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Old 04-06-2010, 03:45 PM   #1
Bimmerbaz
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oil pump faliure

Hi Guys,

As some of you might know i am involved with a targa car which we put a M54 3.0l into. We run a Link G4 ECU programmed to run all the vanos and manifold systems. We had a problem with the oil light coming on during a stage and then the inevitable growling noises followed.I pulled out the motor and stripped down to find the oil pump pulley not conected to the pump, now from reading alot more info (still not many running in motorsport in New Zealand) i found that this is common in motorsport engines. I have stripped down and located the no1 big end bearing not happy.All the rest of the motor appears to be ok . My question is ,we are going to replace the oil pump with a VAC pump and will balance the crank. we also found the oil squirters in the sump. Can any body help me to get some of the modified oil squirters and also recommend any other mods that would be worth doing while the enigine is apart.

Thanks for your help.

Bimmerbaz
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Old 04-06-2010, 03:57 PM   #2
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Billet Aluminum Oil Squirters: http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthr...=oil+squirters

I've been researching a pump upgrade and this is what I've found so far:

PEI330CI had a problem with the VAC pump: http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthr...t=vac+oil+pump

Vaio's pump is one solid option (post #2 in that thread)^

This dual pickup Bimmerworld oil pump looks awesome: http://store.bimmerworld.com/e46e36-...rade-p968.aspx

Here's some pump options from the UK: http://www.ca-automotive.co.uk/produ...faWQ9Nw==.html
EDIT: oops note post #4 below regarding this link^


You might as well do the front subframe reinforcement from TMS while you're at it. Not sure what else though.

EDIT: maybe an ATI super damper:
http://www.atiracing.com/products/da...mper_dinan.htm
http://www.atiracing.com/products/da...ting/index.htm
also search in the Driveline & Engine forum for more info
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Last edited by McSpeed; 04-14-2010 at 10:47 AM.
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Old 04-06-2010, 10:28 PM   #3
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Interesting that you found the oil squirters in the pickup, the same thing happened to me a few years back(I haven't read of too many others that have expired it first hand). I haven't dropped the pan since then, but I wouldn't be too surprised to find them broken off again(I replaced them with OEM ones). I'm still shocked my motor hasn't blown up yet, it's got ~110 track hours on it, IMO shifting at 6500rpm helps a ton with longevity.

I'd recommend going with the 4 bolt pump(that I can source) over the VAC one as it's shaft has been known to shear. In race cars financial terms, it's really pretty cheap.

-Greg
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Old 04-07-2010, 05:29 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by McSpeed View Post
Here's some pump options from the UK: http://www.ca-automotive.co.uk/produ...faWQ9Nw==.html
Everything in that link is from VAC Motorsports.
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Old 04-07-2010, 06:32 AM   #5
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Everything in that link is from VAC Motorsports.
Thanks - mystery solved!
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Old 04-08-2010, 06:29 PM   #6
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...we also found the oil squirters in the sump. Can any body help me to get some of the modified oil squirters and also recommend any other mods that would be worth doing while the enigine is apart.
Were you guys running a lightweight flywheel in this car? And if so, for very long?
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Old 04-08-2010, 07:39 PM   #7
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I'd recommend going with the 4 bolt pump(that I can source) over the VAC one as it's shaft has been known to shear.
Greg, what exactly is done to improve the shaft with the 4 bolt pump? I've seen pics of the 3 additional bolts through the sprocket but haven't seen specifics related to the shaft - although I do keep hearing that it's one of the better options.
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Old 04-08-2010, 10:41 PM   #8
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Greg, what exactly is done to improve the shaft with the 4 bolt pump? I've seen pics of the 3 additional bolts through the sprocket but haven't seen specifics related to the shaft - although I do keep hearing that it's one of the better options.
It's an entirely different shaft to facilitate the different attachment. As far as what exact material and/or heat treatments, etc, I'm not sure. In several years of pro and amateur level racing in several cars, not one has failed.

Quote:
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Were you guys running a lightweight flywheel in this car?
I was.

Last edited by vaio76109; 04-11-2010 at 09:37 PM.
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Old 04-11-2010, 04:07 AM   #9
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Yes we were running a lightened flywheel, do you think it may make a difference? We intend to balance crank and flywheel together.

