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Old 04-05-2010, 11:56 PM   #1
BreakfastBurrito
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ZF 5HP19 transmission pump bushing :(

the bushing on the pump fused to the torque converter. The parts started to wear out and caused a massive trans fluid leak which pretty much drenched the underside of my car and was causing it to smoke like Snoop Dogg at a High Times convention.

This is exactly what happened to my car, except for the grinding crunching noise. It just had a massive leak one day.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4726325
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4601246

I used Chance_Ps reverse drum replacement DIY to drop the tranny
http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthr...=750714&page=2

According to a post in one of those threads this is a common problem on these trannys. I searched around here and nobody has ever posted anything about that

Ill most likely be replacing the pump cover and the torque converter.


(and no, a manual swap is not an option for me)


Last edited by BreakfastBurrito; 04-06-2010 at 12:00 AM.
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Old 04-06-2010, 12:24 AM   #2
neil1138
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That sucks, but I don't know about it being a common problem. I've never heard of this happening on these cars
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Old 05-14-2010, 10:24 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Max_iDT View Post
the bushing on the pump fused to the torque converter. The parts started to wear out and caused a massive trans fluid leak which pretty much drenched the underside of my car and was causing it to smoke like Snoop Dogg at a High Times convention.

This is exactly what happened to my car, except for the grinding crunching noise. It just had a massive leak one day.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4726325
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4601246

I used Chance_Ps reverse drum replacement DIY to drop the tranny
http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthr...=750714&page=2

According to a post in one of those threads this is a common problem on these trannys. I searched around here and nobody has ever posted anything about that

Ill most likely be replacing the pump cover and the torque converter.


(and no, a manual swap is not an option for me)

The exact same thing happened to my 2000 323i Touring as well. It is in the shop today getting a new front pump and torque converter. Everything else looks new, but we are installing a new seal kit as well.
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Old 05-14-2010, 11:04 AM   #4
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Hi,

Looking at the repair manual, there were a lot of clearances that need to be exact and I really can't risk it breaking down again because of something I didn't right. I ended up getting the entire trans rebuilt by a shop. I figured might as well do the entire thing now that its out. It cost me a bit more but I have the comfort of knowing it's completley fresh. I took my trans to Steve Dose of Dose BMW in El Cajon. The shop is an authorized ZF rebuilder and distribution center. Cost me some money, but I'm happy.

www.dosebmw.com

If you're getting trans work done I suggest you get the Reverse Drum replaced while you're in there, I did. It's cheap insurance.
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Old 05-14-2010, 09:22 PM   #5
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Got the Touring back this afternoon. Everything is as it should be. Hopefully this is the end of it. Took a New (not reman) front pump, the full seal kit and the converter to cure it. Runs like Hell, and I noticed that the average fuel economy is up by a little over 2 MPG. Guess the old converter was not going into lockup.
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Old 06-04-2010, 12:21 PM   #6
ilovebeemers
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ZF 5HP19 Pump bushing failure.

I have removed and dismantled the transmission according to Chance's No Reverse fix. My 325i started shifting weird coming home from work. Check it out and it was leaking fluid from the bellhousing. Pulled P0741 (stuck converter). I don't have a manual and Chance's fix didn't include a rebuild of the pump assembly. If someone has a pdf of the ZF that would be awesome. Take a look at the pics, I can post more if needed. I dont' see metal pieces, the drums look fine ( i believe the 2005 325is didn't have the no reverse issue). I just want to make sure I R&R w/e should be done while I have apart like this. If someone could aid me in dismantling the pump correctly I will be forever in your debt!

Here is the part that needs to come off the pump


I just know that I can't let 10.060 parts come apart or there are a real ***** to get back together correctly.

Pic #1; What I have removed so far
.

Pic #2; The Drum looks fine.


Pic #3; The bushing will no longer go over the torque converter. Take a look, does the torque converter look like it needs to be replaced? I see scuffing but no removed metal


Pic #4; heres the beast I need help disassembling. I'm not afraid to I would rather just save myself some headaches if there is a specific way to disassemble while saving time


Pic #5; Before I diassembled the pump I used my finger to see if anything was loose. This collar seemed to move forward and back a little. I found this video on youtube by some Russian guy saying that it means it's bad. I took a real close look at it when it was all disassembled and it seems to be how it's suppose to be..

(here's the video)





I appreciate any help you guys can lend! A manual would be perfect!

Last edited by ilovebeemers; 06-04-2010 at 03:06 PM.
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Old 06-04-2010, 01:10 PM   #7
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I never took my pump apart, but you're right about part 10.060 being a ***** to get back together. It will actually be park 10.240 that will give you the most trouble upon re-assembly. If you look at my thread, theres a part where I had to rig up a device to compress the parts going back into the reverse drum, thats what you're going to have to do with that part.

Other than that the only advice I can give you is use some thread locker on those bolts when you put the pump back together. Just go to work and take that ***** apart. Keep your pieces organized and stacked on eachother if possible so you don't mix up where they go. There looks to be less parts to the pump than there were to the reverse drum so I really wouldn't be to concerned about taking it apart.

Good luck, let me me know how it goes.
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Old 06-04-2010, 03:05 PM   #8
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Thanks for the insight man! What about that piece I have arrowed out that was loose. Was yours loose? That video with the Russian guy fixing it acts like it shouldn't be loose. I disassembled it and it looks like it's suppose to just be sitting in there, not bolted or anything. I found no snap ring, nothing that could have been there holding it in.

