01-27-2012, 04:35 PM   #13445
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Although similar, I think BMW is still keeping some integrity in the performance respect. They seem to have really tried to make it close to the M car, and at a price point starting at about $85k, I sure hope it shares some with the M car. If the price difference is too severe between the M550d and the M5, nobody will buy the M5.

I'm more disappointed that they're even making the M550d. Its nearly like they've given up on pushing the envelope for whats possible for a "sports car." Yeah, the M5 faster than the old one, but by adding on the M550d to the lineup, they're trying to fill another gap. And what they're actually doing at the same time is pushing the M5 even farther out of people's reach (M5 is going to be a $100,000+ car, easily with options). Its no longer about absolute performance (the torque curve on a S54 sucks anywhere but the road course) but more about performance that will sell.

Sometimes I too easily forget that BMW is a luxury car brand...

Last edited by Andy2108; 01-27-2012 at 04:37 PM.
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Old 01-27-2012, 05:30 PM   #13446
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Originally Posted by Andy2108 View Post
http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=899484

The "///M badge" is all about money these days, chaps. It's sad to say, but I think the second generation of the M division is upon us. It was kicked off with the E70 X5M and and E71 X6M... the AWD, auto only, SUV with no purpose. M cars are now about providing quality performance and luxury to those people with deep pockets who want to show off a bit. Its no longer about taking a civilian chassis, handing it over to the M division, and letting them put in a mad engine and racing inspired suspension, resulting in a few select cars that were just comfy enough to sell to a select few. Its sad to see BMW walk away from specialized M cars, but understandable: they're a business, in it to make a profit. Right now, efficiency is big, fuel is expensive, and there is plenty of competition.

That said, the new cars are pretty awesome. They don't really deserve the M badge, but they deserve something. The new M550d X-drive has a 3.0 liter, triple turbocharged diesel that makes 381 hp and 546 lb-ft while still getting an average of 38mpg us (german rating).

I think this means the M5 will have x-drive, there will be no M5d, and hopefully the M5 will be a little more performance oriented than it would be without the M550d.
I coukdnt agree more, the m symbol is just for status these days. It's really kind of sad. It's more like the amg and Audi s series now more than the m of old. They are getting back in dtm.

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The same has happened to Ford's SVT division.

It used to be about taking a "normal" chassis and adding strictly performance to it. Now its all about slathering the Shelby name all over it and giving it a 20k markup with marginal performance improvements.
Yeah but atleast they are producinf cars specifically for the tack like the leguna seca inspired boss 302 (or 5.0, I cant remember which). I would compare that car more to the m series then a svt or anything else. A car made specifically for performance and by performance BMW mean the road coarse not the drag strip.

I miss the days when there was just an m3 and m5, the good old days. Who the **** needs a m6, x5m, or x6m. I kinda like the 1m, it makes a bit of sense.

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Old 01-27-2012, 05:53 PM   #13447
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I think the 1M's price point and chassis is what makes it a much more favorable car for... us. It started life as Europe's "economy" BMW, and came over here recently. [the 1 series] has been too expensive to really take off in a big way though. It feels like a more performance based sports car because it doesn't have a lot of the luxury nonsense, the extra doors, the big boot, or the large size in general. BMW took an economical car, added some M3 suspension, brakes, and fenders and then took the designs away from the luxury department before it was too late.

Where I find fault with it is its cuteness and its engine. It will forever be too "cute" of a car for me. They've done an okay job at improving it with the bumpers, but the big headlights and the proportions are what get me. I also view the car as kinda strange, from a financial standpoint. They only made a few of them, and because they obviously weren't going to make any money off them, they didn't spend much money in development. They turned up the turbos on the N54 from a 135i and use the exact same transmissions. They could have sold a ton of them, but for whatever reason, they decided not to.

From a performance standpoint, I think its pretty good. Big brakes, proper suspension, little car. It works. DCT is pretty cool, and the torque curve is awesome. But the HP curve is just not there like it is in a E46 or E90 M3.