Does anyone have a contact for the modified oil squirters as we would like to get some for this rebuild.

Cheers
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Old 04-11-2010, 09:25 PM   #10
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Do you guys know if the oil pump and oil squirtrr issues are limite to 3.0 motors? I Would imagine the increased vibrations due to the larger stroke contribute to at least the oil squirter issue.

I am starting to build my E46 and was planing to stick with the M54, but the research I've done so far does not look promising. I may just take my spare m52b28 that I know will do 230-240rwhp reliably and run that....or an s54...
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Old 04-12-2010, 05:44 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bimmerbaz View Post
Yes we were running a lightened flywheel, do you think it may make a difference? We intend to balance crank and flywheel together.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich V View Post
Do you guys know if the oil pump and oil squirtrr issues are limite to 3.0 motors? I Would imagine the increased vibrations due to the larger stroke contribute to at least the oil squirter issue.

I am starting to build my E46 and was planing to stick with the M54, but the research I've done so far does not look promising. I may just take my spare m52b28 that I know will do 230-240rwhp reliably and run that....or an s54...
I've asked the same question about the M54B30 and from what I've read: if you harden the oil pump, and keep the stock flywheel and redline, harmonics shouldn't be an issue - even on pure track cars raced for years. The only oil squirter failures I've heard of happened on cars with lightweight flywheels. Could be coincidence, but maybe the lightweight flywheels aren't balanced as well as they could be, or maybe the stock flywheel's weight/dual mass setup is a factor in dampening the harmonics.

Also I previously posted this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by McSpeed View Post
Maybe get a 330 with a production date of 9/2002 or later, after which the M54B30 got a new vibration damper part number and, at stock redlines, no news has been good news. This is armchair conjecture on my part - I haven't compared the vibration dampers - but there's a new part number and BMW themselves raised the stock redline on the 2003 ZHP, so that might mean something.
M54B25wise: Bimmerworld was seeing oil squirter failure on their 8k redline World Challenge M54B25's so they replaced the squirters with billet aluminum ones.

M52B28wise: Not sure about its track record.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bimmerbaz View Post
Does anyone have a contact for the modified oil squirters as we would like to get some for this rebuild.

Cheers
Try PMing PEI330Ci
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Old 04-12-2010, 07:10 AM   #12
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Interesting that you found the oil squirters in the pickup, the same thing happened to me a few years back(I haven't read of too many others that have expired it first hand). I haven't dropped the pan since then, but I wouldn't be too surprised to find them broken off again(I replaced them with OEM ones). I'm still shocked my motor hasn't blown up yet, it's got ~110 track hours on it, IMO shifting at 6500rpm helps a ton with longevity.

I'd recommend going with the 4 bolt pump(that I can source) over the VAC one as it's shaft has been known to shear. In race cars financial terms, it's really pretty cheap.

-Greg
The 4 bolt oil pump is very interesting to me. I've only seen one picture of a 3 bolt pump and that was from the TCK pump. How does that 4 bolt oil pump buying work? Do I have to send in my oil pump and have my car on a lift for a while or is this a core exchange? I assume your source does a overhaul of the oil pump to like new condition and operation then add on the 4 bolt oil pump shaft? What is this hardening of the oil pump that McSpeed is speaking about? Ideally, I'd like to get this oil system issue taken care of once and for all so I can go back on the track with the piece of mind that my engine won't end its life on the track.

As a side note of the oil squirters, Adam spoke something about the billet aluminum ones not having a check valve so it might not be good of cars that are dual purpose, DD and HPDE car? Someone elaborate on it?
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Old 04-12-2010, 07:24 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by HighBoostin330 View Post
The 4 bolt oil pump is very interesting to me. I've only seen one picture of a 3 bolt pump and that was from the TCK pump. How does that 4 bolt oil pump buying work? Do I have to send in my oil pump and have my car on a lift for a while or is this a core exchange? I assume your source does a overhaul of the oil pump to like new condition and operation then add on the 4 bolt oil pump shaft? What is this hardening of the oil pump that McSpeed is speaking about? Ideally, I'd like to get this oil system issue taken care of once and for all so I can go back on the track with the piece of mind that my engine won't end its life on the track.
3 or 4 bolts = same difference I think - just the number of bolts that attach the sprocket to the revised shaft. He sends you a new pump ready to install. By hardening I just mean toughening up in general but I believe the shaft is also heat treated (it was on the TC Kline one for sure)