I might just buy the whole pump assembly and call it a day. I'll let you know how it goes. If it's a 100 dollar difference ( which i think it is) I'll just buy it. But I'll definitely disassemble this one.

It has 122k on it should I just do the full rebuild?
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Old 06-04-2010, 04:11 PM   #9
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So I'm going to need to create a tool that can press a few hundred pounds of pressure on the assembly to lock those 'spined' rings in the [PURPLE BOXES]?



Cacrawfo from bimmerforums.com made this tool and he says it worked for compressing the drum when he made his reverse drum.



I get how the C assembly goes together [BROWN BOX]

I'm going to see if someone can press part 510 into 520 [RED BOX]

I remember reading that if rear pump assembly [BLUE BOX]
comes apart it will be very hard to put it together.

While I have it apart I think I'm going to order the overhaul kit. Other than the special compression tool will I need any other tools? I'm going to do a full seal kit as well.
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Old 06-04-2010, 05:01 PM   #10
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Yikes I don't think this will end well
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Old 06-04-2010, 05:22 PM   #11
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I'm surprised at how different ZF transmissions are from GM transmissions. When I took apart my A5S360R, I didn't need any such tools. There were just a bunch of snap rings that held everything together. When we put it back together for a second time, everything fit into place just fine. Obviously I never tested it but I'm sure it would have run for at least 10 feet before exploding
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Old 06-04-2010, 06:06 PM   #12
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Same thing happened to mine, but I just had mine rebuilt by a shop. good luck.

FYI, the shop told me to get a new converter. Maybe they're trying to make more $ off of me, but I think you're better off swapping it, theres probably a bunch of crap in there too and you can't get everything out of those.

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthr...511&highlight=
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Old 06-04-2010, 07:17 PM   #13
jbeurotech
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 325max View Post
Same thing happened to mine, but I just had mine rebuilt by a shop. good luck.

FYI, the shop told me to get a new converter. Maybe they're trying to make more $ off of me, but I think you're better off swapping it, theres probably a bunch of crap in there too and you can't get everything out of those.

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthr...511&highlight=
Always replace the converter when doing a tranny not to mention BMW has had issues with these converters and there are TSB's for them.
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Old 06-04-2010, 08:26 PM   #14
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THanks for the info on the updated converters. Was it the converter causing the pump bushing failure? Do you have updated part # for the converter?

I thought I lost my TIS DVD, just found it. Was going to have to buy another.

don't worry jbeurotech, i haven't diassembled anything yet. i will on go as far as I can go with the tools I have. I'm just going to spring for the $350.00 pump housing. I'm not going to mess with someone other than the manufacturer pressing in the new flange.

I will bring the complicated tasks to the professionals if needed. I have done many swaps over the years. Why should I pay some tech 100 hour to do something I can do in less than 3 hours without a lift? Diassembling the transmission took less than that. I've marked where everything meets up how it went with permanent ink. I've marked how far it goes into the assembly. I'm all good man. My rear drum doesn't look unscathed at 122k so I'm going to leave it. If you want to see the rest of it with details pics let me know but everything looks good. Not even one cracked tooth.

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Old 06-04-2010, 08:43 PM   #15
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There is no clean room DUST and debris is VERY BAD for a tranny. It may work for a while but unless you have a CLEAN room there is no way that will be a long term rebuild. We don't rebuild tranny here due to the fact you really need a special room to make sure no dust or debris makes it into the tranny. No to mention when replacing clutches you will need dial indicators and such to set the thrust bearing depth and may need shims to get it right.
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Old 06-04-2010, 08:51 PM   #16
ilovebeemers
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I'm not going to replace any clutches myself if that is the case. I put it all back together once I found the issue. I've already priced out the best rebuild. If I can't replace the converter and pump for a resonalbe price myself I'll just have it rebuilt.

Do you guys have like a bubble you do it in? Or just like a really clean room?
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Old 06-04-2010, 11:26 PM   #17
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hey,

maybe you can pickup a press on craigslist or something and then sell it after you're done. Just an idea.

As far as the rear drum, I read in some other thread that the last year to have failures was 01 or 02 on the 5hp19. Too lazy to search right now. When I had my trans rebuilt I told them to swap it out, it's an '03 but I figured it was cheap insurance.

That wiggle may be from some thrust or radial bearing, maybe something else you want to replace. Also inspect the guido err... guibo and trans mounts, see if they need to be replaced.

Oh yea I also did my rear main seal while I was in there. Maybe something else you want to do. It's pretty straight forward. I was told these bolts are torque to yield, meaning one time use.

Oh yea, I think Chance might of said this in his thread: There's an allignment pin where the starter goes. Grind a chamfer on it with a file.

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Old 06-04-2010, 11:35 PM   #18
ilovebeemers
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you sent it to be rebuilt? So you installed it after? Did it affect your warranty not having a shop do it?
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Old 06-04-2010, 11:41 PM   #19
BreakfastBurrito
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the price I paid included a 2 year warranty. That was with me, taking it out and putting it in.
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Old 06-05-2010, 06:10 AM   #20
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I just did a full rebuild on my ZF 325 transmission. It took a new pump and converter to stop the leaking. Do not try to use the old converter. There is a lot of wear on the snout (where the converter goes into the pump housing). I did a full seal kit and new clutch discs too. No problems for over a thousand miles now. By the way, since the transmission was purged of all fluid, I went with something other than the Esso 1147 fluid. I used Valvoline Mercon V fluid in mine. Shifts are smooth, and the tranny feels better than ever. The Valvoline Merc V is a semi-synthetic fluid as well.
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