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Old 01-27-2012, 06:21 PM   #13448
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Originally Posted by Andy2108 View Post
I think the 1M's price point and chassis is what makes it a much more favorable car for... us. It started life as Europe's "economy" BMW, and came over here recently. [the 1 series] has been too expensive to really take off in a big way though. It feels like a more performance based sports car because it doesn't have a lot of the luxury nonsense, the extra doors, the big boot, or the large size in general. BMW took an economical car, added some M3 suspension, brakes, and fenders and then took the designs away from the luxury department before it was too late.

Where I find fault with it is its cuteness and its engine. It will forever be too "cute" of a car for me. They've done an okay job at improving it with the bumpers, but the big headlights and the proportions are what get me. I also view the car as kinda strange, from a financial standpoint. They only made a few of them, and because they obviously weren't going to make any money off them, they didn't spend much money in development. They turned up the turbos on the N54 from a 135i and use the exact same transmissions. They could have sold a ton of them, but for whatever reason, they decided not to.

From a performance standpoint, I think its pretty good. Big brakes, proper suspension, little car. It works. DCT is pretty cool, and the torque curve is awesome. But the HP curve is just not there like it is in a E46 or E90 M3.
You're in high school and have yet to pay for a car so what financial standpoint are you referring to. Just sayin. I do agree with you though.
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Old 01-27-2012, 06:23 PM   #13449
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Real men, get it done without the "M" badge!
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Old 01-27-2012, 06:30 PM   #13450
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You're in high school and have yet to pay for a car so what financial standpoint are you referring to. Just sayin. I do agree with you though.
Financial standpoint relative to the market and the BMW lineup, but mainly why BMW spent far less than the normal on development. Usually BMW will spend tons on a few engines or a few chassis. This time they took all existing parts, put them together, re branded them, marked them up a bit, and then sold only a few of the cars. It doesn't seem like a full on M car, and I guess thats part of the reason why its not an "M1." It just seems kinda weird to me.

Not a very strong point of my argument.

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Old 01-27-2012, 06:37 PM   #13451
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Real men, get it done without the "M" badge!
I'm talking about new cars though. Modded cars are a whole other story

insert PEI330Ci build thread here
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Old 01-27-2012, 06:44 PM   #13452
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I'm talking about new cars though. Modded cars are a whole other story

insert PEI330Ci build thread here
E46 was the last true hero... as was the S85 for the M5. I'd seriously give anything and everything just to have a car with an S85 in it. Headers/Straight pipes E36 M3 Sedan S85.. my dream car!
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Old 01-27-2012, 06:54 PM   #13453
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I'm not sure what I like better. cross-plane V8 or flat-plane v10. Probably V8 for street honestly. Whatever it is, it has to have headers and individual throttle bodies (a ton of intake noise), and probably straight pipes.
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Old 01-27-2012, 07:21 PM   #13454
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I'm not sure what I like better. cross-plane V8 or flat-plane v10. Probably V8 for street honestly. Whatever it is, it has to have headers and individual throttle bodies (a ton of intake noise), and probably straight pipes.
no v8 will ever do that, it's all induction no fancy exhaust tuning in dis bish!

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Old 01-27-2012, 07:59 PM   #13455
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Sure, the 1M is a parts-bin-engineered sports car with low overhead, but clearly it worked. Inline six at the front, fat tires at the back, small car in between. I still can't figure out why they aren't making more of them, they would fly out the door. It is more of a marketing exercise than anything else, and they aren't making much or any profit on each individual unit with the M3 suspension, etc. It is more of to say to the enthusiasts, hey the M division has still got it. "Sure we've made some sell-out baby carrier SUV abortions, but we can still make a proper enthusiasts car."
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Old 01-27-2012, 08:23 PM   #13456
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ohai Carl

I agree. Its like they were trying to prove something. maybe they saw how good the 135 was and they wanted to take it just that much further...

I wonder if there will be a second gen 1M.