According to mrshelley, there's a 117 second window from oil pump failure to catastrophic engine failure (lol) - and the oil pressure telltale light would go on to give some warning.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HighBoostin330 View Post
As a side note of the oil squirters, Adam spoke something about the billet aluminum ones not having a check valve so it might not be good of cars that are dual purpose, DD and HPDE car? Someone elaborate on it?
I was also wondering this^
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Old 04-12-2010, 10:18 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by HighBoostin330 View Post
The 4 bolt oil pump is very interesting to me. I've only seen one picture of a 3 bolt pump and that was from the TCK pump. How does that 4 bolt oil pump buying work? Do I have to send in my oil pump and have my car on a lift for a while or is this a core exchange? I assume your source does a overhaul of the oil pump to like new condition and operation then add on the 4 bolt oil pump shaft? What is this hardening of the oil pump that McSpeed is speaking about? Ideally, I'd like to get this oil system issue taken care of once and for all so I can go back on the track with the piece of mind that my engine won't end its life on the track.
It's a brand new OEM pump that's been modified, so there's no down time. You can keep your original pump. This one has 3 bolts in a triangle and then one in the center.
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Old 04-12-2010, 10:26 PM   #15
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It's a brand new OEM pump that's been modified, so there's no down time. You can keep your original pump. This one has 3 bolts in a triangle and then one in the center.
Awesome to know. I'll contact you later this year to have that built for me. Any idea on those billet oil squirters and how they might negatively affect cars that do double duty as DD and HPDE cars?
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Old 04-12-2010, 10:26 PM   #16
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Wonder if there'd enough interest around here for an upgraded oil pump group buy?
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Old 04-12-2010, 10:32 PM   #17
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Awesome to know. I'll contact you later this year to have that built for me. Any idea on those billet oil squirters and how they might negatively affect cars that do double duty as DD and HPDE cars?
As you already mentioned, I believe they don't have check valves in them so they're always going to be open, lowering your oil pressure at idle. I'm not sure how big of an effect that would have, Adam/Pei330 or Bimmerworld would probably be your best contacts to answer that question. Jimmy Oberg also posted a link to some European made billet oil squirters a few months back, IIRC.
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Old 04-12-2010, 11:20 PM   #18
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Wonder if there'd enough interest around here for an upgraded oil pump group buy?
I might be but I'm undecided between the admittedly over-the-top Bimmerworld dual pickup pump and the TC Kline-type toughened up stock one. Here are my thoughts so far:

The Bimmerworld pump doesn't seem to need a baffle*, even for extreme track use, and provides increased oil pressure at all times - which sounds good if you have an oil cooled turbo and are thinking about an oil cooler. But is it still overkill for a car that doesn't live at the track? Maybe.

The toughened stock pump is a lot less expensive and obviously works fine for vaio who puts his car through the ringer. And he has an oil cooler. Plus his pump is either based on, or equivalent to, the TC Kline pump which everyone liked until they stopped selling it for no reason. On the track, this type of pump benefits from a baffle which is usually welded into the oil pan, but I don't think it's necessarily required if you overfill the oil.

Once I get the gauges in and head to Limerock I'll know more about my oil situation and take it from there.

EDIT: *it comes with its own very large baffle - see picture on site
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Old 04-13-2010, 12:22 AM   #19
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Awesome to know. I'll contact you later this year to have that built for me. Any idea on those billet oil squirters and how they might negatively affect cars that do double duty as DD and HPDE cars?
I saw low oil pressure with the car idling while it was warm, the reason was the oil squirters. The billet ones don't have a check valve in them that closes with lower volume to keep oil pressure higher at idle.

I really don't think it's an issue unless you are going to spend a lot of time above 6k.

BTW, to replace all 6 oil squirters, you'll have to pull the crankshaft.
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Old 04-13-2010, 07:27 PM   #20
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I saw low oil pressure with the car idling while it was warm, the reason was the oil squirters. The billet ones don't have a check valve in them that closes with lower volume to keep oil pressure higher at idle.
What do you consider low oil pressure? My 15psi oil pressure warning light comes on at idle once the oil is hot.
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