I bet they're going to have to bring the new M cars to NA. The current diesels have been selling very well here. In the rest of the world, about half (44%) of all bmw's are diesel.
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Old 01-27-2012, 08:49 PM   #13457
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Obviously, I do dislike the dilution of M, but to play devil's advocate, Jeremy Clarkson really liked the M550d in his annual end-of-the-year-i-want-more-money special. Also, its not too far-off from what Audi does with A4/S4/RS4. Maybe M sees that they can make money (all about the money) by having a sort-of intermediate step. And if they make more money, maybe they can finance more projects like the 1M. Also, I don't believe it is without precedent, as I think they have slapped the M badge on some less-than-M cars in the way back when.

Without doubt, though, the M550d (5 series) is the only one I am ok with. The M60d (X6) and M50d (X5) deserve to be killed with fire.

That said, diesel? Gross. You can keep your 5k redlines across the pond, I don't want em.

Honestly, I think that someday in the not too distant future the Corvette and Viper will be the only sports cars worth owning. God knows they won't use anything with fewer than 8 cylinders and 8 spark plugs in the corvette, for fear of a collective baby boomer uprising in Florida. And methinks they will stick with the stick-shift too, because they are cheap. Once every European automaker we used to love has gone to five turbo diesel crap and clunky automated manuals and 16 gears, I'm sure the Vette won't have changed a damn thing. For once, GM's resistance to change and pandering to the oldsters will pay off for us enthusiasts.

For the religious among us, pray that BMW doesn't **** up the next M3.
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Old 01-27-2012, 08:52 PM   #13458
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no v8 will ever do that, it's all induction no fancy exhaust tuning in dis bish!
What you talkin bout Willis?

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Old 01-27-2012, 09:17 PM   #13459
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Obviously, I do dislike the dilution of M, but to play devil's advocate, Jeremy Clarkson really liked the M550d in his annual end-of-the-year-i-want-more-money special. Also, its not too far-off from what Audi does with A4/S4/RS4. Maybe M sees that they can make money (all about the money) by having a sort-of intermediate step. And if they make more money, maybe they can finance more projects like the 1M. Also, I don't believe it is without precedent, as I think they have slapped the M badge on some less-than-M cars in the way back when.

Without doubt, though, the M550d (5 series) is the only one I am ok with. The M60d (X6) and M50d (X5) deserve to be killed with fire.

That said, diesel? Gross. You can keep your 5k redlines across the pond, I don't want em.

Honestly, I think that someday in the not too distant future the Corvette and Viper will be the only sports cars worth owning. God knows they won't use anything with fewer than 8 cylinders and 8 spark plugs in the corvette, for fear of a collective baby boomer uprising in Florida. And methinks they will stick with the stick-shift too, because they are cheap. Once every European automaker we used to love has gone to five turbo diesel crap and clunky automated manuals and 16 gears, I'm sure the Vette won't have changed a damn thing. For once, GM's resistance to change and pandering to the oldsters will pay off for us enthusiasts.

For the religious among us, pray that BMW doesn't **** up the next M3.
I don't think Clarkson had a 550, he had a 535d and he did love it. I imagine he's going to have to mention the new M550d in the future. New Top Gear on Sunday!

You'r right, it does seem like the A4/S4/RS4 split. Lately the S4's have been softened (even more). The next RS cars should be interesting.

M550d is cool with me, although its an abomination to the M badge. The X5/X6 are a waste of money.

Personally, I'm in favor of diesel. It has its purpose. Yeah, low redlines and top end power suck, but low end torque and fuel efficiency (what really matter in the city and for most people) are great. The new diesel stuff is very clean and smells less than normal cars. Never mind my cars (no emissions controls, lol). My mother has a X5d and it gets like 19mpg city and pulls to 60 in like 7 seconds.

Good point about the corvette and viper. It seems like they are staying true to their enthusiast specific cars, but BMW and others are still doing better at offering manuals in mainstream cars. The viper is being softened for 2012 with traction control and other nonsense. Too bad they want $100k+ for them.

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Old 01-27-2012, 10:11 PM   #13460
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What you talkin bout Willis?

Now I need to change my pants.